A reminder to the board bashers

[I should coco]

He has repeatedly said that Lenny and Holmes will be much better next season after having a full pre season with us and working on the right kind of fitness and conditioning.

He may or may not be proved right but coming into a team from outside the set up, halfway through a season is not easy for any player.

What is with all this reasonable and considered bollocks?

We have seen several minutes of both Leonard and Holmes and the final decision is that they are crap. There can be no way back and clearly CW was duped by KM, when he said he was happy he'd got his targets.

We should have bought more expensive players as they are obviously better. Like say Assambalonga or Rhodes or Madine.

Everyone knows that if you 'buy league one players you end up in league one'

#spendsummoneh

 

[Revolution]

What is with all this reasonable and considered bollocks?

We have seen several minutes of both Leonard and Holmes and the final decision is that they are crap. There can be no way back and clearly CW was duped by KM, when he said he was happy he'd got his targets.

We should have bought more expensive players as they are obviously better. Like say Assambalonga or Rhodes or Madine.

Everyone knows that if you 'buy league one players you end up in league one'

#spendsummoneh

I don't think anyone is saying Holmes is crap. Most people are wondering when we will actually get to see him play.

 

[Maidenhead]

Wilder's thought along the same lines and who can blame him.
If he isn't supported in the summer and another more ambitious club comes along and says we will support you in the transfer market no-one could blame him for walking away.

A more "ambitious" club wouldn't entertain the thought of Wilder as a manager.

They'd be more "ambitious" in that choice too.

Many of our fans overate Wilder's standing in the game.

He has only ever managed in the lower leagues with low budget clubs and given the way our season has tailed off in the last 5 months his stock is hardly rising.

Rightly or wrongly even our own fans are criticising his January signings, and they were the signings that he had been chasing since the summer, hardly a sound platform for an "ambitious" club.

I love Wilder to bits but he is hardly the worlds most sought after manager, as some on here would have us believe.

Fans of other "ambitious" clubs would be totally underwhelmed when their "ambitious" board named CW as their leader.

I believe that so long as our board are honest with Chris then he will be here for the long term.

The fly is that we don't know how honest the board have been with him, although I do get the impression that he is very close to McCabe.

 

[LJBlade]

I don't think anyone is saying Holmes is crap. Most people are wondering when we will actually get to see him play.

There's been at least a few on here say that both Holmes and Leonard are crap

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

The board could ask why our recruitment and development of young attacking players who can shoot has been so poor in recent years then do something about it. Instead they do nowt but watch as it goes on year after year with unhealthy priorities elsewhere.

Our attacking line up up front yesterday was embarrassingly old and inept and if we have no good young uns coming through who can help fill a situation like that we are in a poor state and some at the club should take responsibility for it and act.

but the academy is the future

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

As I've already said every season in the championship half the teams fork out 20 million plus but only 3 can succeed in going up so to say it's only United failing is way off the mark . IF Fulham fail to win the play offs they will have blown 120 m in each of the past 2 seasons. Which will be over 200m more than we can if Boro fail 150 m goes up the spout and villa 140m and only 1 of those 3 might go up

and some say we're not doing well?

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

I apologise profusely I only looked at BL accounts. You are totally correct. There's only one twat in this conversation.

I've missed this and now wonder if our financial position is actually worse than I thought.

Sorry again.

Shit

 

[South Bucks]

but the academy is the future

True but our academy has been running for a good number of years now but up front we've only produced Calvert Lewin and Brooks. It should be doing better but of the stars its produces they seem to be mainly defenders. The balance doesn't seem right to me.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

We apparently bid £4m for Conor Coady.
A player we once had on loan and failed to sign permanently , though his quality was patently obvious.
Another sign of our ineptitude.
However I am not paid to scout players.
Wilder is.
And his mantra is "Don't get players in for the sake of it - they have to be better than what's already here".
They have to IMPROVE , not just bolster the squad.
Brave words for a man on a tight budget.
Or is it bluster to cover for his potless co-owners ?
I give you James Wilson , Ricky Holmes , Ryan Leonard , Lee Evans , John Lundstrom , Nathan Thomas & Ben Heneghan.
Are any of them anywhere near Coutts level ?
Or Fleck ?
Or Duffy ?
So why bring em in ?
How can this club "move forward" if the co-owners are more interested in a private cockfight than stumping up to back their manager , ultimately making his words sound hollow.

So why bring em in ?

Perhaps the answer is that they are the best we can afford?

 

[blade too long]

Some odd players like Coady will slip through the net . But all we can do is make an offer .if its not accepted we have to move on.
In fifty years of watching us we've never been blessed with funds to get players.
AND the one time we do who did Warnock pay our record fee for ,bleeding Claude Davies. Our first ever 1m buy lasted 8 minutes and weve been retisent to spend since

 

[Davalon]

What all this comes down is, not for the first time in our glorious history, those who own the club do not have the means to compete financially with many teams in the same division and therefore we have not had, and will not get, the level of funding that would make it more likely that we could get another promotion.

This is more than a little disappointing given the mantra from the Prince's people that serious investment would come from him after promotion. One wonders whether the amount he was prepared to invest will buy you a lot less than it would have had we been promoted a couple of years earlier. Or perhaps he's holding out because of the current kerfuffle between him and McCabe.

Nothing ever changes. Oh well. Fingers crossed Wilder has a better summer transfer window than his January one.

Simple sensible sound words.

Bet you don't get the likes you deserve though. Not critical or angry enough, or overly blindly faithful.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Simple sensible sound words.

Bet you don't get the likes you deserve though. Not critical or angry enough, or overly blindly faithful.

It's getting to be a trend on here. Something needs doing about it....

 

[Davalon]

It's getting to be a trend on here. Something needs doing about it....

I've stopped starting threads as I got fed up of people with different opinions or jovial quips ruining them.

Police cuts by the Racist Tory government are really coming home to roost everywhere.

 

[I should coco]

I don't think anyone is saying Holmes is crap

Have you read the 'Out' thread.

Some of our fans are gathering a mob to chase Holmes. Leonard. Lundstram. Heneghan and other out of town with sticks.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Have you read the 'Out' thread.

Some of our fans are gathering a mob to chase Holmes. Leonard. Lundstram. Heneghan and other out of town with sticks.

But just stopping shy of outing Wilder as useless as well. Just in case. It must now be assumed he was lying (again!) when he said he would only bring in players better than what we had.

 

[I should coco]

It must now be assumed he was lying (again!) when he said he would only bring in players better than what we had.

Yes, he lied about Ched and it looks like he lied again.

When we do spend big we want a foreign manager with a catchy name and who is mates with a big agent. That way we will be able to get loads of great players in who don't give a shit about tradition or the club, or indeed the fans.

Wolves-lite; bring it on!

 

[Darthblade]

Well guys ...... when you've finished shaking pitchforks at each other ......

I really don't think its necessary to be "spunkin" £40m at a promotion bid with Tufty in charge, because we have seen what £10m CAN buy you and it can be very disappointing.

The key is a sensible budget, sensibly spent on a FEW quality players, rather than the scattergun approach of many average players.

We are at the stage now where we need some quality in key areas in order to improve ........ I think Tufty knows that and many others have recognised that.

I would suggest that 4 quality players in key positions next summer would put us in a strong position to mount a realistic assault on the play-offs, as we would have more depth in the squad which is what was lacking this season and ultimately cost us a play-off place.

The elephant in the room is the Board room stand-off. Whilst they are playing "who can piss highest up the wall", we are unlikely to get a sensible budget which will allow Tufty to compete at this level.

It all rests upon the Board sorting themselves out ........ QUICKLY !!

UTB & FTP

 

[Maidenhead]

Well guys ...... when you've finished shaking pitchforks at each other ......

I really don't think its necessary to be "spunkin" £40m at a promotion bid with Tufty in charge, because we have seen what £10m CAN buy you and it can be very disappointing.

The key is a sensible budget, sensibly spent on a FEW quality players, rather than the scattergun approach of many average players.

We are at the stage now where we need some quality in key areas in order to improve ........ I think Tufty knows that and many others have recognised that.

I would suggest that 4 quality players in key positions next summer would put us in a strong position to mount a realistic assault on the play-offs, as we would have more depth in the squad which is what was lacking this season and ultimately cost us a play-off place.

The elephant in the room is the Board room stand-off. Whilst they are playing "who can piss highest up the wall", we are unlikely to get a sensible budget which will allow Tufty to compete at this level.

It all rests upon the Board sorting themselves out ........ QUICKLY !!

UTB & FTP

One mans' sensible is another mans' unambitious.

That's a bit of an open ended comment without your definition of sensible

 

[Darthblade]

One mans' sensible is another mans' unambitious.

That's a bit of an open ended comment without your definition of sensible

Fair point mate .......

Well ..... to give it a go on the definition of sensible, in this context

I would say its "sensible" if the budget doesn't endanger the financial future of the Club, but allows a sufficient degree of freedom to the manager to bring in, say 4 quality players who are measurably better than what we currently have in the first team ( not the squad)

that will still be substantially less than many other Clubs, but gives Tufty a fighting chance of delivering the goods .......

UTB & FTP

 

[Sean Thornton]

Fair point mate .......

Well ..... to give it a go on the definition of sensible, in this context

I would say its "sensible" if the budget doesn't endanger the financial future of the Club, but allows a sufficient degree of freedom to the manager to bring in, say 4 quality players who are measurably better than what we currently have in the first team ( not the squad)

that will still be substantially less than many other Clubs, but gives Tufty a fighting chance of delivering the goods .......

UTB & FTP

It could be that the legal wrangling could scupper any budget CW has been promised. Both owners covered the losses equally ( and the Prince loaned the club £3m last season, being paid back at least in part) with the likelihood that losses will have to be covered by just one man, unless there are others waiting in the wings.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

There's been at least a few on here say that both Holmes and Leonard are crap

I’m one of them, particularly on Holmes, although could be convinced on Leonard, although I do think we're unbalanced in the type of midfielder we have on our books.

To my limited mindset, you don’t buy a 30 yr old L1 player, with the CV of Holmes for the future. You buy him because he's playing way below his abilities & deserves a higher stage. For whatever reason he’s sat on the bench since January, during a period of time when players have been injured, creativity lacking & results snatched. Even if he plays 180 minutes between now and the end of season, which he won't, he's been a complete waste of time & money to date. By the time the season starts he'll be 31, still unproven at this level and roughly 30% the way through his contract. People at the club now saying that he's one for next season sounds like spin and face saving, as does Leonard being a future championship level CB. We needed players to be brought in the JTW to hit the ground running & make a difference, they weren't. We now need players to come in a hit the ground running in August, those players need to be at worst players who've played at this level before, if not higher.

 

[Deaneandagana]

What all this comes down is, not for the first time in our glorious history, those who own the club do not have the means to compete financially with many teams in the same division and therefore we have not had, and will not get, the level of funding that would make it more likely that we could get another promotion.

This is more than a little disappointing given the mantra from the Prince's people that serious investment would come from him after promotion. One wonders whether the amount he was prepared to invest will buy you a lot less than it would have had we been promoted a couple of years earlier. Or perhaps he's holding out because of the current kerfuffle between him and McCabe.

Nothing ever changes. Oh well. Fingers crossed Wilder has a better summer transfer window than his January one.

Nice post, well executed, succinct, factual & to the point.

There is one issue though, which has been the root cause of much of this debate, namely the sound bytes issued by both McCabe, the Prince and their various advisors - comments such as the now infamous GCI, additional investment when we reach the Championship, there might be one special signing etc etc.

Now before the thread content police jump down my throat regarding who & when & in what context, the fact remains that these comments were made by the club owners or their representatives, resulting in heightened expectation levels & the subsequent levels of frustration now being experienced.

After all just where has the munneh gone?

 

[I should coco]

After all just where has the munneh gone?

Yawn....

#Wagesdon'tcount

#Moneytreepayswages

 

[Revolution]

Yawn....

#Wagesdon'tcount

#Moneytreepayswages

Yes, they've put money in. But not as much (yet) as they suggested they would. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the statements made when the Prince came in re finance that would be available in this division haven't been backed up.

And if they don't have that money, they shouldn't have said those things.

 

[I should coco]

Yes, they've put money in. But not as much (yet) as they suggested they would. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the statements made when the Prince came in re finance that would be available in this division haven't been backed up.

And if they don't have that money, they shouldn't have said those things.

I can't argue with any of that. Silly comments and a hostage to fortune.

My point is the classic addition of all transfer sales plus Kyle/Harry sell ons less transfer spend gives a 'surplus'. Chuck in the semi finals money and we are rolling in it.

Wages aren't sexy so are conveniently ignored, but there is a reason why nearly every club outside the Premier loses money and it is not net transfer spend.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Nice post, well executed, succinct, factual & to the point.

There is one issue though, which has been the root cause of much of this debate, namely the sound bytes issued by both McCabe, the Prince and their various advisors - comments such as the now infamous GCI, additional investment when we reach the Championship, there might be one special signing etc etc.

Now before the thread content police jump down my throat regarding who & when & in what context, the fact remains that these comments were made by the club owners or their representatives, resulting in heightened expectation levels & the subsequent levels of frustration now being experienced.

After all just where has the munneh gone?

I'm always surprised when those who have constantly berated McCabe and latterly the Prince and Jim Phipps for making such statements ((based understandably on past actions and perceived lack of investment) are all of a sudden taken in by " game changing investment" and "think Liverpool" type claims, as if the past they have previously based their claims on hadn't happened.

As a staunch clapper, I certainly didn't get excited about any of it and was a little bit angry actually, when Jim seemed to suggest that not taking money out was actually additional investment. So my expectations weren't heightened at all. Anyone now claiming "told you so" who fell for it in anyway shape or form ought to be sent to join the other "guiilible fools" who they blame for the mess.

Quite a few admit to it and miss the irony therein.

 

[LJBlade]

Yes, they've put money in. But not as much (yet) as they suggested they would. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the statements made when the Prince came in re finance that would be available in this division haven't been backed up.

And if they don't have that money, they shouldn't have said those things.

How much have they put in? How much did they say they would put in?

 

[Lawrence]

Spending money does not guarantee success but it’s virtually impossible in the modern game to get promoted from the Championship without spending big money. I can’t think of the last team that managed it.

We didn’t need to spend big money in January... well depends on what United think is big mone? Is 7 to 10million big money? No fear United will never spend that, it’s too much for United without a nose bleed

 

[Keen Blade]

Some odd players like Coady will slip through the net . But all we can do is make an offer .if its not accepted we have to move on.
In fifty years of watching us we've never been blessed with funds to get players.
AND the one time we do who did Warnock pay our record fee for ,bleeding Claude Davies. Our first ever 1m buy lasted 8 minutes and weve been retisent to spend since

Sorry but we paid £4m for James Beattie and he scored plenty of goals to put us in a position to challenge for a quick return to the Prem. A decent buy , he was.
Unfortunately some shortsighted bloke with short arms & deep pockets told us he had the flu , but really he had sold him in a panic , for less than half his price , just in time for the goals he would have scored against Burnley in May 2009 to cost us 8 years in the bleeding wilderness.

 

[Revolution]

Sorry but we paid £4m for James Beattie and he scored plenty of goals to put us in a position to challenge for a quick return to the Prem. A decent buy , he was.
Unfortunately some shortsighted bloke with short arms & deep pockets told us he had the flu , but really he had sold him in a panic , for less than half his price , just in time for the goals he would have scored against Burnley in May 2009 to cost us 8 years in the bleeding wilderness.

Beattie saved newly promoted Stoke from relegation that year. They managed to extend their stay in the PL by another 10 years. Good business....