87 points needed....play offs it is!

[Darthblade]

Who/when would you have signed differently?

I would have signed another striker with pace and strength in the summer, plus another striker in September when it became crystal clear that we were struggling to score. Would also have signed a dominant CH to replace Harry and a powerful CM to stop us being overpowered in midfield.
We had too much quantity and not enough quality in the Summer imho.
UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

Really, you think Scougal, Wallace and Alcock have proven they can't play at this level?
hmmm, I think I may need to find Tommy Lee Jones again. This board gets more fickle and knee jerk by the day.

None of those three have made any impression on the Division this season. Scougal, for example, did well last year, however, the opposition have discovered that they can pick him up and chuck him about and referees don't care at this level.
Not the players that's the problem ..... its the Division that's the issue, but you have to get out of it.
UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

I'm confused where the Bible comes in. Or do you just mean that the failure will be large and unpleasant? Like what I just did in th... wait no I won't finish that.

That's exactly what I mean .... we will all be frustrated because we SHOULD have been able to compete for top two, with our resources, however, failed spectacularly. hence frustration .....
UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

It's nice to see the inner workings of fantasy fandom.

Frustrated on a "biblical" scale? Mmmmm, let me see, as much as I love my team, there are many, many more things that I'd find frustrating, but I guess it all depends on the significance you attach to football.

Can you give me a detailed breakdown of how you arrive at this idea of "cheap"? In relative terms Done was "cheap", but how does this reflect on the fact that he's delivered in a manner way beyond his recent valuation. If you mean spend big, by this division's standards that is, then since when does this promise to deliver what I assume you're inferring? Chelsea spent big on Fernando Torres, now that was a stupid roll of the dice, wasn't it?

Overall, in the time that Clough's been in charge, we're in a far healthier position than we have been. I can see positives, you seem unable to, doesn't that just prove it's all about opinions?

Absolutely its about opinions ... yes.
By cheap, I mean we have avoided spending with the majority of players we brought in initially.
I have never advocated that we spend a shit load of money in this Division as it isn't / shouldn't be necessary. Look at the sides at the top, both this season and last ( excluding Wolves). Hardly packed full of household names and England internationals. Just hard working, strong consistent players who can dominate this Division.
That is why we can play against Premiership sides but not against Division 1 sides ( up until recently ). Little pace, no strength in midfield, no dominant CH.

Yes, NC is taking us in the right direction, but I still do not believe that he was given the promised financial support at the start of the season when it was needed. Its only since the arrival of Done, Brayford and Coutts that we have begun to improve in the League. They have brought an element pace and strength plus a striker who CAN score. What we need now is another striker who can score, a dominant CH and Wallace to divorce the physio !!
UTB & FTP

 

[itsinyerblood]

Absolutely its about opinions ... yes.
By cheap, I mean we have avoided spending with the majority of players we brought in initially.
I have never advocated that we spend a shit load of money in this Division as it isn't / shouldn't be necessary. Look at the sides at the top, both this season and last ( excluding Wolves). Hardly packed full of household names and England internationals. Just hard working, strong consistent players who can dominate this Division.
That is why we can play against Premiership sides but not against Division 1 sides ( up until recently ). Little pace, no strength in midfield, no dominant CH.

Yes, NC is taking us in the right direction, but I still do not believe that he was given the promised financial support at the start of the season when it was needed. Its only since the arrival of Done, Brayford and Coutts that we have begun to improve in the League. They have brought an element pace and strength plus a striker who CAN score. What we need now is another striker who can score, a dominant CH and Wallace to divorce the physio !!
UTB & FTP

Darth, in essence we're not that far apart. Done has been a revelation, at least for me. I also hope that Wallace can emerge from the physio's grip, as he could be pivotal alongside Coutts in controlling the midfield. There's also Flo, mustn't forget him. I suspect Clough see's potential in the guy so he's hanging on for Flo to deliver. Yes, someone like COG (a bit obvious I know) to supplement Done, and a strong, versatile central defender would be a great addition too.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

That's exactly what I mean .... we will all be frustrated because we SHOULD have been able to compete for top two, with our resources, however, failed spectacularly. hence frustration .....
UTB & FTP

Ahha - the manic depressives are still alive and kicking.

17 games still to play - far from over.

UTB

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

None of those three have made any impression on the Division this season. Scougal, for example, did well last year, however, the opposition have discovered that they can pick him up and chuck him about and referees don't care at this level.
Not the players that's the problem ..... its the Division that's the issue, but you have to get out of it.
UTB & FTP

I disagree entirely. He may very well be suffering from second season syndrome but as a young player you have to give him time to play through it and work it out. Its nonsense to write him off at this level because he's not set the league alight. Scougal impressed last season, therefore it's just as likely that he will again, than he'll sink without a trace.

 

[mattbianco1]

I would have signed another striker with pace and strength in the summer, plus another striker in September when it became crystal clear that we were struggling to score. Would also have signed a dominant CH to replace Harry and a powerful CM to stop us being overpowered in midfield.
We had too much quantity and not enough quality in the Summer imho.
UTB & FTP

Just to counter that.

We brought in a lot of players over the summer and NC was figuring out his best team - Alcock at CH, Davies at RB, Basham in midfield. McEveley at LB, Higdon as 1st choice CF etc. the list is endless. Not to mention the injuries to Davies, Alcock and Wallace.

Other than Brayford, Coutts and Done spine of the team we have now is the same as what we have had all season. Adams, K. Wallace and Freeman are all backup players at present.

We looked to bring in a striker and have been linked with Chris O'Grady since June/July time. Also been heavily linked with Mason Bennett (which fell through at an unfortunate time) and Steve Davies. For whatever reason Higdon hasn't worked out as good as we would have liked, nobody was to know that. In fact, who would've thought after the Bristol City game at the start of the season that Higdon would've been so disappointing - he had a good game but was clearly not match fit.

The CH you crave could've been Butler. But he, for whatever reason fell out with NC and moved on and McEveley/Basham pairing is fine.

The powerful CM is James Wallace, he has been injured all season. NC knew this was an issue and tinkered with multiple variants in midfield and ultimately signed Coutts.

NC has learnt now that he has a spine to his team...

Howard
Brayford Basham McEveley Harris
Doyle
RM CM Coutts Murphy
Done
​

Take out the January signings, we weren't far off. We just needed consistency. Had he played with this spine all season, I think we would be in touching distance of 2nd, however for reasons stated above, it wasn't to be.

Howard
Flynn Basham McEveley Harris
Doyle
RM CM Wallace Murphy
McNulty​

The main reason we haven't succeeded (so far) has been an inconsistency in teams.

 

[grafikhaus]

We won 10 in a row this time last season but yeah people needs to curb their enthusiasm

Seven, actually. (Match 27 to 34 inc.)

 

[mattbianco1]

Seven, actually. (Match 27 to 34 inc.)

It was 10 in all competitions wasn't it. That included Fulham, Charlton & Forest

 

[davidpinder]

The way i see it, win the 2 games in hand on MK dons and we will sit 5 points behind them with there massive goal difference we need to better them by 2 wins. That leaves Swindon 1 game in hand on them then that would leave us 6 points behind them and with there similar goal difference to MK we need to better there results by 2 wins and a draw. Looking at fixtures i'd say this will be tough but doable, where is the bbc predictor when you need it???

 

[Kenilworth]

It was 10 in all competitions wasn't it. That included Fulham, Charlton & Forest

Just twigged - Kim Bauer in 24 - that's been bugging me for ages
v pretty girl

 

[blade too long]

So MK Dons have tough games vs. Preston, Doncaster, Oldham, Doncaster and Swindon

Swindon - Doncaster, MK Dons, Bristol C & Preston

Preston (who I don't believe have a chance of the top 2 anyway) - Oldham, Donny, MK, Bristol City & Swindon.

Makes our run-in look nice doesn't it

part of my argument is the others have better records so far as they have not played all rheir toughest games yet saying they will all carry on getting more points is impossible as they will be stopping each other

 

[GreasyChipBeattie]

Bold denotes home games,
Red denotes top 9 teams, included 9th (Bradford) due to their games in hand.

Swindon:
Crawley, Bradford, Crewe, Gillingham, Notts County, Port Vale, Doncaster, Colchester, MK Dons, Bristol City, Peterborough, Rochdale, Yeovil, Walsall, Preston, Leyton Orient.

MK Dons:
Peterborough, Coventry, Chesterfield, Preston, Walsall, Oldham, Notts County, Doncaster, Swindon, Scunthorpe, Port Vale, Fleetwood, Leyton Orient, Rochdale, Yeovil

Preston
Scunthorpe, Walsall, Oldham, Doncaster, MK Dons, Crewe, Peterborough, Barnsley, Fleetwood, Rochdale, Bradford, Bristol City, Gillingham, Port Vale, Swindon, Colchester.

I don't fancy our chances if it goes down to the last day!

 

[Darthblade]

I disagree entirely. He may very well be suffering from second season syndrome but as a young player you have to give him time to play through it and work it out. Its nonsense to write him off at this level because he's not set the league alight. Scougal impressed last season, therefore it's just as likely that he will again, than he'll sink without a trace.

Well we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I would be happy to have Scougal in the squad in the Championship / Premiership but not in this agricultural Division. This season he's been a waste of a shirt as he hasn't contributed in what has been a "lightweight" midfield until the last few games.
UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

Darth, in essence we're not that far apart. Done has been a revelation, at least for me. I also hope that Wallace can emerge from the physio's grip, as he could be pivotal alongside Coutts in controlling the midfield. There's also Flo, mustn't forget him. I suspect Clough see's potential in the guy so he's hanging on for Flo to deliver. Yes, someone like COG (a bit obvious I know) to supplement Done, and a strong, versatile central defender would be a great addition too.

Agreed ..... Done has been the pace and finishing we have needed upfront since the first day of the season, but its taken FAR too long for either;
a) the management to realise it, or more likely
b) the promised financial support to be released to NC

All the things were debating here though, have been pretty obvious to most supporters for the majority of what can only be described as an "underperforming" season ..... but we've only begun to address the issues in mid January !! That is my annoyance with the Club .....
UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

Just to counter that.

We brought in a lot of players over the summer and NC was figuring out his best team - Alcock at CH, Davies at RB, Basham in midfield. McEveley at LB, Higdon as 1st choice CF etc. the list is endless. Not to mention the injuries to Davies, Alcock and Wallace.

Other than Brayford, Coutts and Done spine of the team we have now is the same as what we have had all season. Adams, K. Wallace and Freeman are all backup players at present.

We looked to bring in a striker and have been linked with Chris O'Grady since June/July time. Also been heavily linked with Mason Bennett (which fell through at an unfortunate time) and Steve Davies. For whatever reason Higdon hasn't worked out as good as we would have liked, nobody was to know that. In fact, who would've thought after the Bristol City game at the start of the season that Higdon would've been so disappointing - he had a good game but was clearly not match fit.

The CH you crave could've been Butler. But he, for whatever reason fell out with NC and moved on and McEveley/Basham pairing is fine.

The powerful CM is James Wallace, he has been injured all season. NC knew this was an issue and tinkered with multiple variants in midfield and ultimately signed Coutts.

NC has learnt now that he has a spine to his team...

Howard
Brayford Basham McEveley Harris
Doyle
RM CM Coutts Murphy
Done
​

Take out the January signings, we weren't far off. We just needed consistency. Had he played with this spine all season, I think we would be in touching distance of 2nd, however for reasons stated above, it wasn't to be.

Howard
Flynn Basham McEveley Harris
Doyle
RM CM Wallace Murphy
McNulty​

The main reason we haven't succeeded (so far) has been an inconsistency in teams.

We did sign lots in the summer but many have commented that we seemed to go for quantity rather than quality, which has made the job of selecting a consistent, performing first 11 very difficult for NC, since many of our players don't seem to fit in too well to either this agricultural division and / or our chosen formation.
Our midfield has been too lightweight all season ( upto the last few weeks) and we certainly haven't had the striker who is capable of playing the "lone striker" role ( COGs brief cameo excepted ).
As you say, the CB pairing of Basham / McEvely has been "fine", but not commanding and our dominant CM ( Wallace) is having a passionate affair with the physio's table. I think it became quite obvious very early in the season that Higdon was a lemon and that effectively we had little to offer upfront as we lacked mobility, strength and pace upfront. Bennet was always a red herring as he's a development player the same as McNuts.
The problem, for me, is that we have only just begun, in mid January, to address these pretty obvious shortcomings.
UTB & FTP

 

[mattbianco1]

The problem, for me, is that we have only just begun, in mid January, to address these pretty obvious shortcomings.
UTB & FTP

Are you aware of something called a "Transfer Window"?

 

[Darthblade]

Are you aware of something called a "Transfer Window"?

I'm fully aware of it yes.

There is one at the start of the season which we slept through, daydreaming that our toothless strikeforce and miniature midfield and leaky defence would suffice in this Division, which clearly was not the case and I believe that the evidence was there before the transfer window closed at the start of the season, that all was not going to go well.

We are now using the JTW to address what should have been addressed months ago imho.
UTB & FTP

 

[grafikhaus]

Agreed ..... Done has been the pace and finishing we have needed upfront since the first day of the season, but its taken FAR too long for either;
a) the management to realise it, or more likely
b) the promised financial support to be released to NC

or

c) As NC said the other night, he's been after Done since last season but 'If they don't want to sell, there's nothing you can do.'

 

[itsinyerblood]

I'm fully aware of it yes.

There is one at the start of the season which we slept through, daydreaming that our toothless strikeforce and miniature midfield and leaky defence would suffice in this Division, which clearly was not the case and I believe that the evidence was there before the transfer window closed at the start of the season, that all was not going to go well.

We are now using the JTW to address what should have been addressed months ago imho.
UTB & FTP

Darth, I realise how unhappy you are at what you think should have been addressed during the summer. Fortunately, for whatever reason, we have brought in players during the JTW who have helped improve the team. If you take the case of Done, he wasn't being allowed to leave Rochdale a month before our second enquiry, so I imagine it'll be the same with other transfer targets, including COG. Hyypia agreed to sell the player to United, got fired, and thus COG remained at Brighton. What can a team do other than enquire? We've been no different, we've sold when it might have been better to hold onto a player, but I guess financial constraints pushed a deal through. So all we can do is try.....one thing Clough is and that's persistent, so give the guy a break and applaud his efforts to bring in players who are clearly better than those we already have.

 

[Darthblade]

Darth, I realise how unhappy you are at what you think should have been addressed during the summer. Fortunately, for whatever reason, we have brought in players during the JTW who have helped improve the team. If you take the case of Done, he wasn't being allowed to leave Rochdale a month before our second enquiry, so I imagine it'll be the same with other transfer targets, including COG. Hyypia agreed to sell the player to United, got fired, and thus COG remained at Brighton. What can a team do other than enquire? We've been no different, we've sold when it might have been better to hold onto a player, but I guess financial constraints pushed a deal through. So all we can do is try.....one thing Clough is and that's persistent, so give the guy a break and applaud his efforts to bring in players who are clearly better than those we already have.

Point taken .... and please don't mistake my frustration for lack of support for either the team or NC. I do fully support NC and I think that the signings in the JTW have changed us from mid-table obscurity to possible play-off contenders, although I don't always agree with / understand some of his team selections / tactics.
It is clear that he obviously has some long-term targets ( COG / Done / Brayford / Coutts / etc ) however, I do think that much more could have been done ( no pun intended) in the short term ( via loan deals ), to address obvious and serious ongoing issues that have been holding us back since early in the season, whilst he pursues his long-term targets on permanent transfers.
I admire his persistence and agree that he should only buy the right players and if necessary has to wait for the opportunity to sign them when available, as with Brayford. However, we should have, imho, used the loan market to solve the problems in midfield, upfront and in defence, whilst we waited for the right players to be available to buy permanently. That way we would not be playing "catch up" now that our squad is improving.
This is why I'm sceptical about whether the financial support WAS available to him earlier in the season, to use the loan market. The issue for me is that this has certainly been a poor quality Division this year, none of the teams are outstanding in quality and we should have been able to compete for a top two place this year, if resources had been available early in the season.
UTB & FTP

 

[mattbianco1]

I'm fully aware of it yes.

There is one at the start of the season which we slept through, daydreaming that our toothless strikeforce and miniature midfield and leaky defence would suffice in this Division, which clearly was not the case and I believe that the evidence was there before the transfer window closed at the start of the season, that all was not going to go well.

We are now using the JTW to address what should have been addressed months ago imho.
UTB & FTP

Wow. Just, wow.

Surely the aim of any transfer window is to improve your squad from what you have. We improved the squad considerably in the summer and have done again in January. Why are you trying to put a negative spin on a positive JTW?

There's a Man City equivelent of you somewhere questioning why they're not top... Oh that's right because they should've signed Bony in August

Dear me.

 

[longinthe toothblade]

you're not taking into account that they all have to play each other. so someone will drop points if not both. we don't have to play any of them.

We can still drop points though!!!

 

[Darthblade]

Wow. Just, wow.

Surely the aim of any transfer window is to improve your squad from what you have. We improved the squad considerably in the summer and have done again in January. Why are you trying to put a negative spin on a positive JTW?

There's a Man City equivelent of you somewhere questioning why they're not top... Oh that's right because they should've signed Bony in August

Dear me.

Well ..... the majority of Blades I know were in no doubt, back in Sept / Oct that we would struggle to score goals. This has proven to be true. We did not address this until mid January ...... I don't see why you're getting so twitchy about this point .......
UTB & FTP

 

[super_pig]

yeah we've blown autos now
not bothered really.. we ll win the playoffs this time

 

[longinthe toothblade]

The way i see it, win the 2 games in hand on MK dons and we will sit 5 points behind them with there massive goal difference we need to better them by 2 wins. That leaves Swindon 1 game in hand on them then that would leave us 6 points behind them and with there similar goal difference to MK we need to better there results by 2 wins and a draw. Looking at fixtures i'd say this will be tough but doable, where is the bbc predictor when you need it???

Are you being serious or taking the piss here???

 

[longinthe toothblade]

part of my argument is the others have better records so far as they have not played all rheir toughest games yet saying they will all carry on getting more points is impossible as they will be stopping each other

........and what about us? Even if they do all drop points, which can easily happen, what makes you so sure that we won't either? It's not just the top teams in the league that can turn you over. Was Coventry a tough game on paper? Gillingham? Barnsley at home [remember]?

If we play again like we did for 75 minutes on Saturday we could drop points anywhere.

 

[blade too long]

........and what about us? Even if they do all drop points, which can easily happen, what makes you so sure that we won't either? It's not just the top teams in the league that can turn you over. Was Coventry a tough game on paper? Gillingham? Barnsley at home [remember]?

If we play again like we did for 75 minutes on Saturday we could drop points anywhere.

its that sending offs apart we have the easiest run in on paper , avoiding damaging head to heads and are now topping the current form charts on a regular basis , which is key

http://www.footballformguide.net/form/sky-bet-league-1

 

[longinthe toothblade]

its that sending offs apart we have the easiest run in on paper , avoiding damaging head to heads and are now topping the current form charts on a regular basis , which is key

http://www.footballformguide.net/form/sky-bet-league-1

Yes I do get that [some of it] but the easiest run in on paper "doesn't amount to a hill o' beans" if we don't turn up. There is 16 games left and at this stage of the season "there are no easy games for anybody".