500k for adams

[raul]

Alco, why are you hagning everything on the fact he got a promotion with a newly-relegated club that rinsed all it's debts out 8 years ago? Why is such a gifted individual bimbling around a bankrupt club in Burslem?

Is he really worth 500k compo when we cant afford that on a player?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

[/COLOR]

Adams took a team up from the championship. SOD has one treading water with 7,000 fans getting nosebleeds with the excitement of it.

UTB

Wasn't he also part of the team that took them down from the Premiership, bailed on £20 Million of debt and brought them back having no points punishment only to be sacked when he was about to take them down again?

How did he do at Coventry we half decent backing?

I'm not saying SoD will be without issue but his recent record is far superior to Adams who is currently working in League Two for a reason. He isn't some up and coming manager learning his trade he is at the level his record deserves. I hope his brings Port Vale through the leagues and into the Championship playing champagne football because at that stage he should be considered for our job.

 

[JohnDenver]

I really doubt he would cost much to prise away from a div2 club. £500k seems a nonsense figure.

As for style, I'll reserve judgement, but the times I've seen his teams they gave me the impression of big lads and brutal football.

That said, it's worse to be playing pretty stuff in front of empty div1 stadia than allow someone to keep us up by hook or by crook. So long as we try to build a passing style throughout the club from next season I'm happy.

 

[Micalijo]

Which he shouldn't say if they weren't. Adams should understand why a League 2 manager who has a poor recent record at Championship level isn't first choice compared with SoD.

Quite right - I don't think Adams would give a toss if he was 15th on our list.

 

[alcoblade]

Wasn't he also part of the team that took them down from the Premiership, bailed on £20 Million of debt and brought them back having no points punishment only to be sacked when he was about to take them down again?

How did he do at Coventry we half decent backing?

I'm not saying SoD will be without issue but his recent record is far superior to Adams who is currently working in League Two for a reason. He isn't some up and coming manager learning his trade he is at the level his record deserves. I hope his brings Port Vale through the leagues and into the Championship playing champagne football because at that stage he should be considered for our job.

"his recent record is far superior" - treading water for 2- 3 years in front of 7,000 worshiping fans. Hmmm....

I disagree about the relative achievements but you've clearly marked Doncaster's manager as some kind of maestro and it seems doubtful I can dissuade you (not that I want to, I'd happily take him too). But you digress. You're demanding that the club explain why they've failed to land a manager at the same time as appointing someone else. If you're seriously expecting the club to openly state why they've had to settle for their number two, then you've lost it fella. Proof will come when Mic, Len and Olle line up to support your stance.

Personally I think history might judge this S'OD love fest with a tad of embarrassment.

UTB

 

[Rustyblade]

It's all a bit bald men fighting over a comb, isn't it?

I can only hope that the club has succeeded in keeping its cards close to its chest to the extent that at least someone of proven calibre has applied for the job. Otherwise it's going to be a rather painful reality check if it really is true that the very best we can hope for is a choice between O'Driscoll and Adams.

 

[Fiery Blade]

Surely, we as a championship club with a manager less than four months into a three year contract will receive far more compo from an international FA than both Doncaster and Port Vale are asking ie £500k or am I missing the point here!
Yes, perhaps it was a get out of jail free card but I am sure such financial illuminaries such as McCabe and Birch started the process off at around £ 1 million if not why not?

 

[alcoblade]

Surely, we as a championship club with a manager less than four months into a three year contract will receive far more compo from an international FA than both Doncaster and Port Vale are asking ie £500k or am I missing the point here!
Yes, perhaps it was a get out of jail free card but I am sure such financial illuminaries such as McCabe and Birch started the process off at around £ 1 million if not why not?

It's not just about compo though. It could be about having to pay for 10 backroom staff, sack and pay compensation to 10 of ours. It seems clear the club fancied SOD. If he doesn't come it's either because he didn't want to or we couldn't afford him. The facts of life are that we're broke. I can't see why some are getting so wound up about it. As stated above, it's not Wenger or Ferguson we're appointing.

UTB

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Warnock / McCabe got the club off it's arse and doubled its' supporter base. What mistakes should he have learned from?

They did and I see Adams possibly having the same immediate impact Warnock had but that's where it stops. Arguably we're no better off financially than we were in 1999 in terms of on the pitch investment and it's quite clear the team needs to be re-built on a shoestring and mainly from within. In order to carry out that plan, we need someone who has experience developing young talent and to be honest, there aren't that many out there as it's all about money these days. When you add in the experience required in this position and in this division, there was only one real candidate and that's O'Driscoll.

OK, Adams may turn us round short term but as I've said elsewhere, would he be in the frame for the 'long term strategy' if he wasn't a Blade, I very much doubt it. Football has moved on in the last 10 years and to me, McCabe, whilst he says the right things, seemingly hasn't and thinks we can build a successful team on passion and hard work. Ever since the disaster of relegation, he's made mistake after mistake and seems, if you believe the rumours, to be overruling Birch and going back to the tried and trusted Warnock approach.

 

[alcoblade]

It's all a bit bald men fighting over a comb, isn't it?

I can only hope that the club has succeeded in keeping its cards close to its chest to the extent that at least someone of proven calibre has applied for the job. Otherwise it's going to be a rather painful reality check if it really is true that the very best we can hope for is a choice between O'Driscoll and Adams.

If that becomes a reality check to some, you'd have to wonder where they've been for the last few yers...

UTB

 

[Rustyblade]

Maybe because these are the same financial luminaries that did so well to tie Cresswell down to a new three year deal?

 

[Micalijo]

"his recent record is far superior" - treading water for 2- 3 years in front of 7,000 worshiping fans. Hmmm....

I disagree about the relative achievements but you've clearly marked Doncaster's manager as some kind of maestro and it seems doubtful I can dissuade you (not that I want to, I'd happily take him too). But you digress. You're demanding that the club explain why they've failed to land a manager at the same time as appointing someone else. If you're seriously expecting the club to openly state why they've had to settle for their number two, then you've lost it fella. Proof will come when Mic, Len and Olle line up to support your stance.

Personally I think history might judge this S'OD love fest with a tad of embarrassment.

UTB

Why shouldn't they state it? Adams couldn't give a toss and I assume because he is meant to be a Blade will work for free. Birch very clearly wanted SOD - why then can't he say what happened. It might stop a few accusations of incompetence, not that I'd believe a word he says so pointless from my point of view.

I'm really surprised Alco that you still seem to think SOD should be doing better than what he is doing at Donny. I just cannot see your point. He's performed miracles as far as I can see.

 

[alcoblade]

They did and I see Adams possibly having the same immediate impact Warnock had but that's where it stops. Arguably we're no better off financially than we were in 1999 in terms of on the pitch investment and it's quite clear the team needs to be re-built on a shoestring and mainly from within. In order to carry out that plan, we need someone who has experience developing young talent and to be honest, there aren't that many out there as it's all about money these days. When you add in the experience required in this position and in this division, there was only one real candidate and that's O'Driscoll.

OK, Adams may turn us round short term but as I've said elsewhere, would he be in the frame for the 'long term strategy' if he wasn't a Blade, I very much doubt it. Football has moved on in the last 10 years and to me, McCabe, whilst he says the right things, seemingly hasn't and thinks we can build a successful team on passion and hard work. Ever since the disaster of relegation, he's made mistake after mistake and seems, if you believe the rumours, to be overruling Birch and going back to the tried and trusted Warnock approach.

How many home grown players are regulars in Doncaster's ranks? I don't know and stand to be corrected, but I don't think it's many at all.

UTB

---------- Post added at 10:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 AM ----------

Why shouldn't they state it? Adams couldn't give a toss and I assume because he is meant to be a Blade will work for free. Birch very clearly wanted SOD - why then can't he say what happened. It might stop a few accusations of incompetence, not that I'd believe a word he says so pointless from my point of view.

I'm really surprised Alco that you still seem to think SOD should be doing better than what he is doing at Donny. I just cannot see your point. He's performed miracles as far as I can see.

Another debate Mic. He's done OK and I'd take him. But I wont cry if we don't land him. Where's the complication? We know we're skint. I totally share your anger at why that is. But If we couldn't afford him then so be it.

The idea that we'll come out and state that Adams was number 2 choice (if he comes) is utterly ridiculous. You know this too.

UTB

 

[Fiery Blade]

Football managership is an extreme art not governed by any rules whatsoever
Some one can dive at a club only to come out smelling of roses at the next eg Clough at Brighton then at Forest, Holloway at Leicester now at Blackpool
Very few are given time to show how good they really are ! eg Ferguson at Man Ure, Moyes at Everton
Some are given too much time - eg Blackwell
It seems we have divided opinions - yet again
O'Driscoll is a favourite choice but realistically he's done bugger all
Adams has had success and failure but, he's a blade and deep down it will hurt him to lose and again it's his dream job!
Give him the job, if he balls's it up it won't be for the lack of trying and after Robson, Blackwell and Speed there's nothing to follow!

 

[Micalijo]

This might be another argument as well but if it takes another £1m loan from McCabe to get SOD I think he should have gone for it. I believe SOD asked for a few things on staff and didn't ask for huge budgets or salaries or anything. McCabe wouldn't give him what he wanted which is up to him of course but I reckon Birch was very seriosu about SOD and SOD wanted to come.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

How many home grown players are regulars in Doncaster's ranks? I don't know and stand to be corrected, but I don't think it's many at all.

Because they haven't got an academy which is why our job should have been an attractive option for him. Go through the team sheet though and see where they've come from, how much they cost, whether you've heard of many of them !

 

[alcoblade]

Football managership is an extreme art not governed by any rules whatsoever
Some one can dive at a club only to come out smelling of roses at the next eg Clough at Brighton then at Forest, Holloway at Leicester now at Blackpool
Very few are given time to show how good they really are ! eg Ferguson at Man Ure, Moyes at Everton
Some are given too much time - eg Blackwell
It seems we have divided opinions - yet again
O'Driscoll is a favourite choice but realistically he's done bugger all
Adams has had success and failure but, he's a blade and deep down it will hurt him to lose and again it's his dream job!
Give him the job, if he balls's it up it won't be for the lack of trying and after Robson, Blackwell and Speed there's nothing to follow!

Spot on.

UTB

---------- Post added at 10:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 AM ----------

This might be another argument as well but if it takes another £1m loan from McCabe to get SOD I think he should have gone for it. I believe SOD asked for a few things on staff and didn't ask for huge budgets or salaries or anything. McCabe wouldn't give him what he wanted which is up to him of course but I reckon Birch was very seriosu about SOD and SOD wanted to come.

Yep, pop down to the money tree again. You sound like the wife....

UTB

---------- Post added at 10:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 AM ----------

Because they haven't got an academy which is why our job should have been an attractive option for him.

So, he has no proven track record of bringing academy players through either? So the point is.....?

UTB

 

[Micalijo]

Yes - bugger all. Keeping Donny in second tier playing half decent football on a very modest budget. Nowt to write home about.

You sound like the Blackburn owners - mid table in Prem, awful. We should be in top 6. Really cannot believe this. Just confirm to me that you are saying you expect SOD to be mounting serious promotion pushes with Donny in second tier?

Alco - another of those £1m interest free loans won't hurt anybody - he's loaded, a financial/property genius don't you know!

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Football managership is an extreme art not governed by any rules whatsoever
Some one can dive at a club only to come out smelling of roses at the next eg Clough at Brighton then at Forest, Holloway at Leicester now at Blackpool
Very few are given time to show how good they really are ! eg Ferguson at Man Ure, Moyes at Everton
Some are given too much time - eg Blackwell
It seems we have divided opinions - yet again
O'Driscoll is a favourite choice but realistically he's done bugger all
Adams has had success and failure but, he's a blade and deep down it will hurt him to lose and again it's his dream job!
Give him the job, if he balls's it up it won't be for the lack of trying and after Robson, Blackwell and Speed there's nothing to follow!

Absolutely and as I've said before, you can only imagine what it would have been like on here if we'd got Holloway in 2 years ago when he'd been out of a job for 12 months. Of course Adams could do a great job here, as could Phil Brown or Andy Scott but at least with SO'D we would have known that he would have started with the Academy prospects and worked upwards and his track record shows that he has improved a hell of a lot of young players and gets a 'team' playing football. Of course he could have relegated us, struggled and been sacked in 18 months time, such is football but the philosophy SO'D manages by was supposedly the blueprint for the future.

---------- Post added at 10:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 AM ----------

So, he has no proven track record of bringing academy players through either? So the point is.....?

The point was in the rest of the quote which you left out

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

It's quite clear that SoD was Birches No1 choice. If SoD has removed himself out of the running we could say he no longer wishes to be considered for the role that doesn't do anything to Adams announcement.
Although why we are picking a manager from the lowest tier is lost on me when there are others above him. Which ever way you slice it Adams has been poor at our level even with decent backing (Coventry), was involved in relegating Leicester twice from the Premiership. What on earth has he done to be in contention apart from being a Blade?

As for SoD treading water, Donny have finished 14th and 12th while having to sell their best players and playing attractive football. All this while having a wage bill considerably less than most in the league. I think he deserves to be a leading candidate. I don't think he is a God, I don't think he will be without issue or fault I just think he is the outstanding candidate from the shortlist.
Adams is a hark back to the old United high tempo, hit it long and pick up the pieces. He has consistently failed at our level only ever achieving success with Leicester in unique circumstances of dumping £20 Million of debt and keeping their better players from his relegation season from the Premiership.

If we were talking to Southgate, Howe, Adkins, Clark, Poyet, etc then I wouldn't have an issue with SoD not being appointed. In fact SoD appointment isn't what is driving this it is Adams being the next best candidate.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

What is it with this bizarre obsession with the distinctly average SOD? He has only managed Bournemouth & Doncaster - two small town clubs - both with little pressure or expectation. His biggest ever achievement is getting a team to mid-table in the Championship. His win % of 37.81% is slightly poorer than Adams'. As for the hype about how attractive his teams are, the constant passing it around but often going nowhere is not my idea of excitement. Although Donny have been a bit of a bogey team for us recently we completely outplayed them in their last two visits to the Lane in all but scoreline & I saw absolutely no sign of their "attractive" football (as for their win a few weeks ago - a pub side would have beaten us the way we played).

Personally, I'd be happy enough with Adams. But our big problems stem from the tight-fisted, couldn't give a toss McCabe - so whoever we appoint is going to have his work cut out.

 

[alcoblade]

It's quite clear that SoD was Birches No1 choice. If SoD has removed himself out of the running we could say he no longer wishes to be considered for the role that doesn't do anything to Adams announcement.
Although why we are picking a manager from the lowest tier is lost on me when there are others above him. Which ever way you slice it Adams has been poor at our level even with decent backing (Coventry), was involved in relegating Leicester twice from the Premiership. What on earth has he done to be in contention apart from being a Blade?

As for SoD treading water, Donny have finished 14th and 12th while having to sell their best players and playing attractive football. All this while having a wage bill considerably less than most in the league. I think he deserves to be a leading candidate. I don't think he is a God, I don't think he will be without issue or fault I just think he is the outstanding candidate from the shortlist.
Adams is a hark back to the old United high tempo, hit it long and pick up the pieces. He has consistently failed at our level only ever achieving success with Leicester in unique circumstances of dumping £20 Million of debt and keeping their better players from his relegation season from the Premiership.

If we were talking to Southgate, Howe, Adkins, Clark, Poyet, etc then I wouldn't have an issue with SoD not being appointed. In fact SoD appointment isn't what is driving this it is Adams being the next best candidate.

What I find strange is that as the club was spunking millions of pounds on overseas property ventures and hotels, you were backing them to the hilt. You managed to conjure some deal whereby apparently we couldn't lose from the hotel, some sort of money press. Now we're suffering the consequences of those decisions (lower division managers), you're placing unrealistic demands on the hierarchy to explain in intricate detail why we may have lost a target and thereby completely undermine the actual appointment, when it comes.

UTB

---------- Post added at 01:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:46 PM ----------

Why shouldn't they state it? Adams couldn't give a toss and I assume because he is meant to be a Blade will work for free. Birch very clearly wanted SOD - why then can't he say what happened. It might stop a few accusations of incompetence, not that I'd believe a word he says so pointless from my point of view.

I'm really surprised Alco that you still seem to think SOD should be doing better than what he is doing at Donny. I just cannot see your point. He's performed miracles as far as I can see.

You don't half spout some utter bollocks in your search for a wind up... Of course any manager will feel undermined if the club publicly state that they were second choice, even if they know it to be the case. And nobody is going to work for free. He'll have his own standards and epect a degree of respect, as will anyone.

I don't expect Doncaster to be pushing for promotion. But there is nothing in S'OD's CV to cause me to lose all sense of reality in my thurst to see him appointed. He's managed 2 small clus with no expectation, and got one promoted. They play football that's pleasing to the eye but show no evidence that support base hs increased as a result of it, as it did here under the ever so direct Warnock. Have I missed something?

UTB

 

[Paqamaq]

Like some others on here, I'm not convinced by SOD, even less so by Adams. If I was Birch, I'd be looking at Keith Hill, and I'm surprised his name's not been mentioned more.

 

[alcoblade]

...And as for bringing on youth - I've just had a quick scan of Donny's squad. From 1 - 15 (I lost interest at that point) there is not one home grown player. So we also have no evidence that he's the man to expand, integrate and make a success of our academy. The more I look, the less convinced and more bemused I am.

UTB

 

[Micalijo]

What I find strange is that as the club was spunking millions of pounds on overseas property ventures and hotels, you were backing them to the hilt. You managed to conjure some deal whereby apparently we couldn't lose from the hotel, some sort of money press. Now we're suffering the consequences of those decisions (lower division managers), you're placing unrealistic demands on the hierarchy to explain in intricate detail why we may have lost a target and thereby completely undermine the actual appointment, when it comes.

UTB

---------- Post added at 01:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:46 PM ----------



You don't half spout some utter bollocks in your search for a wind up... Of course any manager will feel undermined if the club publicly state that they were second choice, even if they know it to be the case. And nobody is going to work for free. He'll have his own standards and epect a degree of respect, as will anyone.

I don't expect Doncaster to be pushing for promotion. But there is nothing in S'OD's CV to cause me to lose all sense of reality in my thurst to see him appointed. He's managed 2 small clus with no expectation, and got one promoted. They play football that's pleasing to the eye but show no evidence that support base hs increased as a result of it, as it did here under the ever so direct Warnock. Have I missed something?

UTB

I haven't got the stats but I am almost certain that Donny's average crowd will be massively higher in % terms now then a when SOD came. They are a small club, small fanbase - you think 10k crowds are poor at Donny, i see it as a minor footballing miracle. No evidence that their fanbase has imcreased is as daft as owt I've ever posted Alco imo.

 

[alcoblade]

I haven't got the stats but I am almost certain that Donny's average crowd will be massively higher in % terms now then a when SOD came. They are a small club, small fanbase - you think 10k crowds are poor at Donny, i see it as a minor footballing miracle. No evidence that their fanbase has imcreased is as daft as owt I've ever posted Alco imo.

Doncaster struggle to get 10,000 fans at home, even with away support. There's very few places the size of Doncaster who wouldn't get at least that sort of following in the championship. The idea that crowds have inflated because of the Brazillian style football thay play is fanciful. The fact that their gates have gone up since promotion is of no suprise. Ask the 25,000+ who know watch Stoke about their opinions on direct V slick football.

UTB

 

[LoughboroBlade]

...And as for bringing on youth - I've just had a quick scan of Donny's squad. From 1 - 15 (I lost interest at that point) there is not one home grown player. So we also have no evidence that he's the man to expand, integrate and make a success of our academy. The more I look, the less convinced and more bemused I am.

Unfortunately there aren't a great deal of those types of managers around, and certainly none of those linked to us. Some of that will no doubt be down to the respective youth systems of the clubs, but there seems to be a lot of blind faith placed in SOD (and Adams for that matter) that given the set-up we have they would of course use the youth system.

If only that bloke that brought through Monty, Jags & Tonge for us and the likes of Scannell, Bostock, Clyne & Moses at Palace was available...

 

[Nick Jansky]

I haven't got the stats but I am almost certain that Donny's average crowd will be massively higher in % terms now then a when SOD came. They are a small club, small fanbase - you think 10k crowds are poor at Donny, i see it as a minor footballing miracle. No evidence that their fanbase has imcreased is as daft as owt I've ever posted Alco imo.

Average Attendance:
At the Keepmoat:
2009-2010: 10,992 (Championship League)
2008-2009: 11,964 (Championship League)
2007-2008: 7,978 (League One)

So far this season the average is 10,530, so the trend is continuing downwards.

 

[Micalijo]

Average Attendance:
At the Keepmoat:
2009-2010: 10,992 (Championship League)
2008-2009: 11,964 (Championship League)
2007-2008: 7,978 (League One)

So far this season the average is 10,530, so the trend is continuing downwards.

Cheers Jansky - nice interpretation from you I must say.

So basically Alco the fanbase has increased massively and is holding up well at a time when nearly all second tier clubs are showing a drop, especially those where the chairman has shafted the club with disgraceful property losses.

 

[raul]

Just the ten fold increase and three promotions in a decade for Doncaster then. Ha ha ha they're so shit.