5 at the back

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Lmaobob

Lmaobob

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Why on earth do we continue to play 5 at the back without adequate replacements in the positions?

Stevens/RND at Left Centre Back? Clark at right centre back? Osborn right wing back?

For what reason on God's green earth are we still trying to lump together 5 defenders at the back.

We had 2 actual defenders on that pitch today. Baldock and Egan. Not gunna blame Clark as he wasn't being played in his usual position... but why. Why oh why oh why keep playing 5 at the back.

The best form of defence is ATTACK, nearly every other team plays 4 at the back and they absolutely pin us back every single game.

Watford were so attacking that they had their foot on our throats the entire game. Our two strikers feeding off scraps. To be honest, not even scraps.
 



Lmaobob said:
Why on earth do we continue to play 5 at the back without adequate replacements in the positions?

Stevens/RND at Left Centre Back? Clark at right centre back? Osborn right wing back?

For what reason on God's green earth are we still trying to lump together 5 defenders at the back.

We had 2 actual defenders on that pitch today. Baldock and Egan. Not gunna blame Clark as he wasn't being played in his usual position... but why. Why oh why oh why keep playing 5 at the back.

The best form of defence is ATTACK, nearly every other team plays 4 at the back and they absolutely pin us back every single game.

Watford were so attacking that they had their foot on our throats the entire game. Our two strikers feeding off scraps. To be honest, not even scraps.
Click to expand...
They played the same formation as us.
 
The reason why 5 at the back worked with Wilder is because we had 2 fully fit players who fit that style. O'Connell and Basham. They helped out attacking threat by overlapping. Neither of them are fit, no one in the squad can replace their energy and intent of going forward. 5 at the back is a thing of the past now.
 
SufcBilly said:
Our front 3 was Berge Ndiaye and Jebbo.

It just looks different because they’re more AM’s than wingers
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Berge is not being played as an attacking midfielder. He is playing on the far right of a flat 3 in the midfield.
 
We've been going backwards since we removed Duffy and went with the flat 3. We're stuck playing too many defenders, midfielders that can't defend or attack and who constantly get overran, and leaves our strikers isolated. Every game we look outnumbered, like the opposition have an extra player, and this has gone on since the second Premiership season.

We have to show some bollocks and play on the front foot. 4-2-3-1 is the answer. Let's fucking go for it and attack the shit out of the division.
 
Nedski said:
We've been going backwards since we removed Duffy and went with the flat 3. We're stuck playing too many defenders, midfielders that can't defend or attack and who constantly get overran, and leaves our strikers isolated. Every game we look outnumbered, like the opposition have an extra player, and this has gone on since the second Premiership season.

We have to show some bollocks and play on the front foot. 4-2-3-1 is the answer. Let's fucking go for it and attack the shit out of the division.
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Absofuckinglutely nailed it on the head
 
SufcBilly said:
disagree
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Berge playing as wide right of a flat 3 isn't opinion, it's what happened.

The flat 3 hasn't worked since first season in the prem. The best we looked last season was 2 "holding" (use the term holding lightly because Norwood and Fleck are only fit for holding the door open for their replacements at the moment) midfielders and a front 3. We never looked like replicating that tonight.
 
Gblade28 said:
Berge playing as wide right of a flat 3 isn't opinion, it's what happened.

The flat 3 hasn't worked since first season in the prem. The best we looked last season was 2 "holding" (use the term holding lightly because Norwood and Fleck are only fit for holding the door open for their replacements at the moment) midfielders and a front 3. We never looked like replicating that tonight.
Click to expand...
I must’ve been watching a different game because he was clearly playing advanced of Norwood and fleck to me
 



Roygbiv said:
Yeah I agree. Rip everything up because we lost away to one of the best sides in the league with 3 forwards who will probably be playing in The Premier League next month
Click to expand...
Just can't win can i? Last week pre-season matches don't matter. This week, the result didn't matter because we lost to a team that just got relegated from the premier league. Which we did that only last season and have kept nearly every single player from the Premier League, and made further additions.
 
Roygbiv said:
4 at the back for me like under Slav. Heckingbottom ruined last season when he went to to the 5.
Click to expand...
That back 4 under Slav or the 1 up front David Weir formations are only appreciated by true footballing connoisseur
 
Lmaobob said:
Just can't win can i? Last week pre-season matches don't matter. This week, the result didn't matter because we lost to a team that just got relegated from the premier league. Which we did that only last season and have kept nearly every single player from the Premier League, and made further additions.
Click to expand...

Your basing everything on friendlies and a narrow loss against a side who are 2nd favourites to go up. You're completely ignoring how terrible we were with 4 at the back under Slav and the turn around with 5 at the back under Heckingbottom
 
Panini said:
I don't agree with either of these but I'm happy to indulge the debate.

Please tell me which midfielders you would pick if we went with 4 at the back.
Click to expand...
Norwood - Doyle

Berge - Ndiaye - Khadra

Brewster
 
One of the problems we have is just how good we used to be with 5 at the back and three in mid with many of these players being outstanding. That first prem season we could literally match anyone without fear apart from Citeh and Liverpool. But therein lies the issue. These players, in this formation provided us with a level rarely achieved before. As a club we are still clinging onto the hope (despite it being increasingly unlikely or illogical) that the same players in the same formation will end up with the same outcome. It feels like a relationship that used to be amazing but that has run its course but that neither party is willing to walk away from, to the detriment of themselves and those around them. I want to remember Stevens, Baldock, Fleck and Norwood as the legends who took it to Manure and the rest of the bell end brigade in the premier league. The 532 should be a memorable legend of Wilder fitting the players at his disposal to a new and fine tuned system that left most opponent confused and unable to cope. Instead we are seeing once legends turn to liabilities and a system hindering our process.

It is true that the best relationships are the hardest to move on from and the most painful when they are eventually fail but it’s now time to grasp the nettle whilst there are positives still remaining.
 
Roygbiv said:
Your basing everything on friendlies and a narrow loss against a side who are 2nd favourites to go up. You're completely ignoring how terrible we were with 4 at the back under Slav and the turn around with 5 at the back under Heckingbottom
Click to expand...
The problem was that we had the shit tactics of Ben Osborn playing left wing under Slav!
 
Panini said:
I don't agree with either of these but I'm happy to indulge the debate.

Please tell me which midfielders you would pick if we went with 4 at the back.
Click to expand...
Arblaster/Norwood/Coulibaly/Berge/Osborn take your pick
 
Lmaobob said:
The problem was that we had the shit tactics of Ben Osborn playing left wing under Slav!
Click to expand...


If in 10 games time we are playing like we did today and are in the bottom half I think there would be an argument to say we need to change formation but right now all the evidence suggests 3 at the back gets the best results from these players
 
Lmaobob said:
Why on earth do we continue to play 5 at the back without adequate replacements in the positions?

Stevens/RND at Left Centre Back? Clark at right centre back? Osborn right wing back?

For what reason on God's green earth are we still trying to lump together 5 defenders at the back.

We had 2 actual defenders on that pitch today. Baldock and Egan. Not gunna blame Clark as he wasn't being played in his usual position... but why. Why oh why oh why keep playing 5 at the back.

The best form of defence is ATTACK, nearly every other team plays 4 at the back and they absolutely pin us back every single game.

Watford were so attacking that they had their foot on our throats the entire game. Our two strikers feeding off scraps. To be honest, not even scraps.
Click to expand...
Nearly every other team doesn't play 4 at the back. In matchday 1 16/24 teams played with a back 3/5.
 
We can’t play 4 at the back, it’s been proven. Baldock and Stevens/RND/Lowe can’t play full back effectively.

Put Basham in that team tonight and it’s nowhere near as bad. We miss him massively. A fit Sharp for Jebbo as well and it’s a different prospect. Khadra for Fleck and we wouldn’t have done any worse given how ineffective Fleck was.

Hopefully Anel can do the Basham bit to similar effect.
 



Lmaobob said:
The reason why 5 at the back worked with Wilder is because we had 2 fully fit players who fit that style. O'Connell and Basham. They helped out attacking threat by overlapping. Neither of them are fit, no one in the squad can replace their energy and intent of going forward. 5 at the back is a thing of the past now.
Click to expand...

I think there's plenty of merit in this.

I admit to being wrong last season as despite Slav occasionally playing a back 3/5 we ended up looking much better playing that after Hecky took over.

Robinson improved immeasurably in the second half of the season and Basham gives us forward impetus that no-one else does in that role.

We need to see what AA can do.

However, I agree the consistency of having Bash and JOC was huge and having to regularly swap doesn't help that formation.

Clark has been a decent centre half and should be more than adequate at this level but switching him between RCB and LCB isn't going to show him at his best imho.

Tbf though we've got to allow the team to take shape and let Hecky play the players in the positions they've been brought in to play.

No team functions at their best early season with a number of first teamers missing.
 
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