2011-12 Accounts out

[beightonblade]

just once it would be nice if we had a normal person in charge. not someone who wants to merge us with the pigs. move us to a new stadium in the middle of timbuktoo. build hotels. buy a brothel in kuala lumpur. turn us into barcelona. turn the car park into a willy wonka chocolate factory, or build a sandcastle on the centre circle.

just a normal person who uses our income to pay the wages, doesnt have any weird ambitions, and doesnt sell off all our best players for a pittance.

Look no further !

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I still don't follow. Sheffield United benefits at the rate at which Kevin McCabe is prepered to bleed cash. That cash can come via the football club or the PLC. It's all his.

The club loses pots of cash, with or without the assets in or out of the football club. It's McCabe's intentions (whatever they are) that stop him, as suggested by Dazzler, concreting over the entire place and selling the land for building.

I really don't see how it makes any difference. Removing the ground from the club did Man City lots of favours. Keeping them together did lots of other clubs no favours. No doubt there are plenty of examples in your favour too.

It's the intentions of the owners that drive the outcomes, not the accounting tweaks that they make.

Whether we like it or not, none of it is, or ever was, "OUR"'s.

UTB

The hotel wasn't moved to the PLC. It was sold to "Scarborough Partnership Limited".
That corner of the ground no longer has anything to do with Sheffield United (PLC or Football Club).

 

[oldblade]

I still don't follow. Sheffield United benefits at the rate at which Kevin McCabe is prepered to bleed cash. That cash can come via the football club or the PLC. It's all his.

The club loses pots of cash, with or without the assets in or out of the football club. It's McCabe's intentions (whatever they are) that stop him, as suggested by Dazzler, concreting over the entire place and selling the land for building.

I really don't see how it makes any difference. Removing the ground from the club did Man City lots of favours. Keeping them together did lots of other clubs no favours. No doubt there are plenty of examples in your favour too.

It's the intentions of the owners that drive the outcomes, not the accounting tweaks that they make.

Whether we like it or not, none of it is, or ever was, "OUR"'s.

UTB

At the moment I don't see that the ground being separated from the club is a problem because the same person owns both. However. it could become a problem if McCabe sold the club, but retained ownership of the ground etc. Although, I suspect that any prospective buyer would insist the ground formed part of the deal. However the experience of some other clubs shows that thatdoesn't always happen.

 

[KenMcnaughtsNuts]

well, weve always got the don valley to move to until we build a new stadium. then mccabe can build an even bigger hotel on bdtbl and officially become the twunt he's trying so hard to be.

 

[mpjacko]

I agree McCabe has mis-managed us but basically no one has any proof he has took any money out or whether money has vanished into a 'Scarborough Holdings Black Hole'

I don't know about money, but there's a hotel and a football ground that we don't own anymore....

Of course there is not going to be any evidence. KM is far too smart to make that mistake. There is a reason KM is a business man.

 

[mpjacko]

Correct me if I'm wrong but a lot of people on here didn't want the hotel as they it was a drain on the club resources.

Now its gone you want it back!! I think the main reason we want it back (as the phrase you used) because KM has got it on the cheep. Had he or his business paid market value then I don't think many on here would mind.

In business some times you have to endure short term pain and the gains then come later. If McCabe had not taken the hotel back we'd now be getting the gain!!

The trouble was that during the the pain stages the fans wanted shut of it so McCabe obliged so he's now getting the gain. He only did what the fans at the time wanted.!!!

 

[mpjacko]

I start from the premise that if McCabe was only interested in his own self-aggrandisement and making as much money for himself as possible, he would not have gone within a million miles of the financial black hole that SUFC has been for the last 40 years.

If that premise is accepted then, it follows that McCabe must have got involved with SUFC for other reasons. My view is that he did it for exactly the same reason as other very rich people who get involved with football clubs - a hobby that will bring them some prestige and a feeling of power and, in the case of someone like McCabe ("local boy made good"), putting something back in the community from whence he came. Of course, that hobby tends to be a rather expensive one and I am sure KM was well aware of this when he got involved.

There may come a stage when these plutocracts get bored of their hobby and may wish to get rid of their toy with as little financial loss to themselves as possible. KM may well have reached that stage now. However, all the evidence suggests that KM does retain an affection for SUFC (after all he could just close the club down tomorrow and sell off the land if he so chose) and that he genuinely does not want to damage the club long terrm.

All this is not to be a "supporter" of McCabe - his regime from 2007 has clearly been disastrous - merely to try to have some grasp of probability and likelihood - rather than a knee jerk "hate McCabe, love United" stance. It is also not incompatible with disapproving of the way he manages his tax affairs - whatever the correct technical term is.

I partly agree with there Darren but I disagree with your view after KM started to invest in other clubs. I feel at the start of his reign, KM had the club best interest at heart when he saved us from going under however this changed when we reached the PL (or around that time when he invested in China). I truly believe that he thought he could use our name to buy clubs which would lead him to buy land cheaply in different countries i.e China, Hungry. From then, he decided he would make money from united either from the club itself or from it's name and this has resulted in the mess we are now in.

I keep saying this time and time again until i am blue in the face. Had KM ran united like he runs his business, then we wouldn't be in the position we are now.

 

[mpjacko]

Live on the OS: http://www.sufc.co.uk/documents/su-plc-30-june-2012135-494365.pdf

Overall, the accounts do not make a pretty picture. SUFC plc lost £13m over the year and appears to have funded the majority of this through short-term bank loans.

The transfer of the ground and Shirecliffe is in there as a transfer of property with a net book value of £23.25m but there are no further details of the lease agreement. One thing I did spot was that there was a transfer of land to the "Scarborough Foundation" for £500k which was then leased back at £60k per year. Any ideas what this is?

Maybe I have missed something but why have we lost 13m last year?

Was the wage bill in that period still greater than our income? But surely not 13M over?

 

[Balham]

Maybe I have missed something but why have we lost 13m last year?

Was the wage bill in that period still greater than our income? But surely not 13M over?

Turnover: £10.3m
Cost of sales (1): £(14.3)m
Gross loss: £(4.0)m
Admin expenses: £(6.0)m
Depreciation etc (2): £(2.2)m
Other income: £0.3m
Operating loss: £(12.0)m
Profit on disposal (3): £1.6m
Interest payable: £(2.6)m
Loss on activities: £(13.0)m
Tax payable: £-
Loss for the year: £(13.0)m

1 Cost of sales includes player wages
2 Depreciation is actually amortisation: the process of spreading the cost of a player's transfer over the length of their contract. This will include Evans' fee.
3 Profit on disposal is outgoing transfers above the stated value. Slew would provide the majority of this as his book value would have been very low.

 

[borbokis]

loss on activities?

 

[Balham]

loss on activities?

It's also known as Profit Before Tax (PBT) - although if you're losing money it's actually Loss Before Tax.

The calculation is Profit/(loss) on activities = Operating profit/(loss) +/- profit/(loss) on disposals +/- interest income/(payable)

In our case, it's an operating loss of £12.0m plus £1.6m profit on disposals (aka player sales) less £2.6m interest payable.

In maths: -£12.0m +£1.6m - £2.6m = -£13.0m

Hope that helps.

 

[Hartley Hare]

Note 32 in the accounts caught my eye. A list of related party loans, interest amounts and terms.

The interest rates look alarming 10% in most cases. Total interest paid in the year to service all finance amounted to £2.6m (note 8). This represents nearly 60% of gate receipts!!!!

I think some of these loans should be converted to share capital which would save £1.3m a year. The group is very highly geared and I wouldn't be surprised if third party financiers looked for some loan to share capital conversion to address this issue, and boost the Balance Sheet.

The last entry on note 32. As follows;

On 7 February 2011 land held within Sheffield United plc, with a net book value of £250 was sold to The
Scarborough Group Foundation for £500,000. The land was subsequently leased back on an operating lease
over 10 years at a rental of £60,000 per annum.

Interesting sale and leaseback arrangement. Very expensive way to raise funds. 60/500 = 12% ? Not bad for The Scarborough Group Foundation.

The group consolidated balance sheet on page 16 shows net assets of only £1.359m. Another loss in excess of this amount will result in net liabilities! The group will be insolvent. (Although some assets maybe more valuable than stated).

Lots of information in these accounts, and a lot going on this year restructuring and reorganising group assets and finance.

Very interesting, but not good.

I feel a bit sorry for the McCabe family, there is no doubt they are bank rolling the club and group, millions of pounds of losses. Each month they must have to put money in, with no end in sight. Promotion this season will help but I can't see, how, even with that prize, the clubs finances will be solved.

HH.

 

[beightonblade]

McCabe has charged 10% on loans to the Blades for years nowt new there!
The land net book value £250??????? WTF, should be appraised periodically by professionals!
Money back on a 10 year lease is always aimed for............but not always achieved.
I hope he is 'manouvering' for the best intentions!

 

[KenMcnaughtsNuts]

Its amazing we have any losses, the stuff this guy can conjure up. how has it not been magically transformed into a strategically developed negative profit, or some such nonsense? hes got more tricks up his sleeve than paul daniels.

 

[Balham]

McCabe has charged 10% on loans to the Blades for years nowt new there!
The land net book value £250??????? WTF, should be appraised periodically by professionals!
Money back on a 10 year lease is always aimed for............but not always achieved.
I hope he is 'manouvering' for the best intentions!

Most of the loans from Scarborough over the year were actually at 4.5% which I was pleasantly surprised by.

I agree on the land point; not least because profit on revaluation helps the balance sheet and the P&L, although the profit is not realised and therefore not available for shareholders.

 

[beightonblade]

Most of the loans from Scarborough over the year were actually at 4.5% which I was pleasantly surprised by.

I agree on the land point; not least because profit on revaluation helps the balance sheet and the P&L, although the profit is not realised and therefore not available for shareholders.

When I say 10% Balham I mean in previous years........going back years.
He has strange ways of portraying his 'BIG BLADE' image in my opinion, a few simple moves and he could be an all time BLADES hero.Perhaps he doesn't give a fuck.

 

[Balham]

When I say 10% Balham I mean in previous years........going back years.
He has strange ways of portraying his 'BIG BLADE' image in my opinion, a few simple moves and he could be an all time BLADES hero.Perhaps he doesn't give a fuck.

I think there's two halves at play - half of McCabe [still] wants to be seen as the Blades' saviour; the other half is a hard-nosed businessman who's not prepared to walk away from a £50m+ investment.

The short-term success of the Blades, in my opinion, rests on which side wins out.

 

[alcoblade]

the centre circle.

just a normal person who uses our income to pay the wages, doesnt have any weird ambitions, and doesnt sell off all our best players for a pittance.

A chairman who used just our income to pay the wages would probably last a year before the reaity (that it's not enough to compete) took it's told and lots of people would know better again.

When lots around me were criticising George Long last night ("You cunt" for example), I couldn't help think about all those people who cry out for local youth, because apparently the fan base would be much more patient with them. Yeah, right.

It's often said tht the fans are a clever group who should be listened to. The harsh reality is that lots of them are one notch up from brain dead.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

The hotel wasn't moved to the PLC. It was sold to "Scarborough Partnership Limited".
That corner of the ground no longer has anything to do with Sheffield United (PLC or Football Club).

Along with a shit load of debt. So, one car crash of a business that can't pay its' way became..................another car crash of business that can't pay its' way. The shortfall made up, in both cases, by the bloke in charge. Until, or if, some other mug steps up to the plate.

UTB

 

[super_pig]

i've been supporting this team for over 40 years and in all that time, through good times or bad, we've ALWAYS been 15 million in debt.. we could win the champions league and sell the whole team and we'd STILL be 15 million in debt

 

[alcoblade]

i've been supporting this team for over 40 years and in all that time, through good times or bad, we've ALWAYS been 15 million in debt.. we could win the champions league and sell the whole team and we'd STILL be 15 million in debt

You wish. I take it the last few years accounts never reached Casa super_pig!



UTB

 

[Railway Blade]

Looks like even though some financial pruning has taken place we are still going to continue making a loss for some time yet.
If turnover is approx £10m then wages with the wage cap are approx £6.5m . That leaves £3.5m left to service other costs of sales, Admin exps of approx £6m and debt servicing of between £2-3m.
Not good reading and the going concern note is a bit worrying.