2011-12 Accounts out

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Balham Blade

Balham Blade

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Live on the OS: http://www.sufc.co.uk/documents/su-plc-30-june-2012135-494365.pdf

Overall, the accounts do not make a pretty picture. SUFC plc lost £13m over the year and appears to have funded the majority of this through short-term bank loans.

The transfer of the ground and Shirecliffe is in there as a transfer of property with a net book value of £23.25m but there are no further details of the lease agreement. One thing I did spot was that there was a transfer of land to the "Scarborough Foundation" for £500k which was then leased back at £60k per year. Any ideas what this is?
 

Mic in 1... 2....

This thread is going to be popcorn worthy without a doubt.

One thing stuck out to me in the site propaganda released today:


"On the playing side the transition to recruit younger players on wages the club is structured to afford is well under way, also enabling us to comply with new Football League financial control mechanisms - the Salary Cost Management Protocol. In simple terms, driven by Football League enforced regulations, this club, like any other in Leagues One and Two, will now only recruit players its revenues can support.

"The focus going forward will be to develop and grow a high performing player talent base, maintaining a sustainable business where we can see a maximum return on our assets and ensuring we are a true family and community club,"
Click to expand...

Maybe if we'd done that before, wouldn't be in the mess we're in now. Even the most brainless of our supporters (that isn't a dig at you Mic), can see that our transfer strategy has been a disgrace in recent seasons.
 
Maybe if we'd done that before, wouldn't be in the mess we're in now. Even the most brainless of our supporters (that isn't a dig at you Mic), can see that our transfer strategy has been a disgrace in recent seasons.

Of course the joke of this is that as early as the Beattie sale in January 2009 we were saying that we had to make cuts, spend wisely etc (I think "re-profiling" was the term of the day). Makes you wonder how much of this enormous debt has been incurred since that line was first trotted out.
 
Revolution said:
Maybe if we'd done that before, wouldn't be in the mess we're in now. Even the most brainless of our supporters (that isn't a dig at you Mic), can see that our transfer strategy has been a disgrace in recent seasons.

Of course the joke of this is that as early as the Beattie sale in January 2009 we were saying that we had to make cuts, spend wisely etc (I think "re-profiling" was the term of the day). Makes you wonder how much of this enormous debt has been incurred since that line was first trotted out.
Click to expand...
Two seasons of 3rd tier football, drops in attendance players on big contracts to help us get out of this league.... However, this season is proving so far that we don't need big earners, just a manager that can get the best out of lesser players within a system that is effective.
 
SwissBlade said:
Two seasons of 3rd tier football, drops in attendance players on big contracts to help us get out of this league.... However, this season is proving so far that we don't need big earners, just a manager that can get the best out of lesser players within a system that is effective.
Click to expand...

But would you have said that at ten to three on Saturday? I know I wouldn't.

For me, the current malaise began after the 2009 play-off, when the powers-that-be panicked and tore up a very promising squad - the Kyles, Paddy, even Kilgallon. Pure short-termism that is being felt to this day.

Still, some will carry on about 'how much McCabe has put into the club' without mentioning how much he's taken out (Maguire will be the next installment).
 
grafikhaus said:
But would you have said that at ten to three on Saturday? I know I wouldn't.

For me, the current malaise began after the 2009 play-off, when the powers-that-be panicked and tore up a very promising squad - the Kyles, Paddy, even Kilgallon. Pure short-termism that is being felt to this day.

Still, some will carry on about 'how much McCabe has put into the club' without mentioning how much he's taken out (Maguire will be the next installment).
Click to expand...

For me, the current malaise began in the Summer of 2007 when we bought lots of incredibly expensive players with (in many cases) zero re-sale value despite having a squad that looked reasonably well equipped for a quick return to the Premier League.

The likes of Beattie, Ehiogu, Hendrie, Naysmith and Speed got a big payday and we put ourselves in a financial mess we're still in now.
 
cooperblade said:
For me, the current malaise began in the Summer of 2007 when we bought lots of incredibly expensive players with (in many cases) zero re-sale value despite having a squad that looked reasonably well equipped for a quick return to the Premier League.

The likes of Beattie, Ehiogu, Hendrie, Naysmith and Speed got a big payday and we put ourselves in a financial mess we're still in now.
Click to expand...

None of which would have been a problem with a half decent manager at the helm, and I include Warnock in that...
 
SellyOakBlade said:
None of which would have been a problem with a half decent manager at the helm, and I include Warnock in that...
Click to expand...

Agreed. Had we had a half decent manager in 2007-08, that squad would have taken us straight back up. As shown by the fact that when we had a half decent, but by no means world beating manager in charge (i.e. Blackwell), that squad suddenly starting displaying automatic promotion form as opposed to the previous lower mid table form. Sadly, by then, 2/3 of the season had already been lost to a manager of clownish ineptitude.

I hope Bryan's Robosn's daughter doesn';t make an apparreance...
 
bartman said:
How much has he taken out ?
Click to expand...

We'll never know, but tot up the 2 Kyles, parachute payments, fantastic crowds to this day, all the revenue from Wembley 2009 (Burnley waived their share), Lowton, Slew, £20m still to come (and vanish into the Scarborough Holdings black hole) from West Ham etc. etc.

Few teams outside the PL have seen so much pour in and we still can't afford loanees?
 
If we are looking for a scapegoat then I suggest we need look no further than Mr.K.McCabe.
 
I agree that with a better manager we'd have gone straight back up but we were putting ourselves in a position where wages were going to be high, transfer income was going to be low compared to outgoings and player turnover was going to be fairly high (as our ageing squad were no longer up to it or retired).

Ultimately he failed (in terms of keeping us in the division he'd taken us to) but there were more signs of building for the future and looking to be more sustainable under Warnock than there were in the years after he left.
 
grafikhaus said:
We'll never know, but tot up the 2 Kyles, parachute payments, fantastic crowds to this day, all the revenue from Wembley 2009 (Burnley waived their share), Lowton, Slew, £20m still to come (and vanish into the Scarborough Holdings black hole) from West Ham etc. etc.

Few teams outside the PL have seen so much pour in and we still can't afford loanees?
Click to expand...

I agree McCabe has mis-managed us but basically no one has any proof he has took any money out or whether money has vanished into a 'Scarborough Holdings Black Hole'

There is no £20million to come from West ham...the money from West Ham will go to Santander as we borrowed against it.

Tot up all the sales and I would hazard a guess that we have spent(or is that wasted) more on wages,transfer fees etc from the Robson era onwards than we have ever got back wheras if we had followed the West Brom model(capping wages,etc) we wouldn't be in this mess

FFP means we cannot now get decent loan players in. We were lucky to get Gallagher in...he is on £18k a week at Leicester (a figure told to me by someone high up at SUFC) as they only required a small fraction of his wage for the time he was on loan
 

grafikhaus said:
....£20m still to come (and vanish into the Scarborough Holdings black hole) from West Ham etc. etc....
Click to expand...

I'll say this till i'm blue in the face. Anything coming from West Ham is going straight to paying off a loan that was taken out at the time the money was awarded. I think the reason they did this is to get all the money up front, so that we could then pay it off as West Ham paid us.

So in short, forget about the West Ham cash, in real terms we've already had it. Now we're giving it to the bank.
 
I agree McCabe has mis-managed us but basically no one has any proof he has took any money out or whether money has vanished into a 'Scarborough Holdings Black Hole'

I don't know about money, but there's a hotel and a football ground that we don't own anymore....
 
There's a few interesting figures regarding the fair play rules. Turnover for 2012 was £10.2 million. Yet salaries for 2012 were £10.9 million. Presumably this turnover figure is the one being used in the FFP calculation? That is more than 100% that we need to get down to 65%. Even though we have shifted out the big earners, you can see why we have an (unofficial) embargo. A wage bill of £6.5 million (65% of turnover) may seem high for the third tier, but considering it was £10.9m last year and £16.1m* the year before that, then you can see why we are struggling to meet the new rules.

When you consider Wilson had to reduce the wage bill by 35-40% and is actually doing better than last season, you have to take your hat off to him.

* £16.1m wage bill for that crock of shite that we saw get relegated from the Championship is incredible. Mind you, Tricky Trev was in full flow at that point.
 
Lots of information in the accounts, and a lot to absorb, interpret and analyse.

First impressions do not look good at all.

HH
 
Houso said:
Mic in 1... 2....

This thread is going to be popcorn worthy without a doubt.

One thing stuck out to me in the site propaganda released today:




Maybe if we'd done that before, wouldn't be in the mess we're in now. Even the most brainless of our supporters (that isn't a dig at you Mic), can see that our transfer strategy has been a disgrace in recent seasons.
Click to expand...
 
Ollessendro said:
There's a few interesting figures regarding the fair play rules. Turnover for 2012 was £10.2 million. Yet salaries for 2012 were £10.9 million. Presumably this turnover figure is the one being used in the FFP calculation?
Click to expand...

£1.8M of the reduction in turnover occured because McCabe sold the hotel and business centre to himself for £1.
We'd be allowed a higher wage bill under the FFP rules if he hadn't.
Maybe be able to sign a winger?
 
Balham Blade said:
Live on the OS: http://www.sufc.co.uk/documents/su-plc-30-june-2012135-494365.pdf

Overall, the accounts do not make a pretty picture. SUFC plc lost £13m over the year and appears to have funded the majority of this through short-term bank loans.

The transfer of the ground and Shirecliffe is in there as a transfer of property with a net book value of £23.25m but there are no further details of the lease agreement. One thing I did spot was that there was a transfer of land to the "Scarborough Foundation" for £500k which was then leased back at £60k per year. Any ideas what this is?
Click to expand...

Where do you get this bit about short term bank loans?

My understanding is that £8m has come in as share capital (preference shares) and there has been a £1.5m increase in bank borrowings due within one year (note 17).

Loans from other Scarborough companies have gone up from £12.8 to £15.3 so if you add all those up doesn;t that get you near to the loss? In other words, McCabe has funded the loss - which he should do of course.

PS - the chairman's statement makes my physically sick.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but a lot of people on here didn't want the hotel as they it was a drain on the club resources.

Now its gone you want it back!!

In business some times you have to endure short term pain and the gains then come later. If McCabe had not taken the hotel back we'd now be getting the gain!!

The trouble was that during the the pain stages the fans wanted shut of it so McCabe obliged so he's now getting the gain. He only did what the fans at the time wanted.!!!
 
The trouble was that during the the pain stages the fans wanted shut of it so McCabe obliged so he's now getting the gain. He only did what the fans at the time wanted.!!!

Well, he built the hotel, so he certainly didn't do what I wanted.
 
Well, he went empire building in key property growth areas of the globe, so he certainly didn't do what I wanted.
 

grafikhaus said:
We'll never know, but tot up the 2 Kyles, parachute payments, fantastic crowds to this day, all the revenue from Wembley 2009 (Burnley waived their share), Lowton, Slew, £20m still to come (and vanish into the Scarborough Holdings black hole) from West Ham etc. etc.

Few teams outside the PL have seen so much pour in and we still can't afford loanees?
Click to expand...



I might be wrong, but I thought the money that we are owed from the Tevez settlement is set against bank debt and therefore will not be going to Scarborough Holdings.
 
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