Neil Warnock

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Harry's Game said:
John Harris and Dave Bassett had us and kept us in the top flight longer. Warnock is third on that list. And I say it as a Warnock fan.
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Ok so ARGUABLY warnock is top three
You could debate that he is above or below those two but if he is shit then so are they
 



Anyone who wants Warnock to come in and replicate 2002-3 needs to remember that, as great as that season was, it didn't end in promotion.

Of course, Warnock took 6 and a half seasons to get us up. He's had quicker success elsewhere, but not at the Lane.

A new manager might see some dead cat bounce, but the major problem is not the manager, but the poor quality/non trying players.
 
Not a dig at Warnock, a comment on the state of the club over the years but one promotion a play off final and a couple of semis and he rightly is one of our most "successful" managers.
 
Warnock managed in the football league for nearly 23 years. I've just totted up 6 promotions and 2 relegations, hope that's accurate.

He managed us for nearly eight years.
 
Plus cup semis, play off finals etc
 
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judge said:
Double under warnock to what they were under bassett
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Woo. A full house did wonders on that last vital day at home to Wigan.

Based on your theory Adkins is doing a good job. After all 20k every week cant be wrong.
 



Revolution said:
Anyone who wants Warnock to come in and replicate 2002-3 needs to remember that, as great as that season was, it didn't end in promotion.

Of course, Warnock took 6 and a half seasons to get us up. He's had quicker success elsewhere, but not at the Lane.

A new manager might see some dead cat bounce, but the major problem is not the manager, but the poor quality/non trying players.
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Consecutive promotions from 3rd tier to 1st tier with Notts County in his first two full seasons.
Promotion from 3rd tier with Plymouth in his first full season.
Relegation candidates to 2nd tier play-offs with Crystal Palace in his first full season.
Promotion from 2nd tier with QPR in his first full season.

I guess how long it takes a manager to build a promotion team depends on a lot on the situation he inherits.
Under Heath, we were in the bottom three and looking like certainties for relegation, so it took a little longer to build a promotion-challenging side.
At this stage, I will be quite happy to replicate the 2002-2003 season even if it didn't end in promotion. Still the best season in living memory.
 
Finnieston said:
Mcabe did care for the club. He gave Warnock a free reign and money to save us from relegation. What did he do he bought. Fathi. Shelton,Akinbayi, Horsefield, and Dean Windass. He fell out straight away with Windass who never played, and Horsefield who i think played once. Fathi played twice i think and Akinbayi and Shelton were in and out. What a great judge of a player. Spent money like water hoping to get it right. No wonder Mcabe sacked him. Big time Charlie........no season ticket for me if he returns........Total Liability and totally siglehandedly turned the FA hierarchy against the club. That must be quite hard to do, but he did it.
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I think the first player Warnock brought in after becoming our manager was Michael Brown. Not many people had heard of him at the time, but I think we can safely say he was a pretty good player, but then again he couldn't have bee because Warnock is a liability who only signs poor players.......:rolleyes:

Windass was signed in the 2002-3 season and did rather well I seem to remember. He was generally very well thought of by supporters and was not signed to 'save us from relegation'. Warnock did not fall out with him straight away. That occurred prior to the play off final.

Horsfield and Akinbiyi were signed in the 2005-6 promotion season. again hardly a move to save us from relegation. The latter scored a great goal against Wednesday at Hillsborough, and also scored the only goal of the match at Pride Park. It is true neither of them were great signings, but in Akinbiyi's case this was more to do with the fact that he didn't really fit in comfortably with the way we played, rather than him being a poor player.

In that 2005-6 season, he did also sign Paul Ifill and David Unsworth. Both very successful signings.

Warnock is such a liability he is the only manager to have got us to the premier league in the last 26 years.
 
Bladesway said:
Woo. A full house did wonders on that last vital day at home to Wigan.

Based on your theory Adkins is doing a good job. After all 20k every week cant be wrong.
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Ive got a lot of respect for you mate and dont want to get in to the usual argument about warnock but even you have to admit that the reason adkins is getting crowds like that is because warnock and mccabe built the fanbase up to the biggest its been since the halcyon days of harris currie and woodward

I like bassett ,probably my favourite era as a blade i was 16 and doing away days with thousands of delirious blades on the march through three divisions but watnick deserves equal respect at least as bassett and harris but doesnt get it
For ( in my eyes ) some pretty petty reasoning
 
judge said:
Ive got a lot of respect for you mate and dont want to get in to the usual argument about warnock but even you have to admit that the reason adkins is getting crowds like that is because warnock and mccabe built the fanbase up to the biggest its been since the halcyon days of harris currie and woodward

I like bassett ,probably my favourite era as a blade i was 16 and doing away days with thousands of delirious blades on the march through three divisions but watnick deserves equal respect at least as bassett and harris but doesnt get it
For ( in my eyes ) some pretty petty reasoning
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Pretty fair comment there. NW getting us to the PL certainly increased the attending fan base.
If I have any issue with Warnock it's his capitulation on the field in some games, notably Villa away, and his interest in other jobs in that season. I don't let that cloud my memories of promotion and the triple assault season etc.
 
The fact a debate about whether Warnock was any good or not, when everyone else in the country would say he's one of the best managers outside the PL and has been for twenty years, runs for ten pages indicates to me that whoever we get will never be good enough for some of our supporters.

The reasons for disliking him, with the exception of his public flirting with Portsmouth, are, in my opinion, pathetic.
 
BushBlade said:
The reasons for disliking him, with the exception of his public flirting with Portsmouth, are, in my opinion, pathetic.
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A gobshite self publicist who made some awful decisions in the JTW, Villa away and Wigan at home. I spoke to him after one of the AGM's and he just wasn't interested in the 'little people' and spent his time looking over my shoulder towards the journos.

He gave us some great times in 2003 and then again in 2006/07 and I will always be grateful for that, but it could have been so much more...

ISC
 
judge said:
Ive got a lot of respect for you mate and dont want to get in to the usual argument about warnock but even you have to admit that the reason adkins is getting crowds like that is because warnock and mccabe built the fanbase up to the biggest its been since the halcyon days of harris currie and woodward

I like bassett ,probably my favourite era as a blade i was 16 and doing away days with thousands of delirious blades on the march through three divisions but watnick deserves equal respect at least as bassett and harris but doesnt get it
For ( in my eyes ) some pretty petty reasoning
Click to expand...

I thought I was very fair if you read some of my posts in this very thread defending the bloke and his record. I too had some of my best times a's a blade under Warnock and only an idiot would decry his successes. Any one of us should take where we were under Warnock at any point to where we are today. Him and McCabe built the foundations that should have seen us go on to glorious places, cementing our place in the Premiership and at the very least been a yoyo club between Prem and Championship.

Problem with all this is, it gets very black and white. "Warnock did this", "Warnock was a prick", "no he wasn't". We have all got embroiled in that tit for tat and it just means we all dig in and slug out another session of insults. I'm not trying to do that but equally you have to admit while he helped build something exceptional he in part went and knocked it back down again. That time in the Premiership when we should have gone and got Beattie (for example) we didn't, we accumulated gambles. This is what Warnock did and at Championship level it worked a treat. In the Premiership he got Rob Hulse, which was a stroke of genius. But he also got Akinbiyi and Horsefield for ridiculous fees, which I'll be honest, if I were McCabe I would have got the jitters giving him any money. He got Shelton, Fathi and Seck in. Players when you saw them never looked remotely like Premiership footballers. The much documented Villa game where we folded like a pack of cards, then Wigan when he changed formation and played players out of position which ultimately led to our relegation. Then he did what he always does. Blamed everyone else. Blamed Sean Bean, Blamed (with some justification) Tevez, blames McCabe, blamed the Premiership, blamed his contract issues, blamed Benitez etc etc etc. Then there was the bollocks over his possible job with Portsmouth. Just when we were playing a Derby game against the filth. Basset and Harris never did that.

You are right, he did build something great. Lets forget his attitude and selfishness and look at the achievement in itself. 2003 while ultimately a failure was a brilliant season to be a Blade. I was at Liverpool home and away for the cup semi, I went to Cardiff, the Forest game, they were great days. Cup Semi Finals.

I'll lay it out why I don't see him as an equal to Bassett and hopefully you will at least see my reasoning. Warnock did great things but choked when it mattered the most. He also had 8 years. The only person that let Bassett down was the board selling Brian Deane. Had that not happened we wouldn't have been relegated.

Why wouldn't I want him back is I suppose the big question? In dark times I actually think "perhaps we should" because there is a chance he could do a job and take us up. How brilliant would that be? But I also believe you never go back. It was something brilliant while it lasted. I for one want to hold onto the memories and not have them tarnished by him coming back and it not being the same. Because as much as we cling on to it being like the old days, it won't be.

P.S : He is doing great things at Rotherham and proving me wrong once more. He still can do a job, but I don't want him doing it here because I think we are too sickly as a club for him to do anything about it. It has to be someone new, someone different.

Hope you get the reasoning even if the logic is a bit fuzzy.
 
Bladesway said:
I thought I was very fair if you read some of my posts in this very thread defending the bloke and his record. I too had some of my best times a's a blade under Warnock and only an idiot would decry his successes. Any one of us should take where we were under Warnock at any point to where we are today. Him and McCabe built the foundations that should have seen us go on to glorious places, cementing our place in the Premiership and at the very least been a yoyo club between Prem and Championship.

Problem with all this is, it gets very black and white. "Warnock did this", "Warnock was a prick", "no he wasn't". We have all got embroiled in that tit for tat and it just means we all dig in and slug out another session of insults. I'm not trying to do that but equally you have to admit while he helped build something exceptional he in part went and knocked it back down again. That time in the Premiership when we should have gone and got Beattie (for example) we didn't, we accumulated gambles. This is what Warnock did and at Championship level it worked a treat. In the Premiership he got Rob Hulse, which was a stroke of genius. But he also got Akinbiyi and Horsefield for ridiculous fees, which I'll be honest, if I were McCabe I would have got the jitters giving him any money. He got Shelton, Fathi and Seck in. Players when you saw them never looked remotely like Premiership footballers. The much documented Villa game where we folded like a pack of cards, then Wigan when he changed formation and played players out of position which ultimately led to our relegation. Then he did what he always does. Blamed everyone else. Blamed Sean Bean, Blamed (with some justification) Tevez, blames McCabe, blamed the Premiership, blamed his contract issues, blamed Benitez etc etc etc. Then there was the bollocks over his possible job with Portsmouth. Just when we were playing a Derby game against the filth. Basset and Harris never did that.

You are right, he did build something great. Lets forget his attitude and selfishness and look at the achievement in itself. 2003 while ultimately a failure was a brilliant season to be a Blade. I was at Liverpool home and away for the cup semi, I went to Cardiff, the Forest game, they were great days. Cup Semi Finals.

I'll lay it out why I don't see him as an equal to Bassett and hopefully you will at least see my reasoning. Warnock did great things but choked when it mattered the most. He also had 8 years. The only person that let Bassett down was the board selling Brian Deane. Had that not happened we wouldn't have been relegated.

Why wouldn't I want him back is I suppose the big question? In dark times I actually think "perhaps we should" because there is a chance he could do a job and take us up. How brilliant would that be? But I also believe you never go back. It was something brilliant while it lasted. I for one want to hold onto the memories and not have them tarnished by him coming back and it not being the same. Because as much as we cling on to it being like the old days, it won't be.

P.S : He is doing great things at Rotherham and proving me wrong once more. He still can do a job, but I don't want him doing it here because I think we are too sickly as a club for him to do anything about it. It has to be someone new, someone different.

Hope you get the reasoning even if the logic is a bit fuzzy.
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That pretty much sums it up BW
So post war managers top 3;
1. John Harris
2. Dave Bassett
3. Neal Warnock
 
IMHO, the Warnock era was great and I thank him for that. But for me it's not black and white, more shades of grey. Like any manager, even my no.1 vote Bassett, he made great signings and slso some real clangers. As one example I always liked Paul Shaw as a player, but a Warnock type player? I never saw that.

The game against Wigan, so many elements went against us not just that day, but as a result of things that happened over the season. Tevezgate was just one thing (yes a big thing). But one more poxy point over the course of the season, and Tevez would have been someone elses problem.
 
The Crab said:
The game against Wigan, so many elements went against us not just that day, but as a result of things that happened over the season. Tevezgate was just one thing (yes a big thing). But one more poxy point over the course of the season, and Tevez would have been someone elses problem.
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One more poxy goal would have done it, even a last minute consolation at Villa, or Danny Webber not bottling that penalty against Chelsea, or.....

Or.....!:mad:
 
Bladesway said:
That time in the Premiership when we should have gone and got Beattie (for example) we didn't, we accumulated gambles. This is what Warnock did and at Championship level it worked a treat. In the Premiership he got Rob Hulse, which was a stroke of genius. But he also got Akinbiyi and Horsefield for ridiculous fees, which I'll be honest, if I were McCabe I would have got the jitters giving him any money. He got Shelton, Fathi and Seck in. Players when you saw them never looked remotely like Premiership footballers.
Click to expand...

Those signings make sense in the context of a Championship wage bill for a Premiership club.
None of his signings were established Premiership players because he wasn’t allowed to pay Premiership wages.
Therefore, you are correct in saying that they were all gambles on Championship or foreign players who may or may not come good.
Hulse, CKR, Stead, Kenny, Geary, Armstrong, Morgan, Jagielka and Tonge were all Championship players who didn't look out of place in the Premiership.

McCabe didn't increase the wage bill sufficiently to sign the likes of Beattie (for example) until after we were back in the Championship.
 
Sothall_Blade said:
Those signings make sense in the context of a Championship wage bill for a Premiership club.
None of his signings were established Premiership players because he wasn’t allowed to pay Premiership wages.
Therefore, you are correct in saying that they were all gambles on Championship or foreign players who may or may not come good.
Hulse, CKR, Stead, Kenny, Geary, Armstrong, Morgan, Jagielka and Tonge were all Championship players who didn't look out of place in the Premiership.

McCabe didn't increase the wage bill sufficiently to sign the likes of Beattie (for example) until after we were back in the Championship.
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Very true our top earner was jagielka on 13k a year
We tried to sign the likes of benni mccarthy who was outside our budget by about 4 times what we could afford his agent laughed at us
We had the lowest budget in the league even lower than watford and were relagated on the last day thanks to a goal by a world class player who had played illegaly all season
 
judge said:
Very true our top earner was jagielka on 13k a year
We tried to sign the likes of benni mccarthy who was outside our budget by about 4 times what we could afford his agent laughed at us
We had the lowest budget in the league even lower than watford and were relagated on the last day thanks to a goal by a world class player who had played illegaly all season
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Warnock also tried to sign Cameron Jerome as a teenager but couldn't afford Cardiff's £3M valuation of him:-

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11683/2362517/blades-prepare-jerome-bid

He's gone on to make about 300 appearances at Premiership or high Championship level.
A typical example of United saving a few quid in the short-term and it costing us Millions in the long-term.
Stephen Warnock was another one in the January transfer window. He went elsewhere for Premiership wages.
 
Bayingblade said:
One more poxy goal would have done it, even a last minute consolation at Villa, or Danny Webber not bottling that penalty against Chelsea, or.....

Or.....!:mad:
Click to expand...

No it wouldn't. One more goal would have given us the same goal difference as Wigan, but they had scored (and conceded) more goals than us, so would still have stayed up at our expense. We needed 2 more goals.
 



Sothall_Blade said:
Warnock also tried to sign Cameron Jerome as a teenager but couldn't afford Cardiff's £3M valuation of him:-

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11683/2362517/blades-prepare-jerome-bid

He's gone on to make about 300 appearances at Premiership or high Championship level.
A typical example of United saving a few quid in the short-term and it costing us Millions in the long-term.
Stephen Warnock was another one in the January transfer window. He went elsewhere for Premiership wages.
Click to expand...
He also had a deal lined up for andy reid if we stayed up
 
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