For those who think keeping NC was the answer.

[LoughboroBlade]

Wilson, chance of winning the league if he won 2 of the remaining 4

Or alternatively, would have been promoted had we gained 5 points from a possible 9 rather than 2.

Wilson's biggest mistake was pinning our "Plan B" on perma-injured Will Hoskins and completely-past-it James Beattie. There were obviously circumstances he had no control over at the end of the season – on this point though, we could have had a better back-up plan.

 

[Ashtonsmashton]

Or alternatively, would have been promoted had we gained 5 points from a possible 9 rather than 2.

Wilson's biggest mistake was pinning our "Plan B" on perma-injured Will Hoskins and completely-past-it James Beattie. There were obviously circumstances he had no control over at the end of the season – on this point though, we could have had a better back-up plan.

I meant the season he was sacked

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Clough is the only one to make progress in this shitty division. At the moment adkins is heading for the one to have made least.

It's true, isn't it?

Wonder though if there's a managerial equivalent of the problem new bands face with "difficult second album syndrome" down here in the depths?

Wilson's second season was awful & we declined badly. Weir (despite promising signings) wasn't able to get anywhere near a whole season, let alone a second season, so can't test the theory in his case. Cloughy's second season was awful but, even so, we improved from a low achieving base. Now, if Adkins has an awful second season, then we truly are fucked.

 

[super_pig]

The real downward spiral was Adams sacking off Bartley and Leon Britton and replacing them with Collins and Doyle.

Amen.

 

[BushBlade]

Or alternatively, would have been promoted had we gained 5 points from a possible 9 rather than 2.

Wilson's biggest mistake was pinning our "Plan B" on perma-injured Will Hoskins and completely-past-it James Beattie. There were obviously circumstances he had no control over at the end of the season – on this point though, we could have had a better back-up plan.

With hindsight though, do you think Beattie was a Wilson signing? We know Kitson wasn't.

 

[PeteBlade]

Explain how wilson made progress when he failed in a play off final and the next season only just made the playoffs. ( yes i include Morgan games).
Ultimately it was not his fault as always it is down to this crap Chaiman who in any other business would be long gone.

Apart from only missing out on promotion due to the morals of Ched Evans and narrowly losing the play off final on penalties playing the best football in years?

Wilson has clearly been our best manager since relegation. By far.

 

[alcoblade]

Winning football matches and enjoying football matches are exactly what we need. There has been less of both since we sacked Nigel the 1st.

I was bored shitless last season. Whatever is happening now, it doesn't make last season enjoyable.

UTB

 

[Barney]

I was bored shitless last season. Whatever is happening now, it doesn't make last season enjoyable.

UTB

He didn't say it was enjoyable. He said it has been less enjoyable.

 

[alcoblade]

He didn't say it was enjoyable. He said it has been less enjoyable.

And I didn't say he did.

UTB

 

[Barney]

And I didn't say he did.

UTB

So why say "it doesn't make last season enjoyable", when that wasn't what he was claiming?

 

[alcoblade]

So why say "it doesn't make last season enjoyable", when that wasn't what he was claiming?

Because I'm making slightly different point. I don't want to stick with awful football just in case it gets worse. It was terrible last season, and other than the time factor (Christmas) worthy of the sack.

The thread is about sticking with NC, however much you want to turn it into your millionth Adkins borefest.

UTB

 

[boo radley]

Que

Did I not say it was not his fault?
The fact remains NC is the only manager to make progress in the last 6 seasons.

 

[boo radley]

Apart from only missing out on promotion due to the morals of Ched Evans and narrowly losing the play off final on penalties playing the best football in years?

Wilson has clearly been our best manager since relegation. By far.

Wilson had the resources to do that in his first season.
His team from the second season also had resouces despite his squad being ripped apart at the end of the first. If only Blackman wasn't sold eh in his second.
That squad was better than NCs and he failed.
It is quite simple. NC got us up to 7th then 5th. The only manager to improve our position from the low starting point that was David Wier.
PS: I loved DWs 1st season until that Friday.

 

[PeteBlade]

Did I not say it was not his fault?
The fact remains NC is the only manager to make progress in the last 6 seasons.

But only by default because of how bad a position Weir had us in.

 

[Lane Ender]

Did I not say it was not his fault?
The fact remains NC is the only manager to make progress in the last 6 seasons.

Wilsons side the first season was superior to any of Cloughs sides.

 

[boo radley]

But only by default because of how bad a position Weir had us in.

That is a silly thing to say. He got a squad and team working together that the previous manager failed to do. Then he improved it in the January. The cup run was not Luck. It was belief and determination and the league form benefited from it. It is all too easy for people to dismiss the cup runs because of where we are but they were and are a greater achievement that the cup runs of the Tripple assault season.
I really have not got a clue if as suggested he built too big a squad with mediocre players? But again if that was the case who was keeping an eye on the financial situation?
He failed if it was his job to get us up within 18 months.
Still it is a fact that he has been our best manager at this level this time.

 

[PeteBlade]

That is a silly thing to say. He got a squad and team working together that the previous manager failed to do. Then he improved it in the January. The cup run was not Luck. It was belief and determination and the league form benefited from it. It is all too easy for people to dismiss the cup runs because of where we are but they were and are a greater achievement that the cup runs of the Tripple assault season.
I really have not got a clue if as suggested he built too big a squad with mediocre players? But again if that was the case who was keeping an eye on the financial situation?
He failed if it was his job to get us up within 18 months.
Still it is a fact that he has been our best manager at this level this time.

It's not a fact though. As previous managers had us finishing higher and into play off finals.

Those are facts.

He improved us that season though, there's no denying that.

 

[boo radley]

Wilsons side the first season was superior to any of Cloughs sides.

Of course it was by miles. What are you missing?
He had all the resources of a championship team.
His 2nd team was also. He failed. He finished in a worse position in his 2nd season than the first.
Clogh finished higher in his 2nd than his 1st so he is the only manager to make progress.
If NCs remit was to get us up in 18 months he also failed but he still is the 1 to make progress.

 

[boo radley]

It's not a fact though. As previous managers had us finishing higher and into play off finals.

Those are facts.

He improved us that season though, there's no denying that.

Sorry by all measures IT IS A FACT.
He had non of the resouces that DW had.
He did not inherit a great squad like DW did and he made progress DW finished lower so he lost progress.

 

[Lane Ender]

Of course it was by miles. What are you missing?
He had all the resources of a championship team.
His 2nd team was also. He failed. He finished in a worse position in his 2nd season than the first.
Clogh finished higher in his 2nd than his 1st so he is the only manager to make progress.
If NCs remit was to get us up in 18 months he also failed but he still is the 1 to make progress.

He didn't build on that first season we had a really poor pre season.
The football dished up last season was awfull
Now you're going to say now " what about this season"
And lm going to say "it's what Adklns inherited from Clough"
Round and round we go.

 

[PeteBlade]

Sorry by all measures IT IS A FACT.
He had non of the resouces that DW had.
He did not inherit a great squad like DW did and he made progress DW finished lower so he lost progress.

The league position and the play off final are both very real facts.

Not opinions and guesses about what players cost and what resources we may or may not have.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Because I'm making slightly different point. I don't want to stick with awful football just in case it gets worse. It was terrible last season, and other than the time factor (Christmas) worthy of the sack.

The thread is about sticking with NC, however much you want to turn it into your millionth Adkins borefest.

UTB

Football bad last season , football bad this season.

Only difference between Yeovil last season and Gillingham this season both more than dire . One was on a Tuesday and one was on a Saturday. One near the end of the season . One at the beginning of the season.

Both managers a big dispointment . Before anybody says why . Look at the footy we play , never mind chucking the results into the equation.

Pissed off from Eckington, but still a blade through and through.

UTB

 

[UnitedBlade]

The current run rate of the clubs in 3rd to 6th place suggests the 3rd placed side will get 80 points.

Which would mean that Burton only need 13 points from 11 games to go up.That is slightly above "relegation form"

Of course the clubs jockeying for position could do even better but 84/85 points will secure promotion this season I think.

I'm not Clough's biggest fan but I can't see him cocking this up.

It also underlines again our missed opportunity this season but we'll be nowhere near 84 points, probably miss by about 20 points the way we are going.

 

[Lane Ender]

The current run rate of the clubs in 3rd to 6th place suggests the 3rd placed side will get 80 points.

Which would mean that Burton only need 13 points from 11 games to go up.That is slightly above "relegation form"

Of course the clubs jockeying for position could do even better but 84/85 points will secure promotion this season I think.

I'm not Clough's biggest fan but I can't see him cocking this up.

It also underlines again our missed opportunity this season but we'll be nowhere near 84 points, probably miss by about 20 points the way we are going.

I think he'll just makes the play offs and he'll fuck up again.

 

[Gordon cowans]

To most if you like me im guessing sufc is a religion and everything related at BDTBL is treasured but most would say its entertainment.
Its sport,it's simply entertainment?!?!.
The most ive been entertained in recent history is under clough.
Understandable it was the cups but HT v hull in london and che's 2nd v spurs just to name a couple of many.
Thats entertainment.
Nigel mark 2 may give us loads of entertainment in waiting but as to press it has to be clough........what's weird i was over the moon wen clough went and adkins was appointed.
Thats dissapointment.
UTB

 

[boo radley]

He didn't build on that first season we had a really poor pre season.
The football dished up last season was awfull
Now you're going to say now " what about this season"
And lm going to say "it's what Adklns inherited from Clough"
Round and round we go.

The league position and the play off final are both very real facts.

Not opinions and guesses about what players cost and what resources we may or may not have.

It is quite simple that you both don't seem to grasp.
DW finished worse in his 2nd season. NC finished better in his 2nd season. Therefore NC made progress and DW did not.it really is as simple as that.
My own opinion is neither should have been sacked.

 

[Slug]

It is quite simple that you both don't seem to grasp.
DW finished worse in his 2nd season. NC finished better in his 2nd season. Therefore NC made progress and DW did not.it really is as simple as that.
My own opinion is neither should have been sacked.

If you take into account points per game from When clough took over in his first season to the points per game he achieved in his second season i think you will find he got worse. That is after he had free reign to sign a boat load of his own players too

 

[alcoblade]

It is quite simple that you both don't seem to grasp.
DW finished worse in his 2nd season. NC finished better in his 2nd season. Therefore NC made progress and DW did not.it really is as simple as that.
My own opinion is neither should have been sacked.

What you say is true. It's also true that Wilson had to slash the budget enormously, and Clough was given lots of resource to build. It's not fair to talk about relative progress without factoring that in.

UTB

 

[boo radley]

What you say is true. It's also true that Wilson had to slash the budget enormously, and Clough was given lots of resource to build. It's not fair to talk about relative progress without factoring that in.

UTB

I did mention all that if you read what I have said in earlier posts. I also mention that in DWs second season he had better players than Clough did.
And the fact DW had the rug pulled and Blackman etc.
So many think DW was a better manager and should not have been sacked. I do not believe he is a better manager.
Either way I think neither should have been sacked.
The debate about if NC would have done better this season is irrelevant as well. He was not given the opportunity to succeed or fail. The team would have been very different. In other words they both had the rug pulled too early.
Many think NCs tactics and football was crap to watch. It was better than DWs second season. I think the play off crowds may also back this up.
I'm sure the crowd against Yeovil was not as big as the crowd against Swindon by around 5K. So Swindon bring more? but I would dare to suggest that our portion of support was greater in the match against Swindon, possibly suggesting that our fans had more faith in the 4th year play off than the second year play off. Possibly again because they had more faith in NC succeeding than DW succeeding or it could simply be that DW steam for the play offs were not as entertaining as NC team. Simple speculation of course.
My own thought is that DWs team looked less likely to make it than NCs team.

 

[Davie Blade]

However. All Burton's League games under Clough: Won 8, Drawn 3, Lost 4. Pts 27.
That would equate to 83 points.
Easily good enough for the play-offs.
Or should we exclude some of the games he won to make it sound like he's doing worse than he actually is?

Or should we include the games he was not in charge of to make it sound like he's doing better than he actually is ?

Clough was not in charge for the Gillingham game! FACT
Lets call it New manager syndrome also known as Dead cat bounce!

He inherited a side getting 2.1 pts a game

The correct stats are
P14 W7 D3 L4 Pts 24 equates to 1.7 pts a game. Or 79. pts


His last 10 games are W4 D2 L4 Pts 14 1.4 pts a game equates to 66 pts

last 6 games just 4 goals
2.1 ,1.7, 1.4.
SLIDE
SLIDE SLIDE