Tuesday 1st March

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grafikhaus said:
OK. The facts.
Clough came in at match 14 (Crewe at home) we won and we were on 12 points. Fourteen games into Clough's tenure (Match 27, again at Crewe, a disgraceful 0-3 defeat) and the Mighty Clough had accrued a total of 26 points - that's 14 points in 14 games.In the final 10 games of that season, we gained just 15 points, effectively ending our promotion challenge and finishing seventh and 7 points behind 6th place. Clough's first game was on 26th October, 2013. He had just over six months to 'save' us.

I find the thought that Clough 'saved us from relegation' laughable. Instead, his inconsistencies cost us a play-off place.
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Did we get relegated that season?
 



grafikhaus said:
OK. The facts.
Clough came in at match 14 (Crewe at home) we won and we were on 12 points. Fourteen games into Clough's tenure (Match 27, again at Crewe, a disgraceful 0-3 defeat) and the Mighty Clough had accrued a total of 26 points - that's 14 points in 14 games.In the final 10 games of that season, we gained just 15 points, effectively ending our promotion challenge and finishing seventh and 7 points behind 6th place. Clough's first game was on 26th October, 2013. He had just over six months to 'save' us.

I find the thought that Clough 'saved us from relegation' laughable. Instead, his inconsistencies cost us a play-off place.
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You missed the bit where he did well on purpose didn't you? I see a lot of people do that to back their point up. Its poor form.

I don't think he is any messiah and certainly not in the Bassett/Warnock mould but people (like you just did) conveniently forget what someone does just to make their point. I saw the mans flaws and lets be honest season 2 was a massive disappointment for all but don't gerrymander the facts just to make your point look better.
 
Deleted Member said:
In all fairness the Sex Pistols were like punk rocks version of One Direction, and Malcolm McLaren was effectively the 1970s version of Simon Cowell.

If anyone wants to listen to some classic punk, then I would suggest having a listen to The Ramones, Blondie, The Buzzcocks, Souizee and the Banshees, Sham 69, The Clash and Stiff Little Fingers, as well as some early Jam stuff.
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Ahh you beat me to it Brownie. You see Lydon and his cronies were all managed to be seen as bad boys, filling a hole in the market. They were actually the ultimate sell out. To the point where their manager got arrested for promotional purposes. A consumer driven product to meet the need of the masses. Capitalism at its best. Then you come to problem number 2. It's hard to point out how shit and unequal the world is when you have money in the bank. The very people you are pointing the stick at are the ones helping you to line your pockets.

Lydon is to anger what Hayden Christensen is to acting, not very convincing.

You may guess, I am not entirely a fan.
 
Clough needs a round of boo's he has left us with a bloated and unbalanced squad that will be very hard to move on until the summer, in effect despite the cup runs and one of the largest budgets in league one he has set us back two years. Clough turned out as some predicted he would .............. fookin rubbish.
 
HeCanDoMagic said:
The date we play Burton at home and thus sees Nigel Clough visit BDTBL.

Two questions;
  1. What reception will you personally give him (ie what do you think he deserves)
  2. What reception do you expect from the majority
Personally, I think he deserves a warm reception - he pulled us out of one of the darkest corners of history we have found ourselves in. And no one can deny the buzz and passion he brought back with that cup run - that was truly magical.

I know in his second season thinks went a bit astray, and we suffered what most considered boring tactics and a frustrating campaign. Unfortunately I think this is what the majority will remember him for and I expect him to get a mixed bag.

I do hope we treat him with a bit of class, and he has never talked badly about us to my knowledge. Nothing over the top though, and he can be sent packing without any points.
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il personally give him a warm reception he deserves it just like we would do to warnock if he bought qpr to the lane though i reckon the fans that didnt like him will boo him
 
loyalblade95 said:
il personally give him a warm reception he deserves it just like we would do to warnock if he bought qpr to the lane though i reckon the fans that didnt like him will boo him
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Had Clough deserted us for pastures new, he would deserve a poor welcome. That was not the case, he dug us out of the mire ,and gave us a day out at Wembley, a feat achieved by only a few League 1 managers.
Some of his signings in quantity and quality left much to be desired but he did his best. It would be a warmish welcome from me.
 
metalblade said:
Clough needs a round of boo's he has left us with a bloated and unbalanced squad that will be very hard to move on until the summer, in effect despite the cup runs and one of the largest budgets in league one he has set us back two years. Clough turned out as some predicted he would .............. fookin rubbish.
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Bearing in mind your world view on everything SUFC this news isn't quite as shocking as the recent passing of David Bowie though is it? When you say some, of course you mean you.
 
wizadry said:
Clough came to us in League one and left us in League one, I don't see what the big deal is. I won't applaud and I certainly won't boo, it really is that simple for me.
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Without labouring the point he left us somewhat higher up that division than he found us. My guess is the two cup semi finals and the sale of Harry also meant he left us on pretty much an even financial keel in spite of some wanking on about large budgets.
 
Because of the way he put himself and his feelings before the team and club it's a no from me, the butler and Collins situations were a disgrace and he should have been fired for the way he froze players out because of personal fall outs, a small man...... Yes...

Did he deserve sacking for losing the playoffs, no, but then that's not why he was sacked was it, but then we'll never know why he was fired unexpectedly mid meeting...
 



HeCanDoMagic said:
Did we get relegated that season?
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No, and we won't get relegated this season either. Doesn't make Adkins a 'saviour' though does it?

Clough will do well at Burton - probably get them promoted. But that's because Hasselbaink has done the groundwork so that Clough doesn't have to revert to his normal cautious, negative tactics when under pressure. (And they'll be straight back down after one season in the Champ.) The managerial philosophy of 'not losing' is appropriate when battling relegation. To challenge for promotion, an adventurous approach has to be adopted early in the campaign - another thing Clough lacks.
 
grafikhaus said:
No, and we won't get relegated this season either. Doesn't make Adkins a 'saviour' though does it?

.
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But Adkins didn't take over whilst we were stuck in the relegation zone, with the worse squad of players ever assembled, moral at an all time low, 12 points on the board and odds on for relegation - we were up shit creek and the paddle hadn't even been invented.

Are you saying Clough deserves no recognition for turning that season around?
 
grafikhaus said:
Pretty much. He had 2/3rds of the season, it's the Third Division and what he 'achieved' was hardly a 'Great Escape' such as Leicester achieved against proper opposition.
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I cant get my head round how someone could say any manager who did what Clough did that season would deserve no recognition.
 
HeCanDoMagic said:
I cant get my head round how someone could say any manager who did what Clough did that season would deserve no recognition.
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But what did he do? True, the Cup runs were exhilarating and the games v. Spurs, Southampton, Hull and Charlton will live with me for ever. But it's the League form that counts for teams like us. It's not as if we're actually going to win a Cup, is it? (If we'd beaten Hull, we'd have met Arsenal in the final and I think we can all guess how that would have ended). It's when the fixtures come out for the following season and we see that we are where we were the season before.

By the end of Clough's inaugural season (2013-14) we finished seventh - the only time we have failed to make the play-offs since we sank to the Third Division. By Clough's last game in the 2014-15 season, we had conspired to let in seven goals in the 2-leg playoff game v. Swindon.

Of course, 'achievement' and 'progress' can't just be measured by winning things (we won nothing under Bassett and Warnock, but we certainly progressed and achieved) but, as somebody has said earlier, Clough joined us in Division Three and he left us in Division Three. The same parameters apply to Adkins.
 
LYDON said:
Two semi-finals. Deal, big.

We failed in them.

Are we happy to applaud failure?
I'm not.

I like to win.
I applaud winning, not being a gallant fail.
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Unless you are approaching your 100th birthday (and congratulations on your grasp of technology if you are), and remember us winning the Fa Cup,
I would dare to suggest, for an albeit reluctant League One club, two Semi finals is pretty impressive.

Don`t think it`s ever been done before.
 
Treeton Blade said:
Unless you are approaching your 100th birthday (and congratulations on your grasp of technology if you are), and remember us winning the Fa Cup,
I would dare to suggest, for an albeit reluctant League One club, two Semi finals is pretty impressive.

Don`t think it`s ever been done before.
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Wycombe are the only other 3rd tier team to do it, I think, but not in successive years.
 
grafikhaus said:
But what did he do? True, the Cup runs were exhilarating and the games v. Spurs, Southampton, Hull and Charlton will live with me for ever. But it's the League form that counts for teams like us. It's not as if we're actually going to win a Cup, is it? (If we'd beaten Hull, we'd have met Arsenal in the final and I think we can all guess how that would have ended). It's when the fixtures come out for the following season and we see that we are where we were the season before.

By the end of Clough's inaugural season (2013-14) we finished seventh - the only time we have failed to make the play-offs since we sank to the Third Division. By Clough's last game in the 2014-15 season, we had conspired to let in seven goals in the 2-leg playoff game v. Swindon.

Of course, 'achievement' and 'progress' can't just be measured by winning things (we won nothing under Bassett and Warnock, but we certainly progressed and achieved) but, as somebody has said earlier, Clough joined us in Division Three and he left us in Division Three. The same parameters apply to Adkins.
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We progressed from a relegation threatened awful squad, to one that was challenging for the play-offs and in semi finals of cup competitions.
 
HeCanDoMagic said:
Are you saying Clough deserves no recognition for turning that season around?
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Of course he deserves some credit but its very easy to over-egg his achievements and even then those have to be counter-balanced with some of his ineptitudes (squad building,man management, tactical awareness, footballing "style"). Measures - Semi-finals-yes , promotion (the real test) - no. Weir was the bottom of the well, even Morgs was making a better fist of it than him. Clough had money to spend which Weir and Morgan didn't and its arguable that any experienced manager would have avoided the drop. I've no axe to grind with the bloke, but he's gone, history and SUFC moves on and, as Clough isn't with us, then he is definitely against us when Burton Albion come to visit. In his very few comments since getting the push he shows little warmth to SUFC calling us "Sheffield". I hope we spank them.
 
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