The "foul"

[Flatulent_Bob]

Good post.

Maybe it was a the conscious reaction of a player with no conscience.

He was fouled and made sure the ref knew about it. If referees were infallible and saw everything then I could see your point, but he was fouled in the last minutes of a game they were struggling to win and he made sure he got he decision his team should have been given.

 

[sitwell]

Yep Brayford got turned by a £25m player after 90+ mins, and Hammond was slightly reckless, and Coutts was behind him covering but we held a team that had all the big boys in which has had a quarter of a billion pounds spent on it. We did well.

Yep a £25 player who had only been on 30 minutes against players who had defended incessantly for 90 minutes. The conditions were much worse than appeared on TV too ,it was pissing it down from start to finish and the pitch would have been very slippy. I thing that narked most fans who were there were the decisions previous by the ref and his body language ,he gave them foul after foul and gave us none as though he wanted to give them the game and he couldn't wait to give the pen. I agree with a comment before ,you can keep the premiership for me ,its not sport.

 

[sitwell]

Hope that is the beer talking and not you being a prick. No joy anywhere at the penalty but anyone who thinks it isn't wants their head looking at. Firstly as per the rules he made contact with the man before the ball. Secondly he went to ground to make that contact. Had he been on his feet then he puts the referee in a position where there are other factors to consider. He slides in and rakes his studs down the blokes shin. He does, you can't avoid the fact it happens. I wish it hadn't and I even wish the ref hadn't seen it and we had got away with it. Then we would be talking about a replay. That is what we deserved and wanted.

Although I assume in the eyes of some being a bigger blade is summed up in the denial of such things. I must not be a bigger blade.

Still think hes more of a Blade than some this morning ,so I suppose Im a prick. Unfortunately some on here gloat and relish everything that goes against Utd.

 

[Bladesway]

Still think hes more of a Blade than some this morning ,so I suppose Im a prick. Unfortunately some on here gloat and relish everything that goes against Utd.

I don't see it, not on this occasion. Think people are gutted at the manner of defeat but I don't see anyone saying "yeah, we lost". There are some cases where it does happen this isn't one of them.

 

[penthouseblade]

If you think that's a foul you're a fucking idiot. It is not a foul in a million years, it's a blatant dive and that is the end of it.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

He was fouled and made sure the ref knew about it. If referees were infallible and saw everything then I could see your point, but he was fouled in the last minutes of a game they were struggling to win and he made sure he got he decision his team should have been given.

He wasn't fouled

 

[northsomersetblade]

You've been here less than a year and you've come to the assumption that you can call fans out as Pigs because they disagree with you?
Not hard to see what role you provide in your Somerset village.

What role is that, I have no idea?

Of course I have always lived here, have never moved anywhere for a job, support the Blades by random chance, and would certainly not be able to walk around Sheffield blindfold. I can remember you from Bladesmad, but you should maybe change your name to pompous bob because it would suit you better.

Oh, and Blackadder is totally overrated as well.

 

[judge]

Clear foul
Total unnecassary tackle
Simulation from striker
Ref given no choice

Imagine the furore in the media today if he hadnt given it he would be in hiding

 

[Blade56]

It's a penalty but no need to condem Hammond, he had run his socks off and tried to cover Brayford getting flanked (for the first time in the match). It happens! A billion pound team playing a 3-4 million pound team. They were desperate we were resolute. The only plus would have been a financial reward for a replay at ours. The cash would pour in and never resurface. What we need to do is show that level of commitment and determination in L1 games with the players we have. On the other hand we can't win promotion with 10 men behind the ball and taking the lone striker off (Sammon was not playing strike after Billy was taken off)

 

[him behind you]

He's every right to go down if fouled.

Not disagreeing with that. But the way he went down was a dive because it wasn't natural.

 

[DronnieBlade]

It's 3, somewhere in between, and a penalty. The reaction of the player is irrelevant given it was a foul due to the clear contact. If he hadn't been touched, then it's a dive. He was clearly fouled, it's a clear penalty, I really don't understand what we are arguing about here.
Let's try this; if that happened in our box would you have been as staunch in your opinion that the ref shouldn't have given it and waved play on? I'm certain you would have been screaming for it and grumbling about not getting the big decisions against the big clubs.

You are wrong with this assumption.

While I would happily concede that, if the shoe was on the other foot, as a fan, I would WANT the penalty to be awarded our way, I would also accept that if the penalty was awarded, it would have been a poor refereeing decision that had given it. A "soft" penalty so to say that just happened to go our way (for once !)

If you can not overlook the fact that contact was made, and it was, and that as a result a penalty HAS to be given, then we are poles apart in our views on this and its probs best leave it at that.

UTB.

 

[JJBlade]

Nailed on penalty all day long.
Don't know how anyone can moan about it, he's slid in missed the ball and then hit his left leg with his studs.
I think his shin pad was broken as well

 

[vorpal blade]

was it deliberate - NO

was it reckless - NO.......... I take reckless to mean - not concerned with the effects of the tackle, in terms of possibly bring down the player or injuring him.

that is the law on tackles isn't it? what Hammond did would never have injured or impeded the player (and he was trying to pull out by the time he made contact)

its only reckless when you consider the situation, a ref. in awe of the atmosphere and venue and the players - and the convention of thinking that contact means foul, it does not.

He couldn't wait to let Man Utd. win in his pea-brain thats the natural order of things isn't it?

 

[vorpal blade]

I think this is a bleak day for us - Man. Utd were there for the taking had our subs been used to take the game to them in the second-half, we were a pale shadow of Clough's cup teams.

(Oh and JJ. I thought Memphis's messing about with his shin pad and his socks to prove some sort of point about the penalty was Am Dram twattery - he protesteth too much for anyone to be fooled by it)

 

[JohnDenver]

I think this is a bleak day for us - Man. Utd were there for the taking had our subs been used to take the game to them in the second-half, we were a pale shadow of Clough's cup teams.

It's not a bleak day. Getting mullered at home by Shrewsbury is bleak. But I agree on these points - Man U made it incredibly easy for us, this team can't match Clough's on the break, and we really should have had a replay.

But one mistake and it's taken away. Not to worry - it's the playoffs that really count.

 

[vorpal blade]

Not if we aren't in them

 

[him behind you]

You are wrong with this assumption.

While I would happily concede that, if the shoe was on the other foot, as a fan, I would WANT the penalty to be awarded our way, I would also accept that if the penalty was awarded, it would have been a poor refereeing decision that had given it. A "soft" penalty so to say that just happened to go our way (for once !)

If you can not overlook the fact that contact was made, and it was, and that as a result a penalty HAS to be given, then we are poles apart in our views on this and its probs best leave it at that.

UTB.

If it had been on the other foot against Billy and not given, I'm sure some people would have rolled out the "always on his arse" and "goes down too easily " comments rather than claiming it was a clear penalty. ;-)

 

[vorpal blade]

p.s. the trouble is the word "careless"

being careful about the way you drive a bulldozer being on a different scale from being careful about how you perform an eye operation.

 

[Dnblade]

Definate Pen for me,but I don't blame Hammond as he had a good game and ran himself into the ground..shame he dived in when Coutts was covering but no complaints about the decision.

 

[Maidenhead]

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so it was a definite penalty the. Careless tackle and kicked an opponent.

I had no argument at the time and still don't.

Brayford got done for pace and Hammond dives in recklessly.

 

[vorpal blade]

Maidenhead, it was careless, in that he should have known that most people think merely touching an opponent legitimises a penalty.

But that for me is what is wrong with the game post Colina.

NO not reckless....but depending on interpretation, possibly careless.

 

[vorpal blade]

The thing is then, all the people who think it was a penalty, think that the referee did his job correctly.

But if you think the referee did his job correctly and bearing in mind that he did not speak to or caution Memphis about 'simulation' - you can't think that there was 'simulation' either?

So is it just me (and a few others) who saw a grown man jump in the air grabbing his legs theatrically?

ANYWAY, I KNOW I'M ON THE LOSING SIDE IN THIS CONVERSATION- IT'S JUST THAT ONE OF THE REASONS I, AND MANY OTHER PEOPLE LIKE ME ARE TURNED AWAY FROM FOOTBALL, IS THE COMPLICIT AGREEMENT BETWEEN PLAYERS AND REFEREES THAT IF THERE IS 'CONTACT' WITH THE FOOT AND PART OF ANOTHER PLAYER'S BODY THEN IT IS NECESSARILY A FOUL.....IT NEVER USED TO BE THE CASE. THE PLAY ACTING (AND MEMPHIS CERTAINLY PLAY ACTED) MAKES THE GAME A LAUGHING STOCK TO MANY WHO WOULD OTHERWISE FOLLOW IT.

 

[derryblade]

Penalty everyday of the week Hammond slide in and took the players left leg out. Should the player have reached the penalty with minutes to go definitely not, JB should have took one for the team, but that's being over critical tiredness obviously had a part in both instances. We move on.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

What role is that, I have no idea?

Of course I have always lived here, have never moved anywhere for a job, support the Blades by random chance, and would certainly not be able to walk around Sheffield blindfold. I can remember you from Bladesmad, but you should maybe change your name to pompous bob because it would suit you better.

Oh, and Blackadder is totally overrated as well.

Pompous Bob - very good.

Oh, and I don't care where you are from or how many games you go to, that doesn't define a Blade for me. I just simply suggesting your village was missing it's idiot to announce I support Sheffield Wednesday simply because I disagree with you, especially given you've only been here two mins. Pretty pompous wouldn't you agree?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

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p.s. the trouble is the word "careless"

being careful about the way you drive a bulldozer being on a different scale from being careful about how you perform an eye operation.

It was both careless and reckless wasn't it? He wasn't in control once he slid as he could let stop.

 

[vorpal blade]

No mate. it was neither.

reckless means doing something thats going to hurt someone else but you didn't think - careless, well that is the get out for the ref. careless in the context of a game where its fair for Derry to say "Penalty everyday of the week Hammond slide in and took the players left leg out" but not by the laws of the game and the meaning of the word 'careless' is so flexible.

[Derry is applying the common law isn't he? and yet the Laws of the game are 'statute'...no?]

It struck me that having the words 'careless' and 'reckless' used for one rule in the FIFA laws was possibly quite careless in itself

- Spanish,Mandarin, Japanese and German speakers will tell me if these are separate concepts in these languages

 

[Rodders]

No mate. it was neither.

reckless means doing something thats going to hurt someone else but you didn't think - careless, well that is the get out for the ref. careless in the context of a game where its fair for Derry to say "Penalty everyday of the week Hammond slide in and took the players left leg out" but not by the laws of the game and the meaning of the word 'careless' is so flexible.

[Derry is applying the common law isn't he? and yet the Laws of the game are 'statute'...no?]

It struck me that having the words 'careless' and 'reckless' used for one rule in the FIFA laws was possibly quite careless in itself

- Spanish,Mandarin, Japanese and German speakers will tell me if these are separate concepts in these languages

He dived in and took the player, not the ball. In what way was it not a penalty?

 

[vorpal blade]

because it wasn't careless, reckless or excessively forceful.

Memphis made sure that he got 'kicked' by Hammond, it was not the other way about.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

The thing is then, all the people who think it was a penalty, think that the referee did his job correctly.

But if you think the referee did his job correctly and bearing in mind that he did not speak to or caution Memphis about 'simulation' - you can't think that there was 'simulation' either?

So is it just me (and a few others) who saw a grown man jump in the air grabbing his legs theatrically?

ANYWAY, I KNOW I'M ON THE LOSING SIDE IN THIS CONVERSATION- IT'S JUST THAT ONE OF THE REASONS I, AND MANY OTHER PEOPLE LIKE ME ARE TURNED AWAY FROM FOOTBALL, IS THE COMPLICIT AGREEMENT BETWEEN PLAYERS AND REFEREES THAT IF THERE IS 'CONTACT' WITH THE FOOT AND PART OF ANOTHER PLAYER'S BODY THEN IT IS NECESSARILY A FOUL.....IT NEVER USED TO BE THE CASE. THE PLAY ACTING (AND MEMPHIS CERTAINLY PLAY ACTED) MAKES THE GAME A LAUGHING STOCK TO MANY WHO WOULD OTHERWISE FOLLOW IT.

I sort of agree about the rolling around & the gurning in the aftermath of the challenge - totally unnecessary (& bordering on cheating).

But it 100% was a penalty that the ref was right to give. Which is the nub of the matter when all's said & done.

And it was a foolishly rash challenge that could easily have ended in a broken leg. Memphis was totally justified in jumping up & out of the way of it once contact was made - if his studs had caught in the ground, he'd be in hospital now.

Memphis made all the difference to them, he was their one spark of creativity & he injected some genuine pace & threat.

 

[vorpal blade]

well, I'll have another look at the replays but when I saw it before, I thought that there was very little momentum left in Hammond's slide AND he was bending his knee by the time he touched Memphis's leg so he wouldn't hurt him.


What I have NEVER seen is a penalty or free-kick given AND the winner of the free-kick or penalty booked or sent-off for 'simulation'.

and it wasn't 'bordering on cheating'......it was cheating or simulation as FIFA has it.