Them and Us

[Jan Age]

Does anyone else find it easier to have a them and us scenario with our current board?

I started off the season willing to give this 'all in it together' mentality a go. But since week one it's been eroded away.

I've now decided that it's them and us, after all how can we be in it together with certain people never in the country?

I've grown tired of Jim Phipps' attempts at being 'one of the lads' and trying to put across a Sheffield accent on Twitter. I appreciate his attempts to communicate but he comes across as head of a fan group and not a creditable chairman.

I also feel the fans are being lied to to some extent despite 'attempts' at transparency.

So for me it's a 'them and us' ... Surely that's the natural order anyway?

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Dammed if they do....

At the end of the day they want the same as us.

 

[wizadry]

Dammed if they do....

At the end of the day they want the same as us.

They have a funny way of showing it Jim

 

[davidpinder]

Does anyone else find it easier to have a them and us scenario with our current board?

I started off the season willing to give this 'all in it together' mentality a go. But since week one it's been eroded away.

I've now decided that it's them and us, after all how can we be in it together with certain people never in the country?

I've grown tired of Jim Phipps' attempts at being 'one of the lads' and trying to put across a Sheffield accent on Twitter. I appreciate his attempts to communicate but he comes across as head of a fan group and not a creditable chairman.

I also feel the fans are being lied to to some extent despite 'attempts' at transparency.

So for me it's a 'them and us' ... Surely that's the natural order anyway?

With the situation we are in we need a hands on board inc chairman in the country at all times.

 

[WorkingtonBlade]

I don't think there's a problem with the way the club communicate or with the level of openness. I think the problem is the results on the field. Until those results improve, the board will not be popular, however they communicate.

If the results improve, I think people will appreciate the board's attempts to communicate rather than the silence we've tended to have in the past.

At the moment, it's difficult to point the finger too much at Adkins because he hasn't been here long and he has a track record of success at this level. People need to blame someone, so the only option left if to blame the board. In a few months time, if results don't improve, it will be considered time to declare open season on Adkins. After a few months of that he'll be sacked, and the cycle will re-start.

That's not to say we'll never get out of the cycle - we will. At some point we'll happen upon a winning combination and get promoted. But until then the blame the board, blame the manager, blame the board, blame the manager cycle will continue. How the board communicate won't make a lot of difference.

 

[Bladesway]

With the situation we are in we need a hands on board inc chairman in the country at all times.

Yes, micromanage the problem, that will sort it.

One question. Why?

 

[PeteBlade]

Dammed if they do....

At the end of the day they want the same as us.

Not quite.
We want promotion, success and a team to be proud of.
They want a return on their investment and profit.
This would be a byproduct of what we want.

 

[Jan Age]

I don't think there's a problem with the way the club communicate or with the level of openness. I think the problem is the results on the field. Until those results improve, the board will not be popular, however they communicate.

If the results improve, I think people will appreciate the board's attempts to communicate rather than the silence we've tended to have in the past.

At the moment, it's difficult to point the finger too much at Adkins because he hasn't been here long and he has a track record of success at this level. People need to blame someone, so the only option left if to blame the board. In a few months time, if results don't improve, it will be considered time to declare open season on Adkins. After a few months of that he'll be sacked, and the cycle will re-start.

That's not to say we'll never get out of the cycle - we will. At some point we'll happen upon a winning combination and get promoted. But until then the blame the board, blame the manager, blame the board, blame the manager cycle will continue. How the board communicate won't make a lot of difference.

I'm not blaming the board I actually think it's a valiant attempt that has ultimately failed. I also think that there are better (more formal) lines of communication that could be explored other than social media.

 

[Jan Age]

Yes, micromanage the problem, that will sort it.

One question. Why?

I don't think micromanage was mentioned but a visual leader with a real sense for what is going off day to day is worth a lot.

 

[Blade56]

HRH and co have had success in USA sport ownership and thought they could just buy a club (with a huge history) chuck a few squillion at it and they would be champions of the PL in a few years.

Derrrrrrrrrrrr if it were that easy, you've gotta bleed first

 

[Tezza1889]

I dunno, I was a bit pro board and positive about the rebuilding of our great club, but it seems that the only place they won't invest in real quality appears to be on the pitch, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that we needed to keep macdonald, who was sold as the prince arrived, just in time for the transfer window to close, was there a hint there of the game changing investment being bullshit?

Then maguire, and the failure to sign coady, which we could all se that regardless of him being a brilliant signing we could only ever make money on the deal, the only way we wouldnt have made money on coady was if we'd have gone up with him in the team and I'm sure that would be fine with the fans, then later on the sales again with Murphy, and I'm starting to wonder what's going on, you can't sell key players, man Utd still haven't got over Ronaldo leaving, you can't sell your best players, and if that means paying a bit more to keep em happy, then do it.... Btw, why wouldn't you want all those players who went on that league and cup run in your team, if you were serious at going up and you could sign coady, having seen how him scougs,Murphy, and the beard clicked in that run in, you'd be looking at the way out of league one in style, why didn't we pay the 500.000 when we could have?? And we could have too...

But, here's where the argument hits the skids, because Buffoon or not, clough was backed with around five million pounds by the board in league one, a huge amount, forget that he pretty much wasted it all except for Brayford, (who we weren't desperate for as far as player wise) and also done who was a good one, but at least he was backed, then onto Adkins who also has made decent (on paper) signings from the championship, and Hammond from the premier,not too shabby for league one..

In conclusion, I'm really confused and unsure who to lash out at for our failings so I'm gonna suck it up and stick it out with Adkins up until the board make a scapegoat of him, you know they will if results don't change, and quickly... que sera sera...

On a footnote, I got told that Adkins had the players Sussed very early on, but he's got to work with them till they can be released/ transferred...

I believe Adkins will get it right, but I also believe he could be gone before January if we don't halt the slide.... In conclusion, were a club, team and fanbase totally confused at the moment, I'm not on any side...

 

[PeteBlade]

**This is my weekly reminder that Coady would not have signed for us in league one on a permanent basis**

 

[Tezza1889]

I got told he was very keen to return had great friends in the team, liked the club..

And we should remember this, we needed to sell ourselves to players who we knew could do a job for us, persuade them that we would build a team piece by piece and add quality player by player, build something capable of achieving then add to it, build a successful team and add to it with like minded players.. Move forward, achieve, not cash in and sell the future down the swanny, or pass up a sure thing.. We are bigger than Huddersfield, had a dream team board, and major investment, why choose them over us and a team he was buzzing with a month or so ago... It couldn't have been money, were loaded aren't we, aren't we?....

You can have your opinion mate, but this is how I saw actual game changing.. It was fuckng dumb not to sign him, promise them the earth, get them through the door, fucking sign them...

Gazza was stolen from man Utd because he wanted a house for his mom, venables made it happen, gazza was a Spurs legend.... It can be done if you have the drive once you've identified the player...

 

[PeteBlade]

It's not an opinion.

It came from the mouth of the player.

As much as he enjoyed his short time with us, he didn't want to sign on a permanent basis for a club in league one (with investment or not) and for the sake of his career, was looking at the championship minimum.

 

[Rodley]

I don't think there's a problem with the way the club communicate or with the level of openness. I think the problem is the results on the field. Until those results improve, the board will not be popular, however they communicate.

If the results improve, I think people will appreciate the board's attempts to communicate rather than the silence we've tended to have in the past.

At the moment, it's difficult to point the finger too much at Adkins because he hasn't been here long and he has a track record of success at this level. People need to blame someone, so the only option left if to blame the board. In a few months time, if results don't improve, it will be considered time to declare open season on Adkins. After a few months of that he'll be sacked, and the cycle will re-start.

That's not to say we'll never get out of the cycle - we will. At some point we'll happen upon a winning combination and get promoted. But until then the blame the board, blame the manager, blame the board, blame the manager cycle will continue. How the board communicate won't make a lot of difference.

Great post.

 

[Rodley]

It's not an opinion.

It came from the mouth of the player.

As much as he enjoyed his short time with us, he didn't want to sign on a permanent basis for a club in league one (with investment or not) and for the sake of his career, was looking at the championship minimum.

Fair enough Pete, but Mike on Twitter knows his cleaner's cousin, and she says otherwise. FACT.

 

[Jehovah]

If I messaged Jim on Twitter now, the chances are he would reply within a day. It's never felt less like them and us.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

If I messaged Jim on Twitter now, the chances are he would reply within a day. It's never felt less like them and us.

Yeah but he would reply with cliches and shit.

 

[Jehovah]

Yeah but he would reply with cliches and shit.

I don't expect him to reply with "You're right mate, we we're fucking wank. Fuck you Collins"

 

[Pollingtonblade]

I don't expect him to reply with "You're right mate, we we're fucking wank. Fuck you Collins"

He'd at least be honest if he did.

 

[Cyprus Blade]

the only place they won't invest in real quality appears to be on the pitch

What ? Pitch? - hey we bought a Desso pitch I know what you mean

This is going to sound like I am a clapper for the Board but I can see some progress being made in the club's structure.

If I messaged Jim on Twitter now, the chances are he would reply within a day. It's never felt less like them and us.

He would. I have and he did and it wasn't cliches and shit. Wasn't twitter though - it was Facebook. The stuff underneath is my own conjecture -I'm not claiming to have heard it from the horse's mouth.

I'm not saying that the Board have got it right but, to fix a problem you have first to acknowledge you have a problem. HRH and Jim are new to UK football ( but I think I read somewhere that they have an involvement in an Israeli club) and they got on board with a bloke who they could reasonably assume had a good grasp of the UK game - if only by virtue of the longevity of his tenure at the Lane. I'm guessing they took more of a back-seat at first, but the Board did get rid of Weir and appoint Clough and co (an old-fashioned manager) and they did get Brannigan who was supposed to be the bees knees having worked with Clough. Remember their first preference (it was stated in interviews at the time they joined) was outright ownership of a club but McCabe sold them the deal. Had they known the Evans affair was going to reach the proportions it did they may have thought twice about it and I do think it had a negative impact on the club at all levels.

So at the end of last season I am guessing the Prince ( who JP is on record as saying is not the most patient of men) got a bit antsy and JP stepped up looking at the club and challenging the "way things were done" so to speak. Probably the most revealing thing JP said a few weeks before the Play-off debacle was that the club were going to sit down and review the playing side and the back office ( Clough and Brannigan's empires). Before anyone says the timing wouldn't help Clough going into the play-offs remember the vitriol that was going Clough's way at the time because of declining performances. JP had to say something at the time to try and get NC and the club some breathing space to deal with the play-offs.

The important thing is that JP had identified that there were problems on and off the pitch. I don't think he is a soft touch and I do think he will play hardball if he has to. Since the end of the season they talked with NC about on the field stuff ( resulting in NC going - I am guessing that NC had a fair part to play in his downfall on that one - my way or the highway sort of thing) and they went with a bloke who almost everyone thought at the time was pretty much the ideal candidate. Off the field they got rid of Simon Clough who presided over an archaic scouting set-up and brought in a new Chief Scout with a respectable track record. They backed both of these with further money (despite the ever increasing wage bill) for new players the new Manager wanted.

Then they looked at Brannigan's empire and got rid of him, effectively splitting his job in two and getting expertise in both areas where he had failed (player negotiations and commercial expansion) They have also put in place a structure where the people who know about football and do the football deals are on the panel which decides on footballing matters - instead of the owner being the sole determining factor . In short they may not have got the structure right yet, they may not have got the right people yet but they do seem to be trying to address areas which have been chronic weaknesses in our set-up. With dual ownership will come some compromises and this may impact on the effectiveness of attempted solutions, but at least they have agreed on some problem areas. How it all plays out remains to be seen, especially whether dual ownership can work.

 

[dingledog]

'The important thing is that JP had identified that there were problems on and off the pitch' Genius. Really, there's a problem, a blindfolded Monkey would have reached the same conclusion and to date come up with a better set of solutions to the 'problems'. The management of the club is rotten from the top down. Mr Phipps is a good chap, but way out of his depth. He is the 'representative' of the Prince, so does he really make any decision?, if he does they have a common theme, they are appalling.

 

[finlaytheblade]

They have a funny way of showing it Jim

Any body who puts millions into a business wants it to succeed football's no different just that making
money out of a football club is almost impossible unless you sell to a buyer who gives you more than
you have put in.Uniteds owners are in that position so failure costs a lot of money especially when you
keep sacking managers (with all the costs incurred) as we do chasing success.
Take Chelsea for an example add Man City if you like!!,both these clubs have spent fortunes on players
the only way to do that is if the owners pump a fortune in cash to buy these players (how much would
These owners need to get a return on there money).
ON a smaller scale our owners have done a similar thing but so far without any success ,will they
Continue to do it with all the vitriol received from a section of fans (I hope so !!) the alternative is to flounder
in the lower leagues for years to come.To pull out now would mean losing the 10 million or so already invested
so surely that's not on the a gender is it?. We can effect things by with drawing our support (season tickets,
Super draw etc) would that help? in my opinion a Big No. Keep the faith Adkins will in my opinion get us out of
this league but we have already found it is not easy, positive not negative thinking is the way forward.
I think we have five big league games before we take on man utd would be nice to go into that game with a bit
of confidence we have pulled off some shocks recently it would be nice to add another (that would be great for
the army of fans who go) are we the original United !!! of course we are,we can do it.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

"They have also put in place a structure where the people who know about football and do the football deals are on the panel which decides on footballing matters -"

Who are these people?

Cyprus Blade

 

[TonyAgana]

I think it's unfair to suggest the board solely want a return on their investment. There's far better ways of making money than running a football club. I'd say they're also in it for the glory, the buzz of success. They may have come to the wrong place, of course!

 

[Bladesway]

I don't think micromanage was mentioned but a visual leader with a real sense for what is going off day to day is worth a lot.

It wasn't a response to your post, but it won't make a blind bit of difference. It is more fundamental than "visible presence" will solve. Leadership on the pitch would be a start. No one in the boardroom can change that. What will change things is if we stop selling our best players and replacing them with dross.

 

[Coily]

It's not an opinion.

It came from the mouth of the player.

As much as he enjoyed his short time with us, he didn't want to sign on a permanent basis for a club in league one (with investment or not) and for the sake of his career, was looking at the championship minimum.

And Coady would have been fucking barmy to think otherwise. Why on earth would you settle for L1 when the Championship (and most likely higher wages) was on offer? And from there he's gone on, and good luck to the lad. He is clearly ambitious, and like it or lump it a contract with Sheffield United would not have been an ambitious move for him.

Brayford is a very rare exception in that he fell for the club and was willing to drop down. The mad, mad fool!

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

I don't think there's a problem with the way the club communicate or with the level of openness. I think the problem is the results on the field. Until those results improve, the board will not be popular, however they communicate.

If the results improve, I think people will appreciate the board's attempts to communicate rather than the silence we've tended to have in the past.

At the moment, it's difficult to point the finger too much at Adkins because he hasn't been here long and he has a track record of success at this level. People need to blame someone, so the only option left if to blame the board. In a few months time, if results don't improve, it will be considered time to declare open season on Adkins. After a few months of that he'll be sacked, and the cycle will re-start.

That's not to say we'll never get out of the cycle - we will. At some point we'll happen upon a winning combination and get promoted. But until then the blame the board, blame the manager, blame the board, blame the manager cycle will continue. How the board communicate won't make a lot of difference.

Great post.

Fully agree with your points about the board. But there is one comment you make where I'd part company from you - the one where you say it's difficult to point the finger at Adkins.

Not that I'm advocating sacking him, far from it. But, despite him not being here long & his impressive track record, I do reckon he's gravely underperformed up to now - he's basically bollocksed up so far.

Yet, even so, that in itself doesn't need to lead on to the "we must do something" (i.e. sack the manager, in this case) mentality that seems to dominate British life these days.

We don't have to do something. For the reasons you suggest - his proven track record; his short tenure so far; the fact that he can draw on his experience & personal qualities so he can evaluate what's gone wrong & put it right - we can & should trust Adkins to be doing the something.

I don't see any inconsistency with criticising Adkins (heavily sometimes) while, at the same time, retaining an overall trust in him & a belief that he can tough the situation out & find solutions to the problems we face.

Broadly speaking, the same goes for the board - not immune to criticism, but criticism needn't imply wanting rid.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I got told he was very keen to return had great friends in the team, liked the club..

And we should remember this, we needed to sell ourselves to players who we knew could do a job for us, persuade them that we would build a team piece by piece and add quality player by player, build something capable of achieving then add to it, build a successful team and add to it with like minded players.. Move forward, achieve, not cash in and sell the future down the swanny, or pass up a sure thing.. We are bigger than Huddersfield, had a dream team board, and major investment, why choose them over us and a team he was buzzing with a month or so ago... It couldn't have been money, were loaded aren't we, aren't we?....

You can have your opinion mate, but this is how I saw actual game changing.. It was fuckng dumb not to sign him, promise them the earth, get them through the door, fucking sign them...

Gazza was stolen from man Utd because he wanted a house for his mom, venables made it happen, gazza was a Spurs legend.... It can be done if you have the drive once you've identified the player...

Are we all sure Clough rated Coady and actually wanted to sign him? He was a Weir signing and took a while to break into Clough's team as I recall, though he became a regular.

When United approached Liverpool weren't we told the fee was £1m plus? Did Clough want him at that price? By the time the price had dropped hadn't we moved on? Didn't Clough always want Coutts and Co? That summer Clough made a good few signings and we did end up with no end of midfielders anyway.

 

[TonyAgana]

Great post.

Fully agree with your points about the board. But there is one comment you make where I'd part company from you - the one where you say it's difficult to point the finger at Adkins.

Not that I'm advocating sacking him, far from it. But, despite him not being here long & his impressive track record, I do reckon he's gravely underperformed up to now - he's basically bollocksed up so far.

Yet, even so, that in itself doesn't need to lead on to the "we must do something" (i.e. sack the manager, in this case) mentality that seems to dominate British life these days.

We don't have to do something. For the reasons you suggest - his proven track record; his short tenure so far; the fact that he can draw on his experience & personal qualities so he can evaluate what's gone wrong & put it right - we can & should trust Adkins to be doing the something.

I don't see any inconsistency with criticising Adkins (heavily sometimes) while, at the same time, retaining an overall trust in him & a belief that he can tough the situation out & find solutions to the problems we face.

Broadly speaking, the same goes for the board - not immune to criticism, but criticism needn't imply wanting rid.

Another good post. Hurrah!

It's funny, someone tweeted a series of squad photos from the late 60s / early 70s and it struck me for how long TC didn't look like the iconic TC we all have in our minds-eye. Hopefully somebody ( Darren ) can tell me one way or another, but was that because he had a few seasons before his peak where he perhaps wasn't as brilliant as he is remembered? Fast-forward 40 years and look at Che Adams - fans demanding consistency from him and criticising his lack thereof. Patience and faith!