Nigel Clough..

[itsinyerblood]

Although this thread is titled 'Nigel Clough', comments have been raised about the nature of management in general.

If you manage to take a look at the specifics that surround managing a professional club I'd have thought that it's almost inconceivable for most managers not to have an inflated sense of self. It's almost a balancing act when you consider the fine line managers walk, one minute basking in the glory of a run of games where a team is undefeated, the next reading in the local press that the knives might be out for you if you can't halt a run where you've lost six games on the trot. Little wonder managers often embrace a highwire act where they look down on those other managers who can't seem to get a job.

They must all know that their futures are wrapped up in a set of variables that ask questions of even the most capable of men. Mind you, at the top level the rewards are quite amazing. Contracts based in the millions, more than enough to pay off a mortgage, drive high-end cars, and generally enjoy what most supporters can only dream about. So I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that some of the more established managers seem a tad unhinged at times, who knows how long their 'magic' will last? I was a pro-Brian Clough type. Always destined to clash with authority, Brian was a man who had the benefit of a more sober (meant figuratively, not in terms of the alcohol consumed) partner in Peter Taylor, always a man best suited to the role of second in command. When that security was no more Brian was never the same great manager. What can be said of Brian Clough is that the game was fascinating while he took 'little' Nottingham Forest to the peaks of football success. Football needs it's share of managerial dictators, near-lunatics, or those simply convinced they have a blueprint for success. Brian was one such I suspect, but none of this ever managed to deflect Brian's astute judgement of a player's capabilities, and perhaps it was this that allowed him to create teams of previously undistinguished players.

 

[BushBlade]

Although this thread is titled 'Nigel Clough', comments have been raised about the nature of management in general.

If you manage to take a look at the specifics that surround managing a professional club I'd have thought that it's almost inconceivable for most managers not to have an inflated sense of self. It's almost a balancing act when you consider the fine line managers walk, one minute basking in the glory of a run of games where a team is undefeated, the next reading in the local press that the knives might be out for you if you can't halt a run where you've lost six games on the trot. Little wonder managers often embrace a highwire act where they look down on those other managers who can't seem to get a job.

They must all know that their futures are wrapped up in a set of variables that ask questions of even the most capable of men. Mind you, at the top level the rewards are quite amazing. Contracts based in the millions, more than enough to pay off a mortgage, drive high-end cars, and generally enjoy what most supporters can only dream about. So I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that some of the more established managers seem a tad unhinged at times, who knows how long their 'magic' will last? I was a pro-Brian Clough type. Always destined to clash with authority, Brian was a man who had the benefit of a more sober (meant figuratively, not in terms of the alcohol consumed) partner in Peter Taylor, always a man best suited to the role of second in command. When that security was no more Brian was never the same great manager. What can be said of Brian Clough is that the game was fascinating while he took 'little' Nottingham Forest to the peaks of football success. Football needs it's share of managerial dictators, near-lunatics, or those simply convinced they have a blueprint for success. Brian was one such I suspect, but none of this ever managed to deflect Brian's astute judgement of a player's capabilities, and perhaps it was this that allowed him to create teams of previously undistinguished players.

Imagine if there were message boards when Clough took over at Forest:

'We don't want that Derby twat'

'he's just failed at Leeds and winning the league with Derby was a fluke'.

'Too arrogant, will never succeed here'

'Spends too much time on TV, full of himself'

'Should've gone for Jimmy Sirrel'.

 

[Revolution]

Imagine if there were message boards when Clough took over at Forest:

'We don't want that Derby twat'

'he's just failed at Leeds and winning the league with Derby was a fluke'.

'Too arrogant, will never succeed here'

'Spends too much time on TV, full of himself'

'Should've gone for Jimmy Sirrel'.

People said all those things on phone ins and in letters to the paper.

 

[AlienBlade]

Come the end of his tenure we had a massive, expensive squad, with very little quality. Whatever the details that brought us to that position, he was responsible for the overall outcome.

UTB

and yet Clough managed to get said squad in to the play offs... so EITHER

Clough was a fantastic motivator and was able to get such dross to perform well in advance of their skill.... (akin to Warnock) and poor Adkins can only work with decent players (although considering he has brought in 5 players Sharp, Sammon, Woolford, Hammond & Edgar with little effect on results despite being on a fair penny and supposingly from the "next level or beyond")

OR

the player he did bring were actually quality players that people dont appriciate hence getting to the play-offs and it was other problems which caused our problems...

I would also argue that this supposingly "massive squad" wasnt as massive as people make out (especially when you look at the injuries and those signed/brought through as "ones for the future")

taking out the long term injuries and "kids" the team was about averaged size...

with regards to the "Expensive" side... this wouldnt be down to Clough... this would technically be down to the CEO.... as he would negotiate wages (and we all know we wont overpay the wages considering how many players we missed out on....

 

[BushBlade]

and yet Clough managed to get said squad in to the play offs... so EITHER

Clough was a fantastic motivator and was able to get such dross to perform well in advance of their skill.... (akin to Warnock) and poor Adkins can only work with decent players (although considering he has brought in 5 players Sharp, Sammon, Woolford, Hammond & Edgar with little effect on results despite being on a fair penny and supposingly from the "next level or beyond")

OR

the player he did bring were actually quality players that people dont appriciate hence getting to the play-offs and it was other problems which caused our problems...

I would also argue that this supposingly "massive squad" wasnt as massive as people make out (especially when you look at the injuries and those signed/brought through as "ones for the future")

taking out the long term injuries and "kids" the team was about averaged size...

with regards to the "Expensive" side... this wouldnt be down to Clough... this would technically be down to the CEO.... as he would negotiate wages (and we all know we wont overpay the wages considering how many players we missed out on....

Or Clough built a team to play the way he wanted, with players he knew and were loyal to him. Then he gets sacked and a new man comes in who wants to play a different way that suits the players less and they can't be arsed to adapt because most of them hate the people who run the club and half of them will be out of contract soon and are just waiting for another club to make them an acceptable offer so they can get the fuck away from a car crash club where they get booed most weeks.

 

[Deleted member 875]

Thing is it can't be entirely surprising Clough got the bag on.

He got us playing some great football and brought some decent players in towards the end of 2013-14 season, then he got told he couldn't make Coady permanent, obvious went shopping in the football equivelent of rifling through the reduced bins at Lidl as we brought in luminaries such as Alcock, Higdon, Turner, Davies, McGahey and the likes.

Then he got told to flog Maguire and wasn't given any money to spend.

Is it any fucking wonder that he got the hump on in the end?

 

[SB_90]

How does Morgan get away Scot free as well surely to god he made Adkins aware of the shambles that was last season.

you got a great point, as the only constant thru wilson weir clough & now adkins he knew our problems, going back to selling maguire 10 mths before clough sacking, only getting mcgahey mceveley as his replacements who are in same league, he should have known as a defender himself that defence had to be top of our agenda.

actually bringing it full circle someone on twitter made a great point i dont think we've ever replaced the man himself since he's left i think we have lacked the organisation & leadership. that he always brought. who in my opinion the best captain ive seen in my time at lane

 

[itsinyerblood]

Imagine if there were message boards when Clough took over at Forest:

'We don't want that Derby twat'

'he's just failed at Leeds and winning the league with Derby was a fluke'.

'Too arrogant, will never succeed here'

'Spends too much time on TV, full of himself'

'Should've gone for Jimmy Sirrel'.

Yes indeed BB, fortunately(?) fan participation was a little different then. No doubt the reactions would have mirrored what we're used to now, but Brian was a one-off, the like of which I doubt we'll see again (Mourinho having some of Clough's hubris but still difficult to compare.) All those qualities we tend to associate with Clough Snr are readily accepted in other managers if their teams do well, but should the manager flatter to deceive then he'll soon be seeking employment elsewhere.

 

[AlienBlade]

Or Clough built a team to play the way he wanted, with players he knew and were loyal to him. Then he gets sacked and a new man comes in who wants to play a different way that suits the players less and they can't be arsed to adapt because most of them hate the people who run the club and half of them will be out of contract soon and are just waiting for another club to make them an acceptable offer so they can get the fuck away from a car crash club where they get booed most weeks.

I could buy that IF we were playing some new revoltionary football... but we are playing in the same way Clough played... but less effectively... we are over passing it around the back.. scared of shooting, 1 forward pass to 10 backwards/sidewards passes. playing players out of position (despite having players on the bench who play in that position) this "scout" we brought in should have a list (and if we were able to bring in the likes of Hammond) then we clearly had some money spare... yet for all his super scoutery none of Adkins signings have set this league alight...

and who says they hate the people who run the club? and if you honestly wanted to get out of a club and play for another... you would surely do what the likes of Murphy did... and play well to get noticed...and get out.... if you look like you are not trying in a club teams wont touch you with another clubs barge pole, you would ask to be transfer listed, agree pay offs to escape from the wicked club... so that doesnt seem to be based on much truth.

and surely if you were a top manager you wouldnt try and change things all at once with players who dont suit a certain style (big fault of Weirs) you would see what you have and play to their skill set and slowly try and get the players to play your way whilst bringing in those players.

for example Clough had brought in a lot of small players... would you then expect the new manager to play long ball without bringing in a target man... and expect it to work... would you have a team full of cloggers and expect them to pass like Barcelona over night... why would any manager think they could.. and if Adkins does then he is cracked... (but as he is playing the same way as Clough did I dont think this is the case in any event)

 

[BushBlade]

I could buy that IF we were playing some new revoltionary football... but we are playing in the same way Clough played... but less effectively... we are over passing it around the back.. scared of shooting, 1 forward pass to 10 backwards/sidewards passes. playing players out of position (despite having players on the bench who play in that position) this "scout" we brought in should have a list (and if we were able to bring in the likes of Hammond) then we clearly had some money spare... yet for all his super scoutery none of Adkins signings have set this league alight...

and who says they hate the people who run the club? and if you honestly wanted to get out of a club and play for another... you would surely do what the likes of Murphy did... and play well to get noticed...and get out.... if you look like you are not trying in a club teams wont touch you with another clubs barge pole, you would ask to be transfer listed, agree pay offs to escape from the wicked club... so that doesnt seem to be based on much truth.

and surely if you were a top manager you wouldnt try and change things all at once with players who dont suit a certain style (big fault of Weirs) you would see what you have and play to their skill set and slowly try and get the players to play your way whilst bringing in those players.

for example Clough had brought in a lot of small players... would you then expect the new manager to play long ball without bringing in a target man... and expect it to work... would you have a team full of cloggers and expect them to pass like Barcelona over night... why would any manager think they could.. and if Adkins does then he is cracked... (but as he is playing the same way as Clough did I dont think this is the case in any event)

No, it just looks similar because the players are the same and that's how they play. He's clearly tried to change things. It just hasn't worked. He seems to have tried going back to a more Clough-like set up but that hasn't worked any better, in fact worse because we haven't got the right kind of striker; Clough would have kept Davies (and I'm not saying that would have been the answer but he's just more suited to the 451 type football Clough prefers). Also, not helped by injuries.

As for his scouting, I haven't seen the list of players he wanted that he submitted to the board or the brief he was given by the board when he joined so I can't comment. On the face of it though, no-one could argue that he's done particularly well.

In theory you would play as well as you could to get a move but that doesn't account for players being human. Most people don't strive against adversity to prove others wrong. Most people just get demotivated. That includes players. And most managers are aware of this. That's why Sterling can get a move to Man City despite acting like a massive twat.

And most top managers do try to change things, to play their way. You only have to look at Van Gaal to see that. Or Guardiola. The ones who don't tend to be impact managers who only do well in the short term. Obviously there are exceptions but to say all good managers are adaptable and flexible doesn't correlate with what actually happens. Mourinho tried to do it with Chelsea but after one bad defeat by Spurs resorted to his old tactics of grinding out results. It won him the league because he was able to get his players to do things they didn't really like doing but he needed to make big changes in the summer and wasn't able to. He knew what would happen which is why he's been slowly going mental; he's a control freak who foresaw his control slipping away.
Bassett admitted to trying to change things too quickly. Should we have written him off when he didn't make the instant impact we'd hoped for?

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

A monkey could have turned around Weirs squad. Literally.

UTB

Not sure I agree. They were limited, Clough got a game out of them. Just like the squad last season but with less gusto.

 

[finlaytheblade]

No, it just looks similar because the players are the same and that's how they play. He's clearly tried to change things. It just hasn't worked. He seems to have tried going back to a more Clough-like set up but that hasn't worked any better, in fact worse because we haven't got the right kind of striker; Clough would have kept Davies (and I'm not saying that would have been the answer but he's just more suited to the 451 type football Clough prefers). Also, not helped by injuries.

As for his scouting, I haven't seen the list of players he wanted that he submitted to the board or the brief he was given by the board when he joined so I can't comment. On the face of it though, no-one could argue that he's done particularly well.

In theory you would play as well as you could to get a move but that doesn't account for players being human. Most people don't strive against adversity to prove others wrong. Most people just get demotivated. That includes players. And most managers are aware of this. That's why Sterling can get a move to Man City despite acting like a massive twat.

And most top managers do try to change things, to play their way. You only have to look at Van Gaal to see that. Or Guardiola. The ones who don't tend to be impact managers who only do well in the short term. Obviously there are exceptions but to say all good managers are adaptable and flexible doesn't correlate with what actually happens. Mourinho tried to do it with Chelsea but after one bad defeat by Spurs resorted to his old tactics of grinding out results. It won him the league because he was able to get his players to do things they didn't really like doing but he needed to make big changes in the summer and wasn't able to. He knew what would happen which is why he's been slowly going mental; he's a control freak who foresaw his control slipping away.
Bassett admitted to trying to change things too quickly. Should we have written him off when he didn't make the instant impact we'd hoped for?

Great

No, it just looks similar because the players are the same and that's how they play. He's clearly tried to change things. It just hasn't worked. He seems to have tried going back to a more Clough-like set up but that hasn't worked any better, in fact worse because we haven't got the right kind of striker; Clough would have kept Davies (and I'm not saying that would have been the answer but he's just more suited to the 451 type football Clough prefers). Also, not helped by injuries.

As for his scouting, I haven't seen the list of players he wanted that he submitted to the board or the brief he was given by the board when he joined so I can't comment. On the face of it though, no-one could argue that he's done particularly well.

In theory you would play as well as you could to get a move but that doesn't account for players being human. Most people don't strive against adversity to prove others wrong. Most people just get demotivated. That includes players. And most managers are aware of this. That's why Sterling can get a move to Man City despite acting like a massive twat.

And most top managers do try to change things, to play their way. You only have to look at Van Gaal to see that. Or Guardiola. The ones who don't tend to be impact managers who only do well in the short term. Obviously there are exceptions but to say all good managers are adaptable and flexible doesn't correlate with what actually happens. Mourinho tried to do it with Chelsea but after one bad defeat by Spurs resorted to his old tactics of grinding out results. It won him the league because he was able to get his players to do things they didn't really like doing but he needed to make big changes in the summer and wasn't able to. He knew what would happen which is why he's been slowly going mental; he's a control freak who foresaw his control slipping away.
Bassett admitted to trying to change things too quickly. Should we have written him off when he didn't make the instant impact we'd hoped for?

Great post BushBlade a lot of thought gone in there ,Adkins has gof a very difficult job shrinking a squad and at the same time trying to get promotion while building a team to play his way ,all in twelve months (1 season).a real challenge..
The way he wants to play demands a higher standard of fitness of his squad and some are only just getting there.I take for example Baxter
most of us agree he is probably our most gifted player, Adkins latest interview : he talks very candidly about Baxter and a few others (when did we last have a manager who talked openly about individual players) we all know Baxter can't get around the pitch and clough,s style suited immobile players Adkins is demanding more and as fitness improves players like Baxter can give more.
As you say BushBlade he has tried to play in differend formations but lack of legs let's us down when we play 4 4 2 the squad is suited to play the way clough had built it and the players he has brought in so far have not been able to bridge the gap ,I think Adkins will get that right in the next few months with the aid of the window and some of the present squad coming to the table.
He has a difficult job let's get behind him ,we all new he had a difficult job to turn a negative squad into a positive attacking one ,he,s made a start so come on support him what's the alternative? ?

 

[AlienBlade]

No, it just looks similar because the players are the same and that's how they play. He's clearly tried to change things. It just hasn't worked. He seems to have tried going back to a more Clough-like set up but that hasn't worked any better, in fact worse because we haven't got the right kind of striker; Clough would have kept Davies (and I'm not saying that would have been the answer but he's just more suited to the 451 type football Clough prefers). Also, not helped by injuries.

As for his scouting, I haven't seen the list of players he wanted that he submitted to the board or the brief he was given by the board when he joined so I can't comment. On the face of it though, no-one could argue that he's done particularly well.

In theory you would play as well as you could to get a move but that doesn't account for players being human. Most people don't strive against adversity to prove others wrong. Most people just get demotivated. That includes players. And most managers are aware of this. That's why Sterling can get a move to Man City despite acting like a massive twat.

And most top managers do try to change things, to play their way. You only have to look at Van Gaal to see that. Or Guardiola. The ones who don't tend to be impact managers who only do well in the short term. Obviously there are exceptions but to say all good managers are adaptable and flexible doesn't correlate with what actually happens. Mourinho tried to do it with Chelsea but after one bad defeat by Spurs resorted to his old tactics of grinding out results. It won him the league because he was able to get his players to do things they didn't really like doing but he needed to make big changes in the summer and wasn't able to. He knew what would happen which is why he's been slowly going mental; he's a control freak who foresaw his control slipping away.
Bassett admitted to trying to change things too quickly. Should we have written him off when he didn't make the instant impact we'd hoped for?

Sterling gets a move becuase underneath being a massive twat, people have seen some talent.... the same cant be said for many of our players... hence the likes of Diego thinking he would move over to Juventus... and still being here being told by the second manager that he needs to buck his ideas up... (these are league one players... and they are in league one for a reason) you have to stand out to be seen... if you slosh around moping around you get released and disappear... the top leagues are the exception to the rule...

the problem is that he as you say is trying to play in a way that becuase of the players he has now brought to the club do not suit half the players playing... we need a big strong CF if we are going to play 1 up top... you dont stick that CF on the Left wing... (Clough was slaughtered for doing similar... yet the brown nosers appear to accept Adkins doing it...) Clough was slaughtered for speaking out about players (Adkins names and Shames both Baxter and DDG in an interview, and the nodding dogs bleet how insightful Adkins is... (the same who screamed abuse for Clough stating that Mcnulty needed to run the channels more... (what a cutting remark... I bet McNulty cried for weeks..)

the thing is Adkins is constantly changing things he is asking for patience... yet not showing it with some players within his own team, dropping certain players at a drop of a hat and keeping his favourite who have done nothing but underperform.... (again something clough was accused of)

how can a team gel or figure out partnerships if they rarely play with each other from one week to the next..

Keith Edwards said one thing that I completely agree with the other night... if you are a striker you shoudl be putting yourself between the ball and the defender, not waiting for a perfect cross... our strikers dont have the presence of thought to pull the trigger... Adkins said we put in more than 20 crosses against bottom side Crewe... yet only got 12 shots.... only 4 on target.... that tells you something...our strikers are not gambling enough!

 

[BushBlade]

Sterling gets a move becuase underneath being a massive twat, people have seen some talent.... the same cant be said for many of our players... hence the likes of Diego thinking he would move over to Juventus... and still being here being told by the second manager that he needs to buck his ideas up... (these are league one players... and they are in league one for a reason) you have to stand out to be seen... if you slosh around moping around you get released and disappear... the top leagues are the exception to the rule...

the problem is that he as you say is trying to play in a way that becuase of the players he has now brought to the club do not suit half the players playing... we need a big strong CF if we are going to play 1 up top... you dont stick that CF on the Left wing... (Clough was slaughtered for doing similar... yet the brown nosers appear to accept Adkins doing it...) Clough was slaughtered for speaking out about players (Adkins names and Shames both Baxter and DDG in an interview, and the nodding dogs bleet how insightful Adkins is... (the same who screamed abuse for Clough stating that Mcnulty needed to run the channels more... (what a cutting remark... I bet McNulty cried for weeks..)

the thing is Adkins is constantly changing things he is asking for patience... yet not showing it with some players within his own team, dropping certain players at a drop of a hat and keeping his favourite who have done nothing but underperform.... (again something clough was accused of)

how can a team gel or figure out partnerships if they rarely play with each other from one week to the next..

Keith Edwards said one thing that I completely agree with the other night... if you are a striker you shoudl be putting yourself between the ball and the defender, not waiting for a perfect cross... our strikers dont have the presence of thought to pull the trigger... Adkins said we put in more than 20 crosses against bottom side Crewe... yet only got 12 shots.... only 4 on target.... that tells you something...our strikers are not gambling enough!

I didn't criticise Clough for those things either. People just jump on minutiae because we're losing and people like to think they know why. That's why we post on message boards.
It seems that whatever NA tries, the players aren't responding to it. He's got a lot of work to do in the JTW.

 

[blade too long]

I've missed the connection you've made between my genitals and our last manager

its a compliment
both are massive cocks

 

[AlienBlade]

I didn't criticise Clough for those things either. People just jump on minutiae because we're losing and people like to think they know why. That's why we post on message boards.
It seems that whatever NA tries, the players aren't responding to it. He's got a lot of work to do in the JTW.

at present however I wouldnt trust him with any money... IMO all of his signings have added very little to nothing.... and he is now making excuses for them which will just fuel the fire.

Woolford hardly gets a game, Edgar he would sooner allow play for Canada then assist us at the back where we are now again playing a CM at CB, Sharp set off ok, but has reverted back to type (i.e. cant control, cant pass, cant score in a Blades shirt), Sammond cant get on and when he does he wont play him up front (maybe becuase he rarely wins a header) and then we have Hammond.... this premiership player who apparently we dont see doing all the hard work by tackling, and possession retention... (some might say we don't see it becuase it isnt happening and by now surely he should be "match fit" (as if you think about new players at the start of the season we would be the equivilent of September now...)

tbh even when we have won I can see the issues we still have (Worcester City) and are told to STFU as a win is a win... but it just papers the cracks and people within the club use it to get away with doing nothing about it...

Adkins failed to change the game on Saturday (bringing on a sub on the 85th minute when the likes of Billy and Che were both shattered and a blind man could see they wasnt going to score) but it felt like he was happy to keep it at 2-2 after we had "valiently fought back" (we shouldnt need to fight back...)

this is what is annoying many (and which annoyed many with clough "no plan b")

 

[BushBlade]

at present however I wouldnt trust him with any money... IMO all of his signings have added very little to nothing.... and he is now making excuses for them which will just fuel the fire.

Woolford hardly gets a game, Edgar he would sooner allow play for Canada then assist us at the back where we are now again playing a CM at CB, Sharp set off ok, but has reverted back to type (i.e. cant control, cant pass, cant score in a Blades shirt), Sammond cant get on and when he does he wont play him up front (maybe becuase he rarely wins a header) and then we have Hammond.... this premiership player who apparently we dont see doing all the hard work by tackling, and possession retention... (some might say we don't see it becuase it isnt happening and by now surely he should be "match fit" (as if you think about new players at the start of the season we would be the equivilent of September now...)

tbh even when we have won I can see the issues we still have (Worcester City) and are told to STFU as a win is a win... but it just papers the cracks and people within the club use it to get away with doing nothing about it...

Adkins failed to change the game on Saturday (bringing on a sub on the 85th minute when the likes of Billy and Che were both shattered and a blind man could see they wasnt going to score) but it felt like he was happy to keep it at 2-2 after we had "valiently fought back" (we shouldnt need to fight back...)

this is what is annoying many (and which annoyed many with clough "no plan b")

I don't disagree that his signings have been less than impressive but if the board aren't prepared to give him any money they may as well sack him now.

 

[Harry's Game]

We would have been In no better a Leqgue position under Clough and considerably worse off the pitch because crowds would be around 15k and a mangager on the verge of the sack.

Clough second season set us back two years, if you don't beleive me that seems to be Jim Phipps' view as well

 

[oldblade]

And got us to two cup semis

I don't know about all the games that got us there, but 8 of the side that started the cup semi final were not signed by Clough, and 2 of the 3 substitutes were also not signed by him.

And not a single player in the side that won at Aston Villa was signed by Clough.

 

[BushBlade]

I don't know about all the games that got us there, but 8 of the side that started the cup semi final were not signed by Clough, and 2 of the 3 substitutes were also not signed by him.

And not a single player in the side that won at Aston Villa was signed by Clough.

Which cup?

And who played LB at Villa?

 

[oldblade]

Which cup?

And who played LB at Villa?

Sorry, I made myself a little less than clear! I was talking about the 'proper' cup semi final - the FA Cup. The one against Hull City.

The left back against Aston Villa was Hill.

 

[Ted Danson]

We would have been In no better a Leqgue position under Clough and considerably worse off the pitch because crowds would be around 15k and a mangager on the verge of the sack.

Clough second season set us back two years, if you don't beleive me that seems to be Jim Phipps' view as well

I dont believe you and I dont believe a word that shiester says either, we were better off this time last year and the league was harder I cant see any reason why we wouldn't be a fair bit better off this season. From what we were told Clough had identified the CB issue and was ready to address it, Maybe even Murphy would have stayed as he seemed to like Clough too.

 

[sitwell]

I dont believe you and I dont believe a word that shiester says either, we were better off this time last year and the league was harder I cant see any reason why we wouldn't be a fair bit better off this season. From what we were told Clough had identified the CB issue and was ready to address it, Maybe even Murphy would have stayed as he seemed to like Clough too.

Agree ,for someone who wasn't supposed to get on with the players ,they seemed a lot hungrier for him except for the shit ones like Collins.

 

[alcoblade]

I dont believe you and I dont believe a word that shiester says either, we were better off this time last year and the league was harder I cant see any reason why we wouldn't be a fair bit better off this season. From what we were told Clough had identified the CB issue and was ready to address it, Maybe even Murphy would have stayed as he seemed to like Clough too.

We ended last season appallingly, and not just over a few games. There's loads of reasons why the might not be doing a fair bit better this season. And given the absolute mess he made of the defence, I'd have no confidence in him saying that he'd "identified the problem".

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

Agree ,for someone who wasn't supposed to get on with the players ,they seemed a lot hungrier for him except for the shit ones like Collins.

In what way did they seem hungrier last season?

UTB

 

[sitwell]

May be coincidence but a lot seem to be taking a long time to get off the treatment table ,I may be wrong but Done for one. Clough had got rid of Collins and Long who are nowhere near good enough ,now they are back, I really worry about Adkins judgement. Adkins is reaping the rewards of Adams and Wallace having a full close season ,but he also hasn't addressed the main problem of central defence and a strong midfielder. Clough had all the bits to play but 3 or 4 recruitments down the spine would have made us a good team. James Wallace is the main conundrum for both managers ,do you wait for his fitness or look elsewhere.

 

[alcoblade]

May be coincidence but a lot seem to be taking a long time to get off the treatment table ,I may be wrong but Done for one. Clough had got rid of Collins and Long who are nowhere near good enough ,now they are back, I really worry about Adkins judgement. Adkins is reaping the rewards of Adams and Wallace having a full close season ,but he also hasn't addressed the main problem of central defence and a strong midfielder. Clough had all the bits to play but 3 or 4 recruitments down the spine would have made us a good team. James Wallace is the main conundrum for both managers ,do you wait for his fitness or look elsewhere.

By the time we're done, I bet Brayford will cost of more than £3,000,000 - for a right back! He signed him and left a gaping hole through the middle for an entire season, without acting.

Adkins probably thought making up with Collins was enough - but he's been proved wrong. He then plugged the gap with Edgar, but that hasn't worked so far. I wouldn't write him off yet.

I've no doubt this seasons transfer activity is limited in quality and number by the poor quality and number of players signed by Clough.

I have my concerns about what Adkins has so far done too, but it doesn't justify the mess Clough made.

As for Wallace, look at his career stats so far - no decision to make for me, bin him.

UTB

 

[sitwell]

Out of interest list me all this huge number of poor quality players Clough signed that has left Adkins with such a mess.

 

[AlienBlade]

We would have been In no better a Leqgue position under Clough and considerably worse off the pitch because crowds would be around 15k and a mangager on the verge of the sack.

Clough second season set us back two years, if you don't beleive me that seems to be Jim Phipps' view as well

and you think we wont be getting crowds of 15k next season if this shambles isnt halted...

and it would be argued that we would have been in a better postion on the pitch, he knew the defenders he wanted in, he knew the playerrs who was under performing, there wasnt any "clean slate" period to go through first. he also knew how to grind a win out (hence his win ratio with us)

check the points we had at this point last season.... 17 games played Last Season... 30 points... This season 25pts...

so as a business and a fan.... would you sooner see 15k in the gate this season... (bearing in mind most season tickets would have been sold prior to clough being given the heave ho) with more points... or shall we have less points but fill the lane...

and if you believe what comes out of Phipps mouth then you have some serious problems...he has more spin than spinny things spinning other spinny things.. according to him the coffers are brimming and we could go out and buy people... yet we seem to be struggling to bring in even loanees, (unless you are saying Adkins believe we are "ok" and can leave it until January before investing..)

 

[Rodders]

I dont believe you and I dont believe a word that shiester says either, we were better off this time last year and the league was harder I cant see any reason why we wouldn't be a fair bit better off this season. From what we were told Clough had identified the CB issue and was ready to address it, Maybe even Murphy would have stayed as he seemed to like Clough too.

Well that's great of him, took him long enough.

EDIT: I was one of the 60-odd percent that was happy for him to stay this year, but let's not re-write history. CB was a problem the entire season and it turned into a joke by the end of last season.