Modern Footballs Rubbish

[jt64]

Hmm. There might be something in that.

You go in Decathlon (within sight of BDTBL) and you can buy Division 1 kits from predictable clubs - but not United or Wendy kit (I think).

Symptomatic of a wider malaise?

If the club are allowing a third party supplier within a five minute walk of their club shop to sell Blades kits they're doing something wrong

 

[Houston_Blade]

The FA/PL don't offer Sky a certain deal. All the games are put into packages with a mix of "big" games and not so big games. These packages are then offered out to whoever wants to bid on them. Some packages are worth more than others. The BBC can bid if they wanted but they'll never win due to the cost Sky and BT value them.

Incidentally BT's circa £900m successful bid for 38 games lead to an increase in their share price, Sky's circa £4bn bid for 116 games lead to a decrease in theirs. Crazy money whichever way you look at it and I'd hate to be the person responsible for calculating the final bid price.

 

[Grecian2000]

Good discussion and some fair points.

Personally, I think the game has gone down the shitter but then I think that sort of attitude comes with a certain age anyway.

I think the thing that has changed most of all, and so places like this forum are generally more negative than positive about the modern game, is the balance between the "real" supporter and the armchair fan has skewed so far against the genuine supporter as to make it almost unbearable to us. I would imagine the MUFC supporters club in Chicago or Bangkok think it's a beautiful thing to see their team every week on live tv.
For generations "we" were the most important part of the club, the lifeblood, the main source of income. In fact, we WERE the club!
Now our importance is diminished to a role of, almost unwelcome, bystander. The money comes from TV. The game is played (if it's valuable enough) when TV want to show it. If Sky say Newcastle must play at Southampton on a Monday night (or a Sunday evening) then that is what they must do. The thousands of Geordies who would've made the trip (but now can't/won't) can go fuck themselves. The game doesn't need them to be there. The atmosphere isn't important anymore, the armchair fan doesn't know what it's like to be in a seething cauldron of passion (and hate) and, frankly, doesn't care. The game is played out and analysed for them and they're told what to think about it, they don't even notice those oiks in the stands unless they've got amusing painted faces or are shedding a tear at a crucial defeat.
That's why there is a hankering for the old days and a look down the pyramid to a "better" time. When TV really aren't that interested in you then the supporters role is far closer to that which we remember it being. It's easy being a Salford supporter when only one game a season get's switched to a ridiculous kick off time (although I'll bet some didn't even like that) but the higher you go the more your importance is diluted and the less the club actually cares.

I want us to win every game we play, I still care, but if we never got near the Premier League again I wouldn't be bothered because I'd go to far fewer games (by reason of cost and time) should we get there than I do now so why would that be something to aspire to?

 

[Tyler Durden]

If the club are allowing a third party supplier within a five minute walk of their club shop to sell Blades kits they're doing something wrong

There was a time you could buy United merchandise at both TJ Hughes and the Co-op, only a few minutes further up the road. In some cases the prices were lower too. If the club license it then you can sell it anywhere.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

A lot of these issues` were touched upon last week in the threads about Sky/Foreign ownership etc.

I think basically, the consensus was that football clubs these days are not representative of local communities they purport to represent but are instead brands being marketed the world over. Certainly within the upper echelons of the professional game anyway. As clubs like ourselves clamber to try to be a part of it, we end up with the mercenary journeymen who can't quite make that standard and are using us for a payday.

If I wasn't so heavily indoctrinated into SUFC, I would be tempted to jack it in and go and follow a local non-league club instead.

 

[Ashtonsmashton]

I find our current style of play extremely boring, compared to past managers

 

[HighfieldBlade]

My son is 16 and loves his football, but he's got tunnel-vision for the Premier League.
I always ask him if he wants to come with me to watch The Blades. If we're playing in a big cup game he might join me. If it's a league game - forget it - he thinks Sheffield United are crap.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

My son is 16 and loves his football, but he's got tunnel-vision for the Premier League.
I always ask him if he wants to come with me to watch The Blades. If we're playing in a big cup game he might join me. If it's a league game - forget it - he thinks Sheffield United are crap.

Not a million miles from WHF Jr Sr who might prefer a season ticket for Anfield.

I think there is still the attraction of seeing a game live though. For want of a better word I think this is pretty powerful.

Maybe if you could drag him along he might enjoy it. Not an easy message to get through to a 16 year old though.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

My son is 16 and loves his football, but he's got tunnel-vision for the Premier League.
I always ask him if he wants to come with me to watch The Blades. If we're playing in a big cup game he might join me. If it's a league game - forget it - he thinks Sheffield United are crap.

Maybe you could tell him all about Che Adams, how this is his chance to see him live before he signs for Spurs, and he can get one up on his mates.

 

[HighfieldBlade]

Maybe you could tell him all about Che Adams, how this is his chance to see him live before he signs for Spurs, and he can get one up on his mates.

He has been to a few games, including the Spurs match last season. I think it was more to brag about having seen Premier League players in real life, as opposed to on TV or on his PS4 .

 

[Hamburg Blade]

You think football is working fine, I strongly disagree but you're entitled to feel that way and if you're putting your money into the game and are happy with what you're getting back then great for you. It's your right as a consumer to get what you're paying for. My argument is aimed at criticising people that moan about it but pour money into it. They're not entitled to moan in my humble opinion.

I have started investing in another sport instead, that's my choice because I don't like where football is now and I ultimately make the consumer accountable for it. The fact that I dislike what's happening is neither here nor there as long as the status quo remains but I am entitled to say what I think about it and to point out when I firmly believe that someone else is wrong. I believe that you are and I think many would agree.

I think football is working fine? If you're not even going to read what I say there's no point in this. And if you're going to blame every paying fan and Sky subscriber for what's wrong with football and tell them they have no right to moan, you're actually not going to get many people to agree with you at all!

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

I think football is working fine? If you're not even going to read what I say there's no point in this. And if you're going to blame every paying fan and Sky subscriber for what's wrong with football and tell them they have no right to moan, you're actually not going to get many people to agree with you at all!

It's been gentrified.

There are enormous pros and cons.

Football's working fine if you like what it has become.

Football is ruined if you don't like what it has become.

I think teams like FC United keeping the flame of authenticity burning mean that will remain part of the story of football in England. Who knows it may even grow. Though I doubt it, it's not part of the national character as I see it.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

he thinks Sheffield United are crap.

Am proud to say that HB Jnr thinks the same, but still rolls up every Saturday in the mad belief that it might all turn out for the best in the long run... just like his dad.

 

[HighfieldBlade]

Am proud to say that HB Jnr thinks the same, but still rolls up every Saturday in the mad belief that it might all turn out for the best in the long run... just like his dad.

My lad used to be like that, before the hormones kicked in.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

My lad used to be like that, before the hormones kicked in.

I believe it's mu duty to indoctrinate the poor lad into the joy and misery of following a football team... And as I like to point out to him on the long drive home... he was brought up a Blade, I chose this!!

 

[Houston_Blade]

My son is 16 and loves his football, but he's got tunnel-vision for the Premier League.
I always ask him if he wants to come with me to watch The Blades. If we're playing in a big cup game he might join me. If it's a league game - forget it - he thinks Sheffield United are crap.

Congratulations on bringing up a sensible kid, now you just need to inform that is being crap is something he'll just get used to and that superiority complex's are for followers of the S6 lot only.

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

I think football is working fine? If you're not even going to read what I say there's no point in this. And if you're going to blame every paying fan and Sky subscriber for what's wrong with football and tell them they have no right to moan, you're actually not going to get many people to agree with you at all!

Firstly I can't read what you say, unless you're using speech recognition software. Secondly If you're not even going to read what you post then there definitely is no point in this.....

On the surface of it, football is working fine.

Have a look back at your earlier posts. That should cure the amnesia.

The thing that almost certainly makes our discussion pointless is that you don't read what I post. I clearly state that those paying their subscription etc. who are happy with football are entitled to do as they wish. I also clearly state that those who pay the money and moan about it have no right to. I firmly believe that if you feed something and help it to flourish you're a hypocrite to moan about what you get for it.

If you're going to have a debate with me and hold your own you're going to have to try a little harder.

 

[Tezza1889]

I've been taking my boy since he was three, he's just done ten years of supporting the blades, he'd have got less for murder I know, but it's gone full circle, bored at the start, then game boys mid match, now, he's keen on them and wants to go, he sees it as a proper dad n son day, which it is.

Because he can't have 13 on this seasons shirt, he's chose 3 to mark his age at the first game he went to...

Last years cup run pulled him right back into it..

 

[Borbokisfreekick]

having being a football fan (SUFC) since 1988 my view my be blurry eyed and I'm sure everything wasn't great back in the day, maybe it's an age thing cos I remember my old man saying how great the Currie, Woodward, Badger, Hockey, Coloughin (sp) era was, but I'm sure modern football has become a rather dull and pretty laborious spectical.

I love the club I support and find the match day experience almost addictive, away days can be a time to behold, regular faces from years gone and a newer element coming through, it's a great environment to be in.

HOWEVER........We're supporting a modern day footballer with little or no loyalty to our city or club, a job description which must include the word "mercenaries" within it as 99% are. I've experienced my life's highest and lowest points following the Blades (bar the birth of my kids) however the first round of the FA Cup (esp. the raise of Salford City) conjures up memories of how it used to be and what football at grass roots means to communities, surely that's what football is meant to be all about. I saw a tweet from Ryan Hindley that Hallams crowds are up 52% year on year, a coincidence that Swfc have increased admission fees to a level beyond the reach of some?

I suppose my question is am I (at 38yrs old) an ageing nostalgic fool or is there some underlying movement of disgruntled football purists and is modern football really rubbish?

Interesting thread and debate, along the lines of the "sky's ruined football" thread last week.

I've been watching United and football since 1991 (I was 6).

I'm as just as obsessed about the game now, if not more, than I have ever been. I watched 4 live games this weekend - Man United vs West Brom, Arsenal vs Tottenham, Man City vs Villa, FC Dallas vs Sounders, plus all the premier league highlights and some FA Cup goals. I live in the States, so think all the T.V. coverage is brilliant, without it I wouldn't get to see a game. I love all the coverage, analysis, pod casts. I watch and listen to those that are good i.e. BBC 5 Live, Sky Sports Gary Neville, Football Weekly, and ignore those that are shit i.e. Steve Claridge and Robbie Savage! Some games are boring, some are brilliant, and for me there is as much excitement in the game as there was in 1991.

This notion that small clubs can no longer get in the Premier League or get success is garbage. Over the past decade we've seen Wigan get up there and stay, Hull have two stints, Blackpool in there, little Burnley twice, Bournemouth, Cardiff, Swansea and Stoke both got in there on small budgest and are established etc etc. We've seen smaller clubs get to more Cup Finals and Semi's in the past decade then we probably saw in the 90's i.e. Cardiff, Bradford, Wigan, Millwall have all been in Finals, and there have been countless "smaller" clubs in Semi's.

In terms of the Premier League there are realistically 4 teams that can win it Chelsea, Man United, Arsenal, Man City... and Liverpool were close the other year, Spurs may even come close in the next few years. Again, better than the mid to late 80's when it was essentially Liverpool or Everton. yeah we'll never see a Leeds situation like in 1992, but aside from that it was just Man United and Arsenal for all of the 90's, aside from when Blackburn bought it, so it would appear that "modern" football is more competitive at the top level than it was 30-20 years ago.

Look a little further down - due to the money in the premier league we have now we have seen the gap close. Leicester, Southampton, West Ham and Palace all upsetting the big boys near the top. Even the worst team in the league managed to draw with City this weekend. Any team is capable of beating the other, which makes for exciting games.

The same can be said for the Championship. That league is so competitive and each year always throws up countless surprises. Its a cracking league.

So with all the above, I find it strange when people say modern football is crap. I think its pretty good.

What I do get is that the match day experience has changed and is completely alien to that of the 70's and 80's. But I think the match day experience generally mirrors the society at the times...

The 70's crowds and atmosphere looked amazing and mirrored the rock and roll, glamorous times of the 70's. The 80's atmosphere was toxic and violent - probably a reflection of a society in recession, bogged down by miners strikes and huge unemployment. The 90's brought all seater stadium but there was an optimism in the air and a little more flair and colour - probably a reflection of the mid 90's boom and the hope that the new Labor government brought.

Nowadays we have a society that demands instant gratification, has shorter attention spans than ever before and has more distractions than ever before. If a game isn't instantly captivating its easier for fans to play on their i-phone and tweet what they think about the game rather than actually watching it or supporting the team. 20 years ago this is probably when fans would try and get songs going!! The "modern" day fan likes to piss and moan that it isn't like the good old days, and make every excuse under the sun why the atmosphere in grounds isn't very good, but they don't do anything to make it better. Credit to Palace fans who actually try.....but then they get labelled as "bloody plastic fans forcing it"....well what else are they supposed to do!!! When we tried to get singing section set up at the Lane our fans said it was stupid....yet the same fans probably moan about no atmosphere.

People will always look back with nostalgia, nothing is supposedly ever as good as it used to be e,g, music, cinema, fashion. Footballs the same. I bet in the 70's fans complained that football was better in the 60's, in the 50's it was probably better in the 40's etc. and in 15 years time people will be pining for football we have now.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Firstly I can't read what you say, unless you're using speech recognition software.

Pedantic and pathetic, really pathetic.

Have a look back at your earlier posts. That should cure the amnesia.

You think when somebody says "on the surface, it's fine" they mean they think it's all fine? That's not what it means. To help your "amnesia":

There's a load wrong with football as it is played, shown and organised today, of course, and there's nowt wrong with pointing it out....

Bloody hell, there is so much wrong, which I mostly lay at the door of the governing bodies, ...

There's a lot I would change, both on and off the field.

And as for:

I clearly state that those paying their subscription etc. who are happy with football are entitled to do as they wish. I also clearly state that those who pay the money and moan about it have no right to. I firmly believe that if you feed something and help it to flourish you're a hypocrite to moan about what you get for it.

You actually wrote:

The problem is the consumer. I bet most people that post on here pay a subscription fee for something showing PL football, yet most complain that the financial inequality in the game is unfair and that our club is struggling way down.

Which lays the blame firmly at the feet of the consumer, complainer or not, if that's not what you meant, then it certainly wasn't "clear". And:

I don't like where football is now and I ultimately make the consumer accountable for it.

nothing about moaning there, also clearly laying the blame at the feet of the consumer. So I repeat the last sentence of my previous post which you seem to think I didn't read:
And if you're going to blame every paying fan and Sky subscriber for what's wrong with football (which you have, as I've shown) and tell them they have no right to moan (which you admit to), you're actually not going to get many people to agree with you at all! (which is for others to prove or disprove)

If you're going to have a debate with me and hold your own you're going to have to try a little harder.

You really do think you are morally and intellectually superior, don't you?

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

Pedantic and pathetic, really pathetic.

You think when somebody says "on the surface, it's fine" they mean they think it's all fine? That's not what it means. To help your "amnesia":



And as for:

You actually wrote:

Which lays the blame firmly at the feet of the consumer, complainer or not, if that's not what you meant, then it certainly wasn't "clear". And:

nothing about moaning there, also clearly laying the blame at the feet of the consumer. So I repeat the last sentence of my previous post which you seem to think I didn't read:
And if you're going to blame every paying fan and Sky subscriber for what's wrong with football (which you have, as I've shown) and tell them they have no right to moan (which you admit to), you're actually not going to get many people to agree with you at all! (which is for others to prove or disprove)


You really do think you are morally and intellectually superior, don't you?

Incredible

There's no point debating anything with you. All you served to do is point out that you contradict yourself so you don't need a second person for a debate. By stating that on the surface football is fine you're making a very strong inference that you believe that it is indeed fine in your opinion. Just now you've reminded me that you also stated that there's a lot wrong with it. I'm sorry I don't remember everything you post but if we're going to debate something I do need to be able to differentiate which side of the fence you're on. I'll be sure to ask you to qualify one or the other next time!

Moving on to your bizarre interpretation of my very clear and concise comments....I speculate that most on here probably pay a tv subscription to watch football, I then go on to say most people on here moan about football. In that statement I'm clearly weighing up the odds that that there are many paying to watch it and moaning about the way the sport is.....

I have said that I don't like what football is now and yes I blame the paying consumer for it. At no point do I say that people have no right to pay to watch football and be happy with it. That's their prerogative. What I am clearly saying and I'll summarise to help you out:-

1. I dislike what the sport has become.

2. If the consumer continues to pour money into it then it will remain the same way. Hence they're accountable for it (in my opinion) whether it's right or wrong and I never suggest they're wrong to pay for it if they're happy with it. I simply say I don't like it and identify what feeds and supports it.

3. If they're happy with that then no criticism can be made of them. You pay, you get, you're satisfied. That's fine, it's just not my cuppa.

4. If they pour money into the sport (tickets, tv subs etc.) and then complain about the sport and what it has become....then yes I believe they are a hypocrite and shouldn't be moaning at all.

With regard to the "superior" comment at the end....I have no interest in trying to prove whether I am or not and the thought certainly didn't cross my mind. I'm far more interested in refuting gross misinterpretations (that's being kind) of the things I have posted.

You're welcome to the last word as you seem determined to have it but please don't tie yourself in nots again.....

 

[Hamburg Blade]

I don't contradict myself, I've pointed that out, I can't help you if you don't understand what people mean when they say "on the surface" - and you don't need to remember everything I post, unless you're going to trawl back to take one sentence to prove a point, in which case you should make the effort to make sure you're not cherry-picking.

There is no bizarre interpretation of what you write. I have said twice now "...you're going to blame every paying fan and Sky subscriber for what's wrong with football..." and you have confirmed that AGAIN with the statement, "I have said that I don't like what football is now and yes I blame the paying consumer for it." I have not accused you of saying people don't have a right to pay for it and be happy about it. You're argueing points I haven't made.

You've gone on and on about people not having a right to moan if they're pumping money into it, I simply said I don't believe many people will agree with you when you have that stance. So my sentence, which you keep taking umbridge at, remains true and is a correct summarisation of what you are saying.
I've not tied myself in any knot, I've not misrepresented what you've said - not even argued with most of it. You're arguing points I haven't made and for some reason have decided to "take me on" - and actually believe you've out smarted me, to the degree you were gloating. If you hadn't considered yourself "superior" you wouldn't have dropped that awful "try harder" comment in at the end of your post. All very bizarre because we both think there's things wrong with football and the way it is financed.

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

I argue my point, you misinterpret/twist it (in my opinion) and when I refute your interpretation, giving valid explanation and context to support it you still find a way to twist it so that it excludes the key differential.....

I'm making the consumer accountable for what football is.

I'm respectfully saying that whether I like what it's become or not, people are entitled to invest their money in it if they so wish.

I'm then saying that if they continue to do so, they have no right to moan about it. By going back and paying you're suggesting you're happy with the product. That's how consumerism works. I don't understand why that's hard to follow or why it's not a perfectly logical argument.

I couldn't care less whether anyone agrees with me or not. I know for a fact that I don't like what football has become and I also know for a fact that if the consumer continues to fork out then it will continue on its present path with no change for the better (my idea of better of course). Hence the accountability of what I and seemingly many other people don't like, rests with the consumer. They're the ones with the power to change it. Without them it could not exist in its current form. That's a fact, not something for anyone to agree or disagree with.

I reiterate that where you and I stand on whether football is "fine" or not is neither here nor there. The impasse started when you posted this.....

"I think football is working fine? If you're not even going to read what I say there's no point in this. And if you're going to blame every paying fan and Sky subscriber for what's wrong with football and tell them they have no right to moan, you're actually not going to get many people to agree with you at all"

That came across as an attempt to undermine my credibility but not only that....you clearly stated that I blame EVERY paying fan etc. and tell them that they have.no right to moan which was very clearly not what I was saying. I reserve the right to defend my comments and refute gross misinterpretations.

Now let's call it quits before we go round in circles again.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Then you should try considering how "[if you're going to] hold your own you're going to have to try a little harder." sounds.

 

[Bartleby]

I think we need to call it quits on this debate. I argue my point, you misinterpret/twist it (in my opinion) and when I refute your interpretation, giving valid explanation and context to support it you still find a way to twist it so that it excludes the key differential.....

I'm making the consumer accountable for what football is.

I'm respectfully saying that whether I like what it's become or not, people are entitled to invest their money in it if they so wish.

I'm then saying that if they continue to do so, they have no right to moan about it. By going back and paying you're suggesting you're happy with the product. That's how consumerism works. I don't understand why that's hard to follow or why it's not a perfectly logical argument.

I couldn't care less whether anyone agrees with me or not. I know for a fact that I don't like what football has become and I also know for a fact that if the consumer continues to fork out then it will continue on its present path with no change for the better (my idea of better of course). Hence the accountability of what I and seemingly many other people don't like, rests with the consumer. They're the ones with the power to change it. Without them it could not exist in its current form. That's a fact, not something for anyone to agree or disagree with.

I reiterate that where you and I stand on whether football is "fine" or not is neither here nor there. I don't understand why you're persisting with the superior argument.

I see what you are saying but I think though in this situation the consumerism thing is complicated by the fact that the product, ie the Premier League, is the top level of an English football league that, until 20 years or so ago, had as it's main consumer the traditional, often working class, football fans in this country. That has now been whipped away and sold to a new global consumer at a sky high price (sorry about the pun). But the traditional football fan is still there but cannot afford the product.

Unless he simply fucks off out of the equation a tension will always exist. Loved hearing what the FC United fans were singing last night!

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

Then you should try considering how "[if you're going to] hold your own you're going to have to try a little harder." sounds.

It's on the same high horse as "if you're not even going to read what I say" and "you're not actually going to get anyone to agree with you"

Touché

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

I see what you are saying but I think though in this situation the consumerism thing is complicated by the fact that the product, ie the Premier League, is the top level of an English football league that, until 20 years or so ago, had as it's main consumer the traditional, often working class, football fans in this country. That has now been whipped away and sold to a new global consumer at a sky high price (sorry about the pun). But the traditional football fan is still there but cannot afford the product.

Unless he simply fucks off out of the equation a tension will always exist. Loved hearing what the FC United fans were singing last night!

It's a fair point and I think therein lies the even bigger problem. The larger part of the global football fan base knows nothing other than what it is now. Hence they probably are happy and have no intention of ever taking their money out of it. Traditional football fans are much like standing terraces, decreasing in number as the years go by. I've come to accept that the horse has bolted, much as it saddens me.

What were they singing? I didn't hear it.

 

[Bartleby]

What were they singing? I didn't hear it.

I presume you heard about their resistance to the media/FA interference in rearranging the game etc . It was shown on BT sport, managed to get somewhere to watch it, and "fuck off BT,fuck off BT" was chanted on and off all night. But for about the last 20 minutes solid without a break at all, and to the tune of the "everywhere we go" song it was "fuck the FA,fuck the FA,fuck the FA,fuck the FA,fuck the FA,". The commentator apologised several times. I think this could be the future for real football in this country.
Edit: also, thinking about the music industry, the so called top performers and the record companies got a bit of a shock when the likes of the Arctic Monkeys came along and did what they did to change the dynamics of the consumerism there did they not?