Movement at Crewe

[Bergen Blade]

I think our lack of mobility in midfield was a problem against Crewe. Our line up was

Howard
Flynn Basham Collins Harris
Coutts Hammond
- - - Baxter - - - - - - - - - Adams
Done Sharp​

I think the plan was for Hammond and Coutts to control things in midfield and let Baxter have a free role in midfield, where he was urged to find space between Crewe's midfield and defence centrally as well. Crewe have some giant centre halves, so I think Adkins wanted two small strikers to cause them problems on the ground.

Crewe dropped very deep at times and this meant we struggled to find space. Done never found space to run in behind, Baxter couldn't find room in front of their defence. Sharp was well marked and Adams struggled to get into the game as well, slipping on a few vital occasions.

Eventually Baxter started coming deep as well, and this meant we had three players trying to playmake from deep with none of them making effective forward runs on or off the ball.

An example of us having little rhythm in the way we pass and move: Coutts gets on the ball and Sharps comes for the ball, taking a centre half with him. This opens up a gap in their defence, but Baxter isn't the type to make these off the ball runs and we end up playing it backwards again:




When we struggle to break down a team which gets many men behind the ball, counter attacks can be vital. As soon as we realise the opposition finally have overcomitted themselves going forward, we must bomb forward (sprint, not run) with several runs and the ball must go forward urgently before the opposition get men behind the ball again. A failed attempt:



Another one:




I think people are going over the top with ridiculing and abusing the players. It is too simplistic to complain about a lack of effort. It is ignorant to say they're all crap. We lack balance, and at the moment mobility is the main problem.

I don't expect to see Hammond, Baxter or Coutts making these runs. It is not what they are good at. That's why they can't all be selected in the same team, they share the same weakness. There are different options within the team that could make us more mobile, play with a higher tempo and counter attack a lot better.

 

[JohnDenver]

Wouldn't argue with any of that. Though one or two are a bit crap aren't they?

 

[sitwell]

Personally I think we over-play ,too many passes and we lose momentum. Maybe oK in the next league ( I don't like it myself though) ,reminiscent of Weir at the moment ,but now we have attackers and we have to get the ball to them earlier and use the width.

 

[Barney]

What's wrong is simple to me.

• No tempo in possession

• Too slow at closing down when we're not in possession

• No runs off the ball, hence no options for the man on the ball

Basically, they're just a set of lazy bastards.

 

[blade67]

I think our lack of mobility in midfield was a problem against Crewe. Our line up was

Howard
Flynn Basham Collins Harris
Coutts Hammond
- - - Baxter - - - - - - - - - Adams
Done Sharp​

I think the plan was for Hammond and Coutts to control things in midfield and let Baxter have a free role in midfield, where he was urged to find space between Crewe's midfield and defence centrally as well. Crewe have some giant centre halves, so I think Adkins wanted two small strikers to cause them problems on the ground.

Crewe dropped very deep at times and this meant we struggled to find space. Done never found space to run in behind, Baxter couldn't find room in front of their defence. Sharp was well marked and Adams struggled to get into the game as well, slipping on a few vital occasions.

Eventually Baxter started coming deep as well, and this meant we had three players trying to playmake from deep with none of them making effective forward runs on or off the ball.

An example of us having little rhythm in the way we pass and move: Coutts gets on the ball and Sharps comes for the ball, taking a centre half with him. This opens up a gap in their defence, but Baxter isn't the type to make these off the ball runs and we end up playing it backwards again:




When we struggle to break down a team which gets many men behind the ball, counter attacks can be vital. As soon as we realise the opposition finally have overcomitted themselves going forward, we must bomb forward (sprint, not run) with several runs and the ball must go forward urgently before the opposition get men behind the ball again. A failed attempt:



Another one:




I think people are going over the top with ridiculing and abusing the players. It is too simplistic to complain about a lack of effort. It is ignorant to say they're all crap. We lack balance, and at the moment mobility is the main problem.

I don't expect to see Hammond, Baxter or Coutts making these runs. It is not what they are good at. That's why they can't all be selected in the same team, they share the same weakness. There are different options within the team that could make us more mobile, play with a higher tempo and counter attack a lot better.

Bergen

I'm pretty new to S24SU and your analysis is a highlight along with Roysviewfrom, I totally agree that player abuse is often misdirected and examples to demonstrate the point include

Michael Brown - raving average for 6 months, but became a legend that we aspired to for years
Bob Booker - booed in Division 3, a hero in the top flight
John Gannon - booed in Division 3, admired in the top flight
Michael Doyle - a disgrace that we we still haven't properly replaced

 

[Slug]

Tommas, what do you think to trying Hammond, Reid and Scougall as a midfield 3?
The lack of mobility in the middle is the main problem for me and i think Reed and Scouggs are they only options we really have for that as i would want to keep Basham in defence. Hopefully with some young energetic legs around him we would see an improvement in Hammond.

Freeman Collins Basham Harris
-------------Hammond---------------
---------- Reed----Scougall---------
JCR--------------------------Adams
---------------Sharp-------------------

 

[Barney]

Tommas, what do you think to trying Hammond, Reid and Scougall as a midfield 3?
The lack of mobility in the middle is the main problem for me and i think Reed and Scouggs are they only options we really have for that as i would want to keep Basham in defence. Hopefully with some young energetic legs around him we would see an improvement in Hammond.

Freeman Collins Basham Harris
-------------Hammond---------------
---------- Reed----Scougall---------
JCR--------------------------Adams
---------------Sharp-------------------

Reed and Scougall in the midfield.

Stuff of nightmares.

 

[Slug]

Reed and Scougall in the midfield.

Stuff of nightmares.

I suppose Baxter and Coutts in the midfield is what dreams are made of?

 

[Barney]

I suppose Baxter and Coutts in the midfield is what dreams are made of?

There's always going to be problems whoever you play in the midfield.

But Reed and Scougall are the worst midfielders we have in my opinion.

 

[Slug]

There's always going to be problems whoever you play in the midfield.

Totally agree with that, ideally i would go and sign Sam Morsy and Conor Hourihane to play there instead but we don't sign good players from our league.

But it is clear that movement is our main problem and at least Reed and Scougall are both capable of moving faster than snail pace

 

[1889]

I don't know how Done even got a shirt after his performance v Millwall? He has always worked hard off the ball, chased lost causes and put the opposition under pressure, but he just wasn't even slightly interested last week. Was he the same v Crewe and did he get a full game? Decisions like that are what make me question Adkins judgement.

 

[Esablade]

Totally agree with that, ideally i would go and sign Sam Morsy and Conor Hourihane to play there instead but we don't sign good players from our league.

But it is clear that movement is our main problem and at least Reed and Scougall are both capable of moving faster than snail pace

We did last Jan with Done...teams in L1 always seem to offload in Jan ( if contracts are up in the summer) because they can bump the price right up to desperado's like us!...and unlike us, bring in two or three very decent players! Lol..

 

[Revolution]

I think people are going over the top with ridiculing and abusing the players. It is too simplistic to complain about a lack of effort. It is ignorant to say they're all crap. We lack balance, and at the moment mobility is the main problem.

I don't expect to see Hammond, Baxter or Coutts making these runs. It is not what they are good at. That's why they can't all be selected in the same team, they share the same weakness. There are different options within the team that could make us more mobile, play with a higher tempo and counter attack a lot better.

Great analysis Bergen - hit the nail on the head with what was wrong with the midfield.

But whilst it is ignorant to use the word "crap", the point is valid:

Coutts, Hammond, and Basham are all slow.
Reed and Scougall are a bit quicker but are both too lightweight. Scougall's ball control is poor.
None of these five players can shoot (3 league goals between them in - what - 120 games? 150 games?) and rarely provide a killer pass for an assist.
Baxter can shoot, and pass, but is indisciplined, slow and inconsistent
J Wallace is never fit

I may be wrong, but I suspect nobody disputes much of what I've said above.

The point is - unless they all play out of their skins, you can't make a decent or balanced 2 man midfield out of that lot - 3 would work, but that's sacrificing decent strikers IMHO. We can - and do - debate this all day, but the players are not good enough. They are too one dimensional and limited. Barnyblade is right - there will always be problems whoever we play in midfield.

I am starting to despair with Adkins. Why sign Hammond if he doesn't possess any of the attributes we are missing?

This is the thing that's going to cost us promotion IMHO.

 

[RMBlade]

I wasn't at the game so I didn't see it first hand, but Baxter isn't suited to a 2 man CAM formation. These CAMs need a bit of pace and lots of movement, Baxter doesn't tick any of these boxes.

For me the only way Baxter gets a shirt is if he just sits behind the ST. Anywhere else and he doesn't get in the side.

With regards to the rest of the midfield I would play

Hammond Reed
---------Baxter

when defending Hammond can drop back and sit just in front of the defence and Reed can pressure.

For me Scougs is shocking and has been for some time, he literally brings nothing to the table. Leave him in the U21's maybe he will decide he wants to leave in Jan if not hes out of contract in the summer i believe.

Coutts its worth having around as back up to Hammond but cannot play together, but if we bring in a CH do we need Coutts? surely Basham could cover that.

At the moment everyone seems to be doubling up on Adams if we use him as a decoy spread it wide, dragging their defence over to his side then looking to square it to Reed/Baxter I think we will be able to find holes for Baxter to play thread passes through to Sharp and Done.

 

[RMBlade]

I am starting to despair with Adkins. Why sign Hammond if he doesn't possess any of the attributes we are missing?

I think bringing in Hammond was more to free up Basham so we could play him at CB rather than bringing in something different in CM.

 

[Revolution]

I think bringing in Hammond was more to free up Basham so we could play him at CB rather than bringing in something different in CM.

Well, that's a move I can get behind, but why replace him with yet another slow player who doesn't get forward? It's very short sighted.

 

[secretchief]

The message I am getting is when teams sit very deep we can't do anything to hurt them, just as when they press us high we can't do anything to hurt them. Is there no beginning to our talents?

 

[finlaytheblade]

I think our lack of mobility in midfield was a problem against Crewe. Our line up was

Howard
Flynn Basham Collins Harris
Coutts Hammond
- - - Baxter - - - - - - - - - Adams
Done Sharp​

I think the plan was for Hammond and Coutts to control things in midfield and let Baxter have a free role in midfield, where he was urged to find space between Crewe's midfield and defence centrally as well. Crewe have some giant centre halves, so I think Adkins wanted two small strikers to cause them problems on the ground.

Crewe dropped very deep at times and this meant we struggled to find space. Done never found space to run in behind, Baxter couldn't find room in front of their defence. Sharp was well marked and Adams struggled to get into the game as well, slipping on a few vital occasions.

Eventually Baxter started coming deep as well, and this meant we had three players trying to playmake from deep with none of them making effective forward runs on or off the ball.

An example of us having little rhythm in the way we pass and move: Coutts gets on the ball and Sharps comes for the ball, taking a centre half with him. This opens up a gap in their defence, but Baxter isn't the type to make these off the ball runs and we end up playing it backwards again:




When we struggle to break down a team which gets many men behind the ball, counter attacks can be vital. As soon as we realise the opposition finally have overcomitted themselves going forward, we must bomb forward (sprint, not run) with several runs and the ball must go forward urgently before the opposition get men behind the ball again. A failed attempt:



Another one:




I think people are going over the top with ridiculing and abusing the players. It is too simplistic to complain about a lack of effort. It is ignorant to say they're all crap. We lack balance, and at the moment mobility is the main problem.

I don't expect to see Hammond, Baxter or Coutts making these runs. It is not what they are good at. That's why they can't all be selected in the same team, they share the same weakness. There are different options within the team that could make us more mobile, play with a higher tempo and counter attack a lot better.

Good post bergen the voice of reason we are struggling at the moment but. all not bad!!!. Adkins is trying to formulate. way of playing that will bring success. we are unbalanced and he will know it.
He inherited. A squad which was based on hold what you have and a break will come that's how Clough did it in that remarkable. Run we had starting at Fulham boring but can be very effective most teams in this division set up to play this way when they play us banking on frustrations
Which consume our players and fans. Adkins is trying to play in a way to absorb that and try and get on the front foot(2 holding players)it will work when he gets the right players in there.Give him time I am sure he will get it right but between now and then using the players he has is proving difficult I think Hammond has been brought in with this in mind but we are still a bit short he knows what he is doing and I think the transfer window is going to be very significant

 

[Dnblade]

We seem to be over playing and lack someone to run with the ball in central areas for me...Hammond and Coutts do a similar job,and with Jose on the right.it's like Bergen says...we had 3 playmakers...The alternatives are to include Scougall or maybe if they were fit,Cuvelier or Wallace to maybe run past someone and open things up..there were times when we passed it square when there was an opportunity to run past a man into space and do just that...I would have liked to have seen JCR come on and run at them and give us more width,it all seems a bit narrow and predictable at the moment.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I don't know how Done even got a shirt after his performance v Millwall? He has always worked hard off the ball, chased lost causes and put the opposition under pressure, but he just wasn't even slightly interested last week. Was he the same v Crewe and did he get a full game? Decisions like that are what make me question Adkins judgement.

He was tripping, ready to run in behind, but there never were rarely any space to run into after the first ten minutes, and only failed attempts at through balls. Against Millwall he played wide midfield in a 4-4-2, not a position that suits him, in my opinion, and therefore not a good reason to write him off. He was ineffective against Crewe, but I think our poor tempo and poorly balanced midfield made it difficult for him.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Tommas, what do you think to trying Hammond, Reid and Scougall as a midfield 3?
The lack of mobility in the middle is the main problem for me and i think Reed and Scouggs are they only options we really have for that as i would want to keep Basham in defence. Hopefully with some young energetic legs around him we would see an improvement in Hammond.

Freeman Collins Basham Harris
-------------Hammond---------------
---------- Reed----Scougall---------
JCR--------------------------Adams
---------------Sharp-------------------

I think that would be similar to what we played in the cup games against Tottenham and QPR, with Hammond coming in for Doyle. It's certainly a lot more mobile than our Crewe line up and we would probably counter attack a lot better. The weakness would be lack of height throughout the team, and there is a concern regarding League One midfielders bullying Reed/Scougs if they both play.

 

[MiserableBlader]

Great analysis Bergen - hit the nail on the head with what was wrong with the midfield.

But whilst it is ignorant to use the word "crap", the point is valid:

Coutts, Hammond, and Basham are all slow.
Reed and Scougall are a bit quicker but are both too lightweight. Scougall's ball control is poor.
None of these five players can shoot (3 league goals between them in - what - 120 games? 150 games?) and rarely provide a killer pass for an assist.
Baxter can shoot, and pass, but is indisciplined, slow and inconsistent
J Wallace is never fit

I may be wrong, but I suspect nobody disputes much of what I've said above.

The point is - unless they all play out of their skins, you can't make a decent or balanced 2 man midfield out of that lot - 3 would work, but that's sacrificing decent strikers IMHO. We can - and do - debate this all day, but the players are not good enough. They are too one dimensional and limited. Barnyblade is right - there will always be problems whoever we play in midfield.

I am starting to despair with Adkins. Why sign Hammond if he doesn't possess any of the attributes we are missing?

This is the thing that's going to cost us promotion IMHO.

FFS. It's Flynn and Basham as I've been saying since I saw Flynn playing full back against Soton (or was it Spurs?) last year.
Simples.
Pick your best players in the best position for the team and the results will come

JCR Flynn Basham Done
Sharp Adams

 

[Bergen Blade]

Wouldn't argue with any of that. Though one or two are a bit crap aren't they?

I personally think they are all good at some things and all can play at our current level. But some of them are rubbish at certain things, and therefore need teammates who can compensate. So if we're going to play Coutts, there has to be absolutely superb fitness around him, and he's got to be given a role that doesn't require him to cover a lot of grass.

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

What's wrong is simple to me.

• No tempo in possession

• Too slow at closing down when we're not in possession

• No runs off the ball, hence no options for the man on the ball

Basically, they're just a set of lazy bastards.

The number of times during a match I find myself shouting, "Help him!" would tend to back that up ...

... either that or they're fecking clueless

 

[UnitedBlade]

This is still very worrying that we don't have a good mobile midfielder to drive forward, get into space and make killer passes.

I don't rate Scougall at all but struggle to think of anyone else. Adams I'm sure could do it but it would be a new role he'd have to learn. Freeman possibly, I think he's decent enough on the ball at L1 level. Possibly Brayford when he's fit.

Until we fix this problem, we'll continue to flounder. 7 wins from 16 games will not get us promotion. Adkins has to find the solution.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Great analysis Bergen - hit the nail on the head with what was wrong with the midfield.

But whilst it is ignorant to use the word "crap", the point is valid:

Coutts, Hammond, and Basham are all slow.
Reed and Scougall are a bit quicker but are both too lightweight. Scougall's ball control is poor.
None of these five players can shoot (3 league goals between them in - what - 120 games? 150 games?) and rarely provide a killer pass for an assist.
Baxter can shoot, and pass, but is indisciplined, slow and inconsistent
J Wallace is never fit

I may be wrong, but I suspect nobody disputes much of what I've said above.

The point is - unless they all play out of their skins, you can't make a decent or balanced 2 man midfield out of that lot - 3 would work, but that's sacrificing decent strikers IMHO. We can - and do - debate this all day, but the players are not good enough. They are too one dimensional and limited. Barnyblade is right - there will always be problems whoever we play in midfield.

I am starting to despair with Adkins. Why sign Hammond if he doesn't possess any of the attributes we are missing?

This is the thing that's going to cost us promotion IMHO.

We've got to try though and there are combinations that haven't been proven unsuccessful yet.

There are reasons why we didn't complain about Scougall's ball control, lack of goals and and being light weight in his first season, and in my opinion that's because he played in a well-balanced team. In poorly balanced teams players will be required to do things they're not very good at while also being unable to show their good qualities. Why can't we wait and see what happens if we get the balance right some day, before writing these players off?

 

[Revolution]

We've got to try though and there are combinations that haven't been proven unsuccessful yet.

There are reasons why we didn't complain about Scougall's ball control, lack of goals and and being light weight in his first season, and in my opinion that's because he played in a well-balanced team. In poorly balanced teams players will be required to do things they're not very good at while also being unable to show their good qualities. Why can't we wait and see what happens if we get the balance right some day, before writing these players off?

We must keep trying to find something that works. Agree 100%.

Scougalls deficiencies were less apparent or less of a problem then because he had a good defence behind him and more help in midfield - 5 across the middle and at times a false 9 too. Now we have a porous defence and less bodies in the middle. We cannot hide his weaknesses. The consensus seems to be he brings less to the table than any other CM. I would prefer to try and build around players with more upside (though they aren't much better).

 

[Karaoke Blade]

Great analysis Bergen.
This might already have been discussed, but I'd welcome your thoughts on Conor Sammon. I've been saying for weeks that I could'nt understand why he was dropped as I think he is the ideal foil for Sharp. I admit I don't get to see the away games but every time he's played at home I've been impressed.

 

[SUFC Guy]

There's always going to be problems whoever you play in the midfield.

Do you know who we need in Midfield with Hammond???....

Clones of K Mac and Coady

 

[him behind you]

I think our lack of mobility in midfield was a problem against Crewe. Our line up was

Howard
Flynn Basham Collins Harris
Coutts Hammond
- - - Baxter - - - - - - - - - Adams
Done Sharp​

I think the plan was for Hammond and Coutts to control things in midfield and let Baxter have a free role in midfield, where he was urged to find space between Crewe's midfield and defence centrally as well. Crewe have some giant centre halves, so I think Adkins wanted two small strikers to cause them problems on the ground.

Crewe dropped very deep at times and this meant we struggled to find space. Done never found space to run in behind, Baxter couldn't find room in front of their defence. Sharp was well marked and Adams struggled to get into the game as well, slipping on a few vital occasions.

Eventually Baxter started coming deep as well, and this meant we had three players trying to playmake from deep with none of them making effective forward runs on or off the ball.

An example of us having little rhythm in the way we pass and move: Coutts gets on the ball and Sharps comes for the ball, taking a centre half with him. This opens up a gap in their defence, but Baxter isn't the type to make these off the ball runs and we end up playing it backwards again:




When we struggle to break down a team which gets many men behind the ball, counter attacks can be vital. As soon as we realise the opposition finally have overcomitted themselves going forward, we must bomb forward (sprint, not run) with several runs and the ball must go forward urgently before the opposition get men behind the ball again. A failed attempt:



Another one:




I think people are going over the top with ridiculing and abusing the players. It is too simplistic to complain about a lack of effort. It is ignorant to say they're all crap. We lack balance, and at the moment mobility is the main problem.

I don't expect to see Hammond, Baxter or Coutts making these runs. It is not what they are good at. That's why they can't all be selected in the same team, they share the same weakness. There are different options within the team that could make us more mobile, play with a higher tempo and counter attack a lot better.

Excellent summary Bergs. The thing I find frustrating is why, when Sharpe comes deep for a ball, neither Adams nor Done actually make any runs in behind them. I moaned about this after both Fleetwood and Millwall games and still think that those two are a major part of our problems. I also think we don't press enough when we don't have the ball.