Neither of those were red cards

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Sheff de party

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Having been to the game and seen the highlights, I am pretty annoyed about both of those.

Baxter - clumsy, very late, unnecessary but not dangerous. Ref couldn't wait to send him off for something that was caused by Jose's lack of pace and seeming frustration that he was miles better than anyone on his team. Yellow and a stern talking to.

K Wallace - I'm waiting to get quoted "he was last man." Last man has nothing to do with it. It's denying a clear goalscoring opportunity. Outside the box when you have a covering defender is not a clear goalscoring opportunity, plus he barely touched him. Yellow card and a "stop pissing about lad" would have done fine.
 



I do think a different ref on another day would have given yellows to both of them, unfortunately I don't think they would win an appeal so it doesn't what any of us think.
 
Baxter's tackle wasn't just late - it was hard and late; not a combination referees tend to favour.

I agree Wallace was a bit unlucky though. Given the angle from the goal, there was at least one defender still to beat to get there.
 
Baxter's tackle reminded me of this bloke's tackling prowess in the 1960's and 70's.

john-mcgrath.jpg
John McGrath of Southampton - another one who was too slow to catch a cold. Mind you he was a defender and a thug and you could get away with far more then. Playing against Liverpool he was down to mark Liverpool starlet Alun Evans. As McGrath and Alun Evans went up for a ball, McGrath punched Alun Evans on the chin. Evans collapsed to the ground, unconscious. It took several minutes to revive him. Once Evans was back on his feet, the ref did not send McGrath off, did not book him, did not give Liverpool a free kick - he decided a drop ball was all that was required.
 
Baxter's looked a stonewall red card to me, completely idiotic. It's a shame because Adkins has shown an awful lot of faith in him and Baxter's been showing glimpses of why (Peterborough).

The thing is it's Jose that's creating the "Does the talent outweigh the baggage?" debate all by himself and all of it is so unnecessary. Messing about with drugs (x2 in his career), not taking his fitness seriously enough (this is debatable, but I've seen with my own eyes his weight and match fitness fluctuate wildly since he's been here, which would suggest he's not dieting or training, consistently or hard enough). And now he's adding these petulant red cards to his game. Roy Keane he is not. Baxter's role on a football field isn't "enforcer," it's playmaker. The type of red cards he gets aren't accumulated trying to further our cause (a professional foul), nor are they unlucky, or due to bad execution, they're just pure stupidity.

I've compared him a few times to Andy Reid who is another player blessed with talent, but not athleticism. The difference that I see is that Andy Reid seemed to work harder to find pockets of space during matches and could control the tempo from deep, or further up the field, he would often pick up the ball from outwide and penetrate defences with his passes in behind too. The reason that we always have the other Baxter debate, "Where is his best position?" is because he doesn't work hard enough, or isn't fit enough, as a midfielder to get around the park and influence matches from anywhere.

Andy Reid's deadball ability was second to none for a long time in the football league and he could single handedly decide matches with his incredible left foot (a match away at Millwall whilst on loan with us springs to mind, think we won it 4-2). Baxter has most of what Reid did (not all of it), but to get to that level of consistency requires hard training, dedication and a desire (especially during matches) that I just don't see in Baxter. Essentially what I think this means is that he is destined to remain a League 1 player with or without us next season and for seasons to come, unless, or until, he decides himself to make a change.
I wouldn't have sent Wallace off. Even if that had happened against us I wouldn't have been calling for it. It was the last minute of a cup match, no chance of a come back and goal difference meaning nothing. A 3 match suspension at stake (I think?) for an honest attempt at a challenge in the final minute of the game, when legs had tired. I'd have let it go at a yellow card and a bit of a "you're lucky on this one fella, another referee would have..." kind of word. But Wallace will learn and we move on.
 
The law of the game wrt Baxter includes the term reckless I think - it fits that description.

Wallace is about denying a goal scoring opportunity - it fits that description.

A different ref might have given one, or even two, yellow/s, but it's unlikely.

Blaming the ref distracts from the real issue which is the irresponsibility and lack of professionalism of the players involved. (I'd add Alcock to that.)

As a team and as a player you are not going to improve unless you take responsibility for extremely poor decisions. If you blame the ref, then you don't see any need to change and the problem persists.
 
Baxter's tackle reminded me of this bloke's tackling prowess in the 1960's and 70's.

View attachment 13049
John McGrath of Southampton - another one who was too slow to catch a cold. Mind you he was a defender and a thug and you could get away with far more then. Playing against Liverpool he was down to mark Liverpool starlet Alun Evans. As McGrath and Alun Evans went up for a ball, McGrath punched Alun Evans on the chin. Evans collapsed to the ground, unconscious. It took several minutes to revive him. Once Evans was back on his feet, the ref did not send McGrath off, did not book him, did not give Liverpool a free kick - he decided a drop ball was all that was required.

Ditto with this: Gary Sprake whacking Bobby Gould with a fall force left hook



These days that would be a straight red card, a ten game ban and possibly a prosecution for assault. Sprake just gets a booking (as inexplicably does Gould).
 
Ditto with this: Gary Sprake whacking Bobby Gould with a fall force left hook



These days that would be a straight red card, a ten game ban and possibly a prosecution for assault. Sprake just gets a booking (as inexplicably does Gould).


Not seen that before.

Gould stamps on, ok treads on, ok flicks at Sprake who retaliates. Maybe that accounts for the yellow. That does seem to be a bit of melodrama from Gould.

Two yellows. Different times.
 
Speaking of different times I read about this game, Italy v Chile 1962, when I was a kid but only saw footage recently. (Wikipedia's version below.)



The first foul occurred within 12 seconds of the kick-off.[1] Italy's Giorgio Ferrini was sent off in the twelfth minute after a foul on Honorino Landa, but refused to leave the pitch and had to be dragged off by policemen. Landa retaliated with a punch few minutes later, but he was not sent off.

English referee Ken Aston overlooked a punch by Chilean Leonel Sánchez to Italian Mario David, which had come in retaliation for being fouled seconds earlier. When David kicked Sanchez in the head a few minutes later, he was sent off.

In the violence that continued, Sanchez broke Humberto Maschio's nose with a left hook, but Aston did not send him off. The two teams engaged in scuffles and spitting, and police had to intervene three more times. Chile won the match 2–0.

When highlights from the match were shown on British television a couple of days later (not the same night, because film of matches still had to be flown back), the match was famously introduced by BBC sports commentator David Coleman as: "the most stupid, appalling, disgusting and disgraceful exhibition of football, possibly in the history of the game."
 
Baxter's is nearly always a red these days, 30 years ago it would have been applauded by the crowd and got them going. Probably a yellow too.

Wallace's was harsh, but that's how the red/lino saw it.
 
Not seen that before.

Gould stamps on, ok treads on, ok flicks at Sprake who retaliates. Maybe that accounts for the yellow. That does seem to be a bit of melodrama from Gould.

Two yellows. Different times.

Oh yes, I see that Gould flicks his heel at Sprake's bum. That's a fair old whack from Sprake though. You'd expect to be shaken by a punch like that.

I love it how the obviously unhurt Sprake collapses on the floor after the punch and the trainer comes on to see to him. Revie is stony faced on the bench, but I bet he was proud....
 
Having been to the game and seen the highlights, I am pretty annoyed about both of those.

Baxter - clumsy, very late, unnecessary but not dangerous. Ref couldn't wait to send him off for something that was caused by Jose's lack of pace and seeming frustration that he was miles better than anyone on his team. Yellow and a stern talking to.

K Wallace - I'm waiting to get quoted "he was last man." Last man has nothing to do with it. It's denying a clear goalscoring opportunity. Outside the box when you have a covering defender is not a clear goalscoring opportunity, plus he barely touched him. Yellow card and a "stop pissing about lad" would have done fine.

Oh dear, red and white tinted shades I think mate.

Both were red cards, no argument.
 
Baxter's looked a stonewall red card to me, completely idiotic. It's a shame because Adkins has shown an awful lot of faith in him and Baxter's been showing glimpses of why (Peterborough).

The thing is it's Jose that's creating the "Does the talent outweigh the baggage?" debate all by himself and all of it is so unnecessary. Messing about with drugs (x2 in his career), not taking his fitness seriously enough (this is debatable, but I've seen with my own eyes his weight and match fitness fluctuate wildly since he's been here, which would suggest he's not dieting or training, consistently or hard enough). And now he's adding these petulant red cards to his game. Roy Keane he is not. Baxter's role on a football field isn't "enforcer," it's playmaker. The type of red cards he gets aren't accumulated trying to further our cause (a professional foul), nor are they unlucky, or due to bad execution, they're just pure stupidity.

I've compared him a few times to Andy Reid who is another player blessed with talent, but not athleticism. The difference that I see is that Andy Reid seemed to work harder to find pockets of space during matches and could control the tempo from deep, or further up the field, he would often pick up the ball from outwide and penetrate defences with his passes in behind too. The reason that we always have the other Baxter debate, "Where is his best position?" is because he doesn't work hard enough, or isn't fit enough, as a midfielder to get around the park and influence matches from anywhere.

Andy Reid's deadball ability was second to none for a long time in the football league and he could single handedly decide matches with his incredible left foot (a match away at Millwall whilst on loan with us springs to mind, think we won it 4-2). Baxter has most of what Reid did (not all of it), but to get to that level of consistency requires hard training, dedication and a desire (especially during matches) that I just don't see in Baxter. Essentially what I think this means is that he is destined to remain a League 1 player with or without us next season and for seasons to come, unless, or until, he decides himself to make a change.
I wouldn't have sent Wallace off. Even if that had happened against us I wouldn't have been calling for it. It was the last minute of a cup match, no chance of a come back and goal difference meaning nothing. A 3 match suspension at stake (I think?) for an honest attempt at a challenge in the final minute of the game, when legs had tired. I'd have let it go at a yellow card and a bit of a "you're lucky on this one fella, another referee would have..." kind of word. But Wallace will learn and we move on.
I think the Millwall away game was 0-1 with a solitary goal from Reid.
 



Wallace I agree, but Baxter's is 100% a red card, all day long. He's a fucking idiot.
 
I think both were in that grey area of could be yellow or red. Wallace was arguably denying a goalscoring opportunity though not that clear cut and there wasn’t much contact but there was some.

Baxter was late and forceful but it was one footed. It reminded me of the one Mitrovic good booked for on the opening day for Newcastle where McLaren admitted “it could have been red”.

I think in the circumstances of the game already being over, the ref could have taken the lenient approach of booking and talking to both but I don’t see grounds for appeal as I don’t see either red card as being absolutely wrong.
 
Having been to the game and seen the highlights, I am pretty annoyed about both of those.

Baxter - clumsy, very late, unnecessary but not dangerous. Ref couldn't wait to send him off for something that was caused by Jose's lack of pace and seeming frustration that he was miles better than anyone on his team. Yellow and a stern talking to.

K Wallace - I'm waiting to get quoted "he was last man." Last man has nothing to do with it. It's denying a clear goalscoring opportunity. Outside the box when you have a covering defender is not a clear goalscoring opportunity, plus he barely touched him. Yellow card and a "stop pissing about lad" would have done fine.

Baxter's tackle was reckless he jumped into it, he was so late I thought it was a tackle for saturday's game
as for Wallace, committing a foul when you are the last man is denying a goal scoring oppotunity... had he not been tugged back he would have been 1-on-1 with the keeper thus a red card
 
Ditto with this: Gary Sprake whacking Bobby Gould with a fall force left hook



These days that would be a straight red card, a ten game ban and possibly a prosecution for assault. Sprake just gets a booking (as inexplicably does Gould).


I like to think the booking was for not taking the punch manfully enough. :)
 
Baxter's tackle was reckless he jumped into it, he was so late I thought it was a tackle for saturday's game
as for Wallace, committing a foul when you are the last man is denying a goal scoring oppotunity... had he not been tugged back he would have been 1-on-1 with the keeper thus a red card
Committing a foul when you're last man is not automatically a red card, if the attacking player's next touch takes him away from goal.
In this case I think you're probably right but Wallace hardly touched him and he would have stayed in his feet had it been in the middle of the pitch. But Wallace was naive. Which isn't the crime of the century when last season he was playing for Ilkeston.
 
Ditto with this: Gary Sprake whacking Bobby Gould with a fall force left hook



These days that would be a straight red card, a ten game ban and possibly a prosecution for assault. Sprake just gets a booking (as inexplicably does Gould).

That was a pretty 'robust' challenge by Gould tbf, looks to me like he was trying to 'do' Sprake.
Great bit of footage, until it pans to Revie. Twat.
 
Having been to the game and seen the highlights, I am pretty annoyed about both of those.

Baxter - clumsy, very late, unnecessary but not dangerous. Ref couldn't wait to send him off for something that was caused by Jose's lack of pace and seeming frustration that he was miles better than anyone on his team. Yellow and a stern talking to.

K Wallace - I'm waiting to get quoted "he was last man." Last man has nothing to do with it. It's denying a clear goalscoring opportunity. Outside the box when you have a covering defender is not a clear goalscoring opportunity, plus he barely touched him. Yellow card and a "stop pissing about lad" would have done fine.

Red or yellow, they were two stupid irresponsible challenges, particularly Baxter's.

Wallace 50/50 [but always risky] but for me Baxter's is a red 95% of the time.
 
This is what drives managers bonkers.

Has anyone been watching Bolton vs Blackburn ?

Grant Hanleys challenge !!!!

Fucking horrendous. Bolton lad (Silva?) lucky not to be seriously injured. Gets a yellow !!!

And our two get straight reds for far less.

UTB
 
Oh yes, I see that Gould flicks his heel at Sprake's bum. That's a fair old whack from Sprake though. You'd expect to be shaken by a punch like that.

I love it how the obviously unhurt Sprake collapses on the floor after the punch and the trainer comes on to see to him. Revie is stony faced on the bench, but I bet he was proud....

Revie was a despicable individual. He positively encouraged his players to cheat. He was the original "brown envelope" man, routinely bribing the opposition, using Bremner as his courier.
 

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