Baxter's role, and performance vs Blackpool

[Revolution]

They were just all the options. Not clear I know.

But you say he's 4th - I assume you rate Basham and Wallace higher. Who else?

 

[Jon K]

I think the biggest problem with Baxter in any role is his lack of pace, I can recall only one first time pass on Saturday, the rest of the time he takes too many touches and takes too long to choose his pass, giving the opposition time to both close him down and cover the runners. If he could just act / think a little quicker he would be a real class midfielder.

 

[Woodwardfan]

But you say he's 4th - I assume you rate Basham and Wallace higher. Who else?

My favourite player Reed. I don't rate Basham there really but at least he has the legs to play in 4-4-2.

 

[Darthblade]

He's been picked on potential for far too long. Now he's looking fit for the first time, I hope he actually fulfills it.

I actually agree with all Bergen's points above, but would have scored Baxter as a 6/10 based on exactly the same analysis. It all amounted to a satisfactory effort, not a good one.

Agreed here .... satisfactory, but not very effective.
One "Hollywood" pass in the first half which was excellent, but mostly sideways or backwards.
I will be happier with Wallace & Basham in CM when Wallace is fit .....
UTB & FTP

 

[Barney]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but why not just switch Basham and Baxter and their roles?

Basham would be much more effective in the role Baxter is currently carrying out. Baxter is more of a creative attacking midfielder personally and not being hindered by this role he seems to be attempting would of great benefit to us and himself alike.

 

[Wards]

Well the idea is to link the defence and midfield together. Unfortunately Bash has a touch like a rapist and likely not comfortable receiving the ball with his back to goal 25 yards from our box. Baxter is ideal for this IMO, even if it restricts his going forward. Not a lot for him to pick out on Saturday with their 10 men behind approach.

 

[Darthblade]

Well the idea is to link the defence and midfield together. Unfortunately Bash has a touch like a rapist and likely not comfortable receiving the ball with his back to goal 25 yards from our box. Baxter is ideal for this IMO, even if it restricts his going forward. Not a lot for him to pick out on Saturday with their 10 men behind approach.

The vast majority of our home league games will be just like Saturday, with the opposition cramming 10 men behind the ball, therefore our CM playmaker MUST be able to break that down. Baxter didn't really step up to the plate in that respect, so I would like to see J Wallace have a go, once fit.
We need players who can break down massed defence either with a killer pass or by running with the ball themselves, or we're going to see more of what we got 1st half against Blackpool, which was crap.
UTB & FTP

 

[loyalblade95]

Our last three managers have all seen fit to include Baxter in the starting line-up so he can't be that shit, can he? Surely our last three managers know more about what constitutes our strongest team than people posting on this forum*

*With the possible exception of Weir.

Good player best option for him is an attacking midfield but he's adapting to the deep midfield role good enough for managers to play him even weir who bought him in probably the only good thing he did

 

[Fulwood Blade]

The vast majority of our home league games will be just like Saturday, with the opposition cramming 10 men behind the ball, therefore our CM playmaker MUST be able to break that down. Baxter didn't really step up to the plate in that respect, so I would like to see J Wallace have a go, once fit.
We need players who can break down massed defence either with a killer pass or by running with the ball themselves, or we're going to see more of what we got 1st half against Blackpool, which was crap.
UTB & FTP

You have my 100% support in your observations.

Who ever is to play CM must be able to crack a 10 man defence. If they can't then they are not good enough.
My opinion is you pass and move it quickly - Baxter is not now and never will be that type of player.
Wallace is physically fit, but Baxter has the shirt at present. What Wallace needs to do is have a stormer v Fulham.

UTB

 

[Captain]

Our last three managers have all seen fit to include Baxter in the starting line-up so he can't be that shit, can he? Surely our last three managers know more about what constitutes our strongest team than people posting on this forum*

*With the possible exception of Weir.

And that's one of the reasons we remain in Division 3 , and on the evidence to date promotion by no means a cert!

 

[Darthblade]

You have my 100% support in your observations.

Who ever is to play CM must be able to crack a 10 man defence. If they can't then they are not good enough.
My opinion is you pass and move it quickly - Baxter is not now and never will be that type of player.
Wallace is physically fit, but Baxter has the shirt at present. What Wallace needs to do is have a stormer v Fulham.

UTB

Agreed .... pass & move, one-twos and good movement up-front, or some variation will be needed because there aren't going to be many teams in the league games ( if any ), who will come and attack us and let us have room to play slow build up stuff.
I will be happy if Wallace can increase his game time over the next few weeks and play 30 - 35 games for us this season.
UTB & FTP

 

[Dnblade]

First of all,great post and analysis Bergen,your spot on.
I think in recent seasons we've seen the Centre Backs bring the ball out,whereas now they pull wide and Baxter drops in,and sets up the play from there...it's taking a bit of getting used to,but Blackpool were well organised,it's a bit difficult to be expected to just ping it about from being that deep with 10 men behind the ball...he often plays it to Bash or the Full Back before attempting a more positive pass,and then gets into more advanced positions as the attack progresses...but if the attack breaks down it doesn't allow him to...I don't agree with the view that he slows us down..he plays a lot of first time passes and keeps the ball moving,even if it is sometimes sideways,but he passes it off sideways to receive it back again to try and look for options to pass forwards.I don't think he was great on Saturday,but he was at least trying to make things happen,and wasn't helped that our front 2 were kept in check by Blackpool in the first half..Infact there was only JCR and occasionally the 2 Full Backs who managed to run past people,and it was fairly easy for Blackpool to just keep there shape..what was up with Bash?..he was great off the ball but was slow and ineffective when in possesion..for me,he should have tried running with the ball more to help open things up,we've not seen him do any of that lately..anyway I suppose the jury's still out on Jose...only time will tell,or maybe we should be looking at Bash to contribute more going forwards.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but why not just switch Basham and Baxter and their roles?

Basham would be much more effective in the role Baxter is currently carrying out. Baxter is more of a creative attacking midfielder personally and not being hindered by this role he seems to be attempting would of great benefit to us and himself alike.

By and large last Saturday the two of them stood alongside each other and didn't venture into the final third. They were under orders.

 

[grafikhaus]

but Blackpool were well organised,it's a bit difficult to be expected to just ping it about from being that deep with 10 men behind the ball...

As Saturday proved, every game will bring challenges - there will be no 'easy' games. Far from 'parking the bus' Blackpool worked extremely hard and, if that free kick had gone in, who knows? For a team with rock-bottom morale, a chairman who can't be bothered to turn up and no money for transfers, they were a credit. Good report here from the Blackpool Gazette.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

The vast majority of our home league games will be just like Saturday, with the opposition cramming 10 men behind the ball, therefore our CM playmaker MUST be able to break that down. Baxter didn't really step up to the plate in that respect, so I would like to see J Wallace have a go, once fit.
We need players who can break down massed defence either with a killer pass or by running with the ball themselves, or we're going to see more of what we got 1st half against Blackpool, which was crap.
UTB & FTP

Tbf, breaking down a massed, well organized defence is such a very difficult thing to do at any level* (& Blackpool, to their credit, were extremely well organized & disciplined) - & Baxter needs far better options that he was given Saturday to be able to execute his role more effectively. Options like the one Kieran Wallace gave him towards the end of the first half with his superb, penetrative run - & which Baxter exploited perfectly.

I'd say against Chessie we had 6, maybe 7, players putting in above average performances (admittedly in a much more open game where it was less difficult to shine individually) - but, against Blackpool there were just 3 (& that's being generous) 7+/10s in my view. It was generally sluggish, a poor performance all round. Not that it's a worry - we won, this time via two quality strikers for this level & by use of the subs bench & an imaginative set-piece routine. But it will be very interesting to see how we deal with this problem as the Adkins Revolution develops.


* Caught the second half of Arsenal-Liverpool last night & Arsenal, for all their quality, faced just the same problem against a blanket defence.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

As Saturday proved, every game will bring challenges - there will be no 'easy' games. Far from 'parking the bus' Blackpool worked extremely hard and, if that free kick had gone in, who knows? For a team with rock-bottom morale, a chairman who can't be bothered to turn up and no money for transfers, they were a credit. Good report here from the Blackpool Gazette.

Would you put them bottom 4?

Didn't they work extremely hard at parking the bus though?

Bit reminiscent of a Clough team - keep it tight, try and score but always hoping as against making something happen. Just feel they might suffer as the season goes on.

UTB

 

[grafikhaus]

Would you put them bottom 4?

Didn't they work extremely hard at parking the bus though?

Bit reminiscent of a Clough team - keep it tight, try and score but always hoping as against making something happen. Just feel they might suffer as the season goes on.

UTB

Far too early to be looking at tables. Nobody in the League games has scored more than 2 against them. Thankfully we didn't play like a Clough team or we'd have lost. I think 'parking the bus' is often confused with being organised/putting up a spirited defence (maybe if we'd 'parked the bus' at Gillingham...?) Yes, they could go down as they'll have problems attracting anybody half-decent but we'd better get used to long periods of inaction as, at the moment, we're far too pedestrian. At least NA saw the problem and addressed it with effective substitutions. One of our better players on Saturday (J C-R) wouldn't have even been here if Clough was still around.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

The vast majority of our home league games will be just like Saturday, with the opposition cramming 10 men behind the ball, therefore our CM playmaker MUST be able to break that down. Baxter didn't really step up to the plate in that respect, so I would like to see J Wallace have a go, once fit.
We need players who can break down massed defence either with a killer pass or by running with the ball themselves, or we're going to see more of what we got 1st half against Blackpool, which was crap.
UTB & FTP

Satdi was all about the team, manager included, learning that the opposition might park the bus, figuring out what to do, and then doing it successfully.

Up till that game Blackpool had played.a.4-4-2 and that is what we had prepared for.

I think it's very encouraging that manager and players were able to switch plans so quickly and effectively.

They'll've learned a lot from that, and unlike, say, Gilllingham, they got 3 points at the same time.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I see people saying Baxter and Basham should swap roles due to Baxter’s greater creativity and Basham’s defensive superiority. However, I think the reasons they are playing these roles are as follows:-

1. Baxter is better at receiving the ball under pressure and getting his head up and finding a teammate. If Basham had a lot of the ball that deep I suspect he would get caught in possession more.

2. Basham has the legs to get up and down the pitch so is allowed more license to attack as there is a confidence he can get back and help out defensively if a move breaks down.

3. Basham is better in the air so tries to make late runs into the box to get on the end of crosses like he did in the playoff game against Swindon.

For me, it’s the right way to use what we have. I do like Wallace though and I think Reed also has something to offer. I think that will be our main quartet for the CM roles this year. It will be interesting to see if Coutts can get himself fit and also offer something. I suspect Flo will prove too soft for 442 (based on the handful of games I’ve seen from him).

People are complaining that we struggled to break Blackpool down but let’s not forget, whilst they frustrated us for a while, we did break them down eventually and scored 2 goals having just created a couple of good chances beforehand.

We have the options to vary our play and cause teams problems.

I also think people are too critical of our central midfielders and don’t give enough credit for the fact they are playing as a 2 against midfield 3s so we can have the extra man up front. That limits the opportunities for them to bomb on. Brad Potts got a lot of good reviews for Blackpool on Saturday (I was also impressed with him) but let’s not forget he was playing at the tip of a midfield 3 so he had 2 behind him doing the dirty work giving him the freedom to express himself. Most players look better in that scenario.

I’m more concerned about our Defence when we come up against the better sides. I think we need a better partner for Edgar as the main priority whether that be moving Basham back there or bringing in a centre half.

It would also be nice to have another match-winning winger on the books to replace Murphy. Byrne or Dack would be good. Not seen enough of Carayol or March to give a firm opinion although Carayol appears to have bags of pace from the clips I’ve seen.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Tbf, breaking down a massed, well organized defence is such a very difficult thing to do at any level* (& Blackpool, to their credit, were extremely well organized & disciplined) - & Baxter needs far better options that he was given Saturday to be able to execute his role more effectively. Options like the one Kieran Wallace gave him towards the end of the first half with his superb, penetrative run - & which Baxter exploited perfectly.

I'd say against Chessie we had 6, maybe 7, players putting in above average performances (admittedly in a much more open game where it was less difficult to shine individually) - but, against Blackpool there were just 3 (& that's being generous) 7+/10s in my view. It was generally sluggish, a poor performance all round. Not that it's a worry - we won, this time via two quality strikers for this level & by use of the subs bench & an imaginative set-piece routine. But it will be very interesting to see how we deal with this problem as the Adkins Revolution develops.


* Caught the second half of Arsenal-Liverpool last night & Arsenal, for all their quality, faced just the same problem against a blanket defence.

I think Satdi.was a.game if two halves, and when we'd figured out how to break them down ie give the ball to JCR we looked effective almost immediately. There was Sammon's miss before the goal, and plenty of penetration down that side. We went two up and then controlled the game. I'm surprised the crowd didn't start Ole-Ing (not something I'm a fan of btw).

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Tbf, breaking down a massed, well organized defence is such a very difficult thing to do at any level* (& Blackpool, to their credit, were extremely well organized & disciplined) - & Baxter needs far better options that he was given Saturday to be able to execute his role more effectively. Options like the one Kieran Wallace gave him towards the end of the first half with his superb, penetrative run - & which Baxter exploited perfectly.

I'd say against Chessie we had 6, maybe 7, players putting in above average performances (admittedly in a much more open game where it was less difficult to shine individually) - but, against Blackpool there were just 3 (& that's being generous) 7+/10s in my view. It was generally sluggish, a poor performance all round. Not that it's a worry - we won, this time via two quality strikers for this level & by use of the subs bench & an imaginative set-piece routine. But it will be very interesting to see how we deal with this problem as the Adkins Revolution develops.


* Caught the second half of Arsenal-Liverpool last night & Arsenal, for all their quality, faced just the same problem against a blanket defence.

But I agree breaking down a well parked bus can be really difficult.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Funnily enough, the Blackpool fans started Ole-ing when they had a spell of possession at 2-0 down. Think that's the first time I've seen a losing team Ole-ing.

 

[coaxingstar71]

I think perhaps we've done this thread to death now but I'll string it out a bit longer....
1. I don't think Baxter can be solely to blame for a poor first half performance, he needs his team mates to help out.
2. I don't think Baxter can be given all the credit for the improvement in the 2nd half, his team mates (and manager) deserve equal credit.
3. I think we'll find out where this team are properly when we've played Swindon who certainly won't sit back with 10 men behind the ball.