Lessons from History

[Bladesway]

This is a post in response to others about selling of players and values. This is just the last 20 years and off the top of my head.

Sold Brian Deane, relegated
Sold Deane, Fjortoft and a host of good players, promotion missed
Hulse breaks leg, relegated
Sell BT and other best players, promotion missed
Kyles sold, club slides further down the toilet towards League One
Ched sent down, promotion missed
Quinn & Blackman sold (latter when top of table), promotion missed
McGuire sold, promotion missed and huge hole in central defence never patched up

I haven't included the net effect of selling Edwards to Leeds and Cockerill to Southampton at the time but we didn't improve in fact if memory serves me we replaced them with a dads army of old men and ended up going backwards.

Whatever the value of the above (combined or individual) the overall effect has probably cost this club hundreds of millions of pounds in lost revenue. We can argue over blame, we can argue over the actual effect of selling/losing our best players in certain cases, but what we cannot argue over is that every time we lose these players and replace them we become weaker (anyone remember Jostein Flo as the replacement for Brian Deane!?!)

So before people go down the road of speculating on £2m or £5m for Jamie Murphy, what is the actual cost of losing that player? I would say in the case of Murphy, Done and Brayford they are irreplacable in the short term. Players who can change a game. Players who can win you a game from nothing. 3 points rather than none. In this league as much as any other this is going to be key to promotion.

When we start talking about part deals for our own players like Murphy just to get Billy Sharp (no E at the end) to come back in an act of sad bladey, bladeness you are taking out someone who is a surefire matchwinner on occasion and replacing with someone who has never quite done it for us (for whatever reason).

I am genuinely shocked some people think this is a solution of any sort. My solution is we either get our hands in our pockets and enhance the squad, adding to the good players we have, casting those who aren't so good out elsewhere, selling/loaning whatever and treating those match winners we have like gold.

 

[georgebernardshaw]

I still miss Mick Jones

 

[bladesmanluke]

Kevin McDonald too.

With every sale there's been muppets telling us it's a good deal n all. You'd have to be mentally deficient to see any positive in selling your best player

 

[UnitedBlade]

I still miss Mick Jones

That's when it all started.

 

[georgebernardshaw]

Let's be honest here, successive boards of Sheffield United couldn't run a whelk stall

 

[wizadry]

This is a post in response to others about selling of players and values. This is just the last 20 years and off the top of my head.

Sold Brian Deane, relegated
Sold Deane, Fjortoft and a host of good players, promotion missed
Hulse breaks leg, relegated
Sell BT and other best players, promotion missed
Kyles sold, club slides further down the toilet towards League One
Ched sent down, promotion missed
Quinn & Blackman sold (latter when top of table), promotion missed
McGuire sold, promotion missed and huge hole in central defence never patched up

I haven't included the net effect of selling Edwards to Leeds and Cockerill to Southampton at the time but we didn't improve in fact if memory serves me we replaced them with a dads army of old men and ended up going backwards.

Whatever the value of the above (combined or individual) the overall effect has probably cost this club hundreds of millions of pounds in lost revenue. We can argue over blame, we can argue over the actual effect of selling/losing our best players in certain cases, but what we cannot argue over is that every time we lose these players and replace them we become weaker (anyone remember Jostein Flo as the replacement for Brian Deane!?!)

So before people go down the road of speculating on £2m or £5m for Jamie Murphy, what is the actual cost of losing that player? I would say in the case of Murphy, Done and Brayford they are irreplacable in the short term. Players who can change a game. Players who can win you a game from nothing. 3 points rather than none. In this league as much as any other this is going to be key to promotion.

When we start talking about part deals for our own players like Murphy just to get Billy Sharp (no E at the end) to come back in an act of sad bladey, bladeness you are taking out someone who is a surefire matchwinner on occasion and replacing with someone who has never quite done it for us (for whatever reason).

I am genuinely shocked some people think this is a solution of any sort. My solution is we either get our hands in our pockets and enhance the squad, adding to the good players we have, casting those who aren't so good out elsewhere, selling/loaning whatever and treating those match winners we have like gold.

Great post BW but unfortunately some still won't get it.

 

[alpine blade]

This is a post in response to others about selling of players and values. This is just the last 20 years and off the top of my head.

Sold Brian Deane, relegated
Sold Deane, Fjortoft and a host of good players, promotion missed
Hulse breaks leg, relegated
Sell BT and other best players, promotion missed
Kyles sold, club slides further down the toilet towards League One
Ched sent down, promotion missed
Quinn & Blackman sold (latter when top of table), promotion missed
McGuire sold, promotion missed and huge hole in central defence never patched up

I haven't included the net effect of selling Edwards to Leeds and Cockerill to Southampton at the time but we didn't improve in fact if memory serves me we replaced them with a dads army of old men and ended up going backwards.

Whatever the value of the above (combined or individual) the overall effect has probably cost this club hundreds of millions of pounds in lost revenue. We can argue over blame, we can argue over the actual effect of selling/losing our best players in certain cases, but what we cannot argue over is that every time we lose these players and replace them we become weaker (anyone remember Jostein Flo as the replacement for Brian Deane!?!)

So before people go down the road of speculating on £2m or £5m for Jamie Murphy, what is the actual cost of losing that player? I would say in the case of Murphy, Done and Brayford they are irreplacable in the short term. Players who can change a game. Players who can win you a game from nothing. 3 points rather than none. In this league as much as any other this is going to be key to promotion.

When we start talking about part deals for our own players like Murphy just to get Billy Sharp (no E at the end) to come back in an act of sad bladey, bladeness you are taking out someone who is a surefire matchwinner on occasion and replacing with someone who has never quite done it for us (for whatever reason).

I am genuinely shocked some people think this is a solution of any sort. My solution is we either get our hands in our pockets and enhance the squad, adding to the good players we have, casting those who aren't so good out elsewhere, selling/loaning whatever and treating those match winners we have like gold.

 

[Trigger Blade]

I still miss Mick Jones

For me, Joe Strummer was a bigger loss.

 

[metalblade]

Without the goals from Murphy last season we would only have got 58pts just 8 above a relegation spot nevermind taking into account all the assists and yet we have posters on this forum shouting gerrim sold. Utter madness he scored nearly 20% of our goals last season yet some fools still want to bring back twice failed Billy Sharp in Murphy's place feck me they must be on drugs and tripping. If this is how the fans think there is no hope for this club, Bladey bladeness at it's worst the only time any player should be sold is when we have a better player in place on a long contract. I'm shocked that some still think we can sell a player for millions and just go out and get a better replacement, it isn't that easy on Football Manager, FFS it has never happened we can go back to 1967/68 and the sale of Mick Jones/Birchenhall result relegation the only time this club has had anything like a decent team is when we hang on to our best players. Back to recent history since relegation from the Premiership all we have done is sell in every transfer window and the result is a fifth year in the third tier, maybe the board are beginning to learn we actually invested in the JTW will the fans learn ? Don't look like it, we still have the shouts of Bladey bladeness bring Sharp back, Brownie and now Monty................. and sell off the family jewels to finance it ................................. arrrrrrrgh only in S2

 

[Bugboyblade]

Who's BT ?

 

[boo radley]

I still miss Mick Jones

I'll tell him when I see him.

 

[Bladesway]

Who's BT ?

James Beattie to you.

 

[georgebernardshaw]

I'll tell him when I see him.

Please do boo - you might be interested to know that I met Alan Clarke a few years ago, he was doing some work for a haulage firm owned by one of his mates, and we were waiting in reception for our contacts to wake up. I asked him about the Leeds team, and who did he think was the best player in that team - "Mick Jones", he said.

 

[Esablade]

...I do think we've turned the corner a bit re: transfer's actually. I know we sold Harry, but that was down to the lad himself...and we didn't make it easy.

If a player really wants to leave and monies on the table, there's not much the club can do sadly...at least while in L1...

I hope Murphy is settled up here and wants to give it another go but could understand if he wants to move on to a higher level and more dosh, similar with McDonald to Wolves.

He's good enough to play in the Champ and do well.

 

[Sirius]

Let's be honest here, successive boards of Sheffield United couldn't run a whelk stall

Maybe that's why they were elected to the Board. Unless I Sam mistaken, Jim'S lot are a different kettle of fish.

 

[raul]

This is a post in response to others about selling of players and values. This is just the last 20 years and off the top of my head.

Sold Brian Deane, relegated
Sold Deane, Fjortoft and a host of good players, promotion missed
Hulse breaks leg, relegated
Sell BT and other best players, promotion missed
Kyles sold, club slides further down the toilet towards League One
Ched sent down, promotion missed
Quinn & Blackman sold (latter when top of table), promotion missed
McGuire sold, promotion missed and huge hole in central defence never patched up

.

All of them were either injury prone,not actually that good anyway, being disruptive in order to force a move or just had a cold. Excellent bits of business all round.

 

[blade too long]

much as it sounds like weve sold a lot with these lists its not really more than most clubs have sold in the past 25 years

Take any club at random

say Millwall , have they not sold 20 or so decent players over the past 20 odd years
armstrong ward lawrence sherringham wise grabban livermore iffill , the list is just as long

its a fact of football
players come and players go

 

[DazBlade88]

Alot of teams sell their best players and still end up doing well, so it can work both ways. We just don't replace them at all or replace them with shit, that's the problem.

 

[Revolution]

This destructive policy has been made worse by the use to which the money has been put. When did we last sell a player for big money and use the money to buy quality players? Howard Kendall did a good job with the Nathan Blake money, as the cash from that deal freed up cash to sign a number of useful players, but since then I'm struggling...

Actually now I think of it, the 4 million we got for Jags was essentially given straight back to Everton for Beattie, who although over-valued at the side of Jags was a damn good signing and would have gone a long way to winning promotion. Shame Bryan Robson was in charge that year.

 

[Silent Blade]

I still miss Mick Jones

That's when it all started.

No it started when we sold Alf Common in 1904!

 

[Silent Blade]

I haven't included the net effect of selling Edwards to Leeds and Cockerill to Southampton at the time but we didn't improve in fact if memory serves me we replaced them with a dads army of old men and ended up going backwards.

.

We signed a Dad's Army of old men before we sold Cockerill and Edwards

 

[Revolution]

No it started when we sold Alf Common in 1904!

My favourite player sale parallel:

1933: Sell Jimmy Dunne
1934: relegated

1993: sell Brian Deane
1994: relegated

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

Kevin McDonald too.

With every sale there's been muppets telling us it's a good deal n all. You'd have to be mentally deficient to see any positive in selling your best player

On stage at the 125 bash, Alan Woodward said to the board, "Stop selling your best players!"

 

[Silent Blade]

My favourite player sale parallel:

1933: Sell Jimmy Dunne
1934: relegated

1993: sell Brian Deane
1994: relegated

1948: Sell Alex Forbes
1949: relegated

 

[Bladesway]

much as it sounds like weve sold a lot with these lists its not really more than most clubs have sold in the past 25 years

Take any club at random

say Millwall , have they not sold 20 or so decent players over the past 20 odd years
armstrong ward lawrence sherringham wise grabban livermore iffill , the list is just as long

its a fact of football
players come and players go

Well you say that but actually take any club that isn't doing very well. I'll give you Bristol Rovers as a great example of a club thats sold shitloads of good players and they are just getting back into the top 4 divisions. You care to name anyone who sells their best players and does better in spite of it? Southampton are the current exception but lets see where they end up in a couple of seasons time.

 

[Deleted member 875]

Kevin McDonald too.

With every sale there's been muppets telling us it's a good deal n all. You'd have to be mentally deficient to see any positive in selling your best player

Kevin McDonald made it abundantly clear he didn't want to stay at the lane and couldn't wait to clear off.

 

[Dalelane01]

No team wants to sell there best players sometimes its the players that want to leave lets see if n/a can persuade the current best players to stay and if he can the board should support him as they appointed him if n/a decides he would like to sell a certain player no doubt he will have replacements in mind our current squad does have pontential its just getting the right person to get the best out of them obviously he will have a plan and it will take time to unfold which we will see in our first ten games or so every confidence in n/a

 

[blade too long]

This destructive policy has been made worse by the use to which the money has been put. When did we last sell a player for big money and use the money to buy quality players? Howard Kendall did a good job with the Nathan Blake money, as the cash from that deal freed up cash to sign a number of useful players, but since then I'm struggling...

the only time you can get to buy better players than what you have now is if you stay in the prem , and get that sort of income , or its sellingone good one to get 2 in or more you hope will become better

its not something solely unique to us

even our porcine neighbours , have had to let any half decent players go, for what best money they could and brought in several of a lesser quality , Sergui Bus is no Antonio
Its just how it is for the majority of clubs

even Liverpool now they arent european regulars cant hold on to their best players , different level same principle

 

[Bladesway]

,

the only time you can get to buy better players than what you have now is if you stay in the prem , and get that sort of income , or its sellingone good one to get 2 in or more you hope will become better

its not something solely unique to us

even our porcine neighbours , have had to let any half decent players go, for what best money they could and brought in several of a lesser quality , Sergui Bus is no Antonio
Its just how it is for the majority of clubs

even Liverpool now they arent european regulars cant hold on to their best players , different level same principle

Don't agree, it is possible to increase your share of good players without losing the ones you have. We only have three of note. Slap hands off them (2 of them only joined 6 months ago) and you invest with your transfer budget in better players. It isn't actually that hard to do so long as you don't have the sand man coming along behind and undermining what you are doing like McCabe did with Blackwell or Wilson.

Our current board seems to have the balance right and of course you have to tip your eye towards balancing the books, but with our relevant wealth we should be able to keep players like the ones mentioned. None are household names and being hunted down by Chelsea and Arsenal. We are talking the likes of Rotherham for gods sake.

 

[blade too long]

,


Don't agree, it is possible to increase your share of good players without losing the ones you have. We only have three of note. Slap hands off them (2 of them only joined 6 months ago) and you invest with your transfer budget in better players. It isn't actually that hard to do so long as you don't have the sand man coming along behind and undermining what you are doing like McCabe did with Blackwell or Wilson.

Our current board seems to have the balance right and of course you have to tip your eye towards balancing the books, but with our relevant wealth we should be able to keep players like the ones mentioned. None are household names and being hunted down by Chelsea and Arsenal. We are talking the likes of Rotherham for gods sake.

depends oin what fee it generates , if a puny club like rotherham want to risk 3 million say on murphy , its a calculated gamble, we would accept it as getting 3m for him is commercial sense
although we get bigger gates they are generating more tv money and could stretch to one gamble
but as we found out with brayford 1.5 million does,nt stop injuries taking players out, just like when we bought Ebrell all those years ago
you need the luck of not losing your prize assetts, once again we are cursed with losing key players at vital moments we were 1-0 up and they didnt look like scoring till he went off , thats a defender