Lessons from History

[super_pig]

May I say (if I was one you were referring to in the first line) all I said with regards to selling players was two things:

(1) I'd sell Murphy for £5m
(2) I'd sell Done for £2.5m

That is all I said. Can't see much harm in that.

problem is we'll buy
1. shit player A 1m and
2. shit player B 0.5 million to replace them. .it is a downward spiral. if you keep replacing players with slightly not as good ones then you will gradually go down the table

 

[BushBlade]

Morgan's injury was a factor.

Collins and Doyle hardly missed a game. Adams signed them both in January. Neither were good enough for that division.

We were relegated because years of selling our best players and replacing them with crap came home to roost.

Amazingly, only two years of selling our best players. After KM put his house on Sad Ken you'd think the penny might have dropped regarding managers but he then thought he'd put the chubby goalie in charge of his pension plan.

Has any manager in history pissed away so much money on signings that didn't suit how he wanted to play, signings who were absolutely shit, loans of players who were shitter than shit, signings who were never fit enough to play for us and contracts for existing players way above market value?

What other manager holds mass trials for our of contract players in the summer? I heard him on the radio when he was at Bury. They trialled hundreds of players and managed to find one. KB was getting all excited saying he reminded him of Kevin Francis. He then said, it's amazing, a lot of these european players don't get paid. Yes, Kev, they're amateurs, most countries don't have our strength in depth so a third division Dutch club is about the same level as Hallam FC.

 

[Swanseablade]

Let's be honest here, successive boards of Sheffield United couldn't run a whelk stall

You're never alone with a whelk

 

[BushBlade]

You're never alone with a whelk

Problem is, we sell all the good whelks and replace them with whelks of lesser quality.

 

[Woodwardfan]

The generalisation that our problems are caused by selling our best players is partly true. However the fact that only a couple of regimes we have had over the decades know how to spend money well is the constant and bigger factor IMO. We produce some good youngsters but we don't sign many good value players. We have to put it that way "good value players" because we have rarely spent proper money. Nevertheless if we had put the right manager in place the amounts of money we have spent over many years would have been enough. Bassett did well, Harris did well and even Warnock did well in his own way. It can be done but in truth we need much more than a Warnock, we need someone as good as the other two and nothing less, indeed we need a fair bit more I'm afraid. Robson and Kendall blew Kings' Ransomes compared to our other managers and they blew it too.

Adkins has the opportunity to change the history of the club, but he has to emulate his feats at Southampton.

 

[bladesmanluke]

why does it stop us getting promotion before weve kicked a ball I said not one of our current squad is irreplaceable , my argument is Murphys valuye is at best 1.5 miññion if someones daft enough to pay 3 we take it and get a better player for the going rate , say billy sharp for 1. 2 m but you go down your route of being totally uinprofessional

Because it's stopped us getting promoted every season for the last 7 where every summer we've sold our best player and many many times before that. No matter what money we receive we simply have not replaced sold talent. With Harry Maguire at the back last season Clough wouldn't have fell out with Butler and Collins and we would have been promoted.

Fine, take £3m. I guarantee you no matter how much of that we spend you will not find a better left winger to replace Murph while we are in league one

 

[Bladesway]

Because it's stopped us getting promoted every season for the last 7 where every summer we've sold our best player and many many times before that. No matter what money we receive we simply have not replaced sold talent. With Harry Maguire at the back last season Clough wouldn't have fell out with Butler and Collins and we would have been promoted.

Fine, take £3m. I guarantee you no matter how much of that we spend you will not find a better left winger to replace Murph while we are in league one

I'd give Adkins a bit more credit than you just have but I agree with your point.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Lessons we can learn from history are: 1. getting long term contracts signed 2. insisting that sell-on clauses are included.

Maguire was only on contract for another year to mid-2015 and as soon as Premiership interest was expressed he knew he was in a "different league". I recall he was on £4k a week with us and went onto £14k p.w. at Hull. With the best will in the world nobody can expect the lad not to insist on going or the club to insist on him staying when the £2.5m fee would have been zero by the end of the season. If indeed his absence was the reason we didn't get promoted then that is false economy, but seriously, we should have replaced him and the fact we didn't remains Clough's biggest failing and so unnecessary, negligent in fact.

Murphy committed to a new contract until 2017 only last January. whoever was responsible, be it Clough and/or Brannagan, or Phipps or McCabe, then it was a masterstroke. It changes the bargaining power we have. The player can still agitate to move away and that happens the player usually gets his way but the fee is better value. As you say Leeds are not Arsenal and maybe Murphy will hope for a much better club, though I sense Leeds have big cash now. As for the Sharp factor, I believe we can get him without any barter if we bide our time. Personally I'm not sure Murphy is big on personal confidence. He struggled with us for long enough and might gain comfort from being at a club where the fans appreciate him at last. I think he probably values his deal at Bramall Lane and also values all his Scottish mates here.

Chris Woods, striker from Leicester to Leeds today, that's a serious signing for a Championship club. Sharp will likely be available.

 

[blade too long]

Because it's stopped us getting promoted every season for the last 7 where every summer we've sold our best player and many many times before that. No matter what money we receive we simply have not replaced sold talent. With Harry Maguire at the back last season Clough wouldn't have fell out with Butler and Collins and we would have been promoted.

Fine, take £3m. I guarantee you no matter how much of that we spend you will not find a better left winger to replace Murph while we are in league one

every summer weve sold our best players ?
hate to point it out but you dont get any money for your worst players
any one would think weve sold some fabulous players the way you go on , but we havent weve sold players that havent got us anywhere
we have sold players that were part of why we failed
Collins has been here for all 4 failures, we need better obviously

 

[I should coco]

still think we sacked Blackwell at the wrong time , the draw at cardiff showed he had a plan
to sack someone on 1 defeat , to a team who eventually went up was crazy

But that really was one of the top ten worst games I've ever seen. I know all the muppets ring 'Praise or Grumble' and say that everytime we don't win, but I was there for Walsall 81, Oldham 88 and Port Vale 99 and this game was up there with them. We were three nil down at half time and QPR would have got double figures if they hadn't eased off and sat back for the second half.

Blackwell was out of his depth but then who was to know our new wonder manager would want to bugger off so soon?

 

[Woodwardfan]

Lesson No.1 from history - Sign good players.

I came across Stephen McGinn's name and had a check what he's doing now. Sorry to see he's out of the game.

That got me thinking about David Weir's other signings which were:

Sean McGinty - now at non-league Aldershot
Fabian Bandy - out of the game
Jasper Johns - out of the game
Lyle Taylor - AFC Wimbledon
Florent Cuvelier and Jose Baxter
Conor Coady- Wolves
Ryan Hall- Luton
Simon Lappin - St. Johnstone
Marlon King - in prison.
Harry Bunn - Huddersfield.

It's often said that a manager's success is determined by the quality of his signings.

Weir had a much reduced budget and was with us for just 4 months. I described his job as "Mission Impossible" at the time but his initial batch of signings must have deflated squad morale and then Kevin McDonald left. Regardless of limited funding the above signings are a sorry bunch; some are out of the game and none can be said to have improved their careers, but maybe Coady will kick on now he's at Wolves. Maybe Baxter will come out of his watershed to flourish and we all have our fingers crossed for Cuvelier who must be so despondent.

Adkins has the opportunity to sign quality above quantity and he has made a good start.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Lesson No.1 from history - Sign good players.

I came across Stephen McGinn's name and had a check what he's doing now. Sorry to see he's out of the game.

That got me thinking about David Weir's other signings which were:

Sean McGinty - now at non-league Aldershot
Fabian Bandy - out of the game
Jasper Johns - out of the game
Lyle Taylor - AFC Wimbledon
Florent Cuvelier and Jose Baxter
Conor Coady- Wolves
Ryan Hall- Luton
Simon Lappin - St. Johnstone
Marlon King - in prison.
Harry Bunn - Huddersfield.

It's often said that a manager's success is determined by the quality of his signings.

Weir had a much reduced budget and was with us for just 4 months. I described his job as "Mission Impossible" at the time but his initial batch of signings must have deflated squad morale and then Kevin McDonald left. Regardless of limited funding the above signings are a sorry bunch; some are out of the game and none can be said to have improved their careers, but maybe Coady will kick on now he's at Wolves. Maybe Baxter will come out of his watershed to flourish and we all have our fingers crossed for Cuvelier who must be so despondent.

Adkins has the opportunity to sign quality above quantity and he has made a good start.

Interesting post WWF. Of course you're correct, the intent should always be to sign good or better players than we already have. It might be that a manager genuinely considers player A, who he's about to sign, is a better player than those he already has in this position. Or maybe it's considered worth a punt to sign a player who will offer a steady level of performance, thus a squad player.

I too share your hope that Cuvelier will eventually come good, that is if it's not before it's decided that he's surplus to requirements. Such is the fate of players throughout the professional ranks I'm afraid. Let's hope for Flo's sake that it's not long before he shows the aggression and drive that promised so much.