Jim Phipps interview - interesting stuff

[alcoblade]

It's fair question but we've a near-Premiership infrastructure to support in the lower leagues. As others said, the accounts will show where the money goes, but I've not doubt we'll be paying a premium for players which other clubs at this level don't.

Your first thought is of the academy, but without a significant, locally-fed youth structure, SUFC wouldn't be as integral to its community as it is. Can we have a worthwhile youth system without the academy status?

Either way, get promoted and there's less to worry about.

From my perspective " without a significant, locally-fed youth structure, SUFC wouldn't be as integral to its community as it is." is really fluff, isn't it?

Football can be overcomplicated. It's about winning and not much more. My opinion on the academy it that is raises unrealistic expectations about what can be done - and you have to develop what comes through, even if they aren't in the positions you need. And most importantly, I think it costs a fortune to run, and is bleeding us dry. I doubt very much that all the transfer fees received have nearly covered the costs. And the benefits are outweighed by lots of pissed off fans when they are sold.

If you strip away the academy, what's the premiership infrastructure that we have to maintain? Just a bigger lump of concrete, surely? And one that will generate more cash that its' rivals.

UTB

 

[Worksop II]

A set of accounts showing not having to pay off one of McCabes appointments would be a win

 

[JohnDenver]

From my perspective " without a significant, locally-fed youth structure, SUFC wouldn't be as integral to its community as it is." is really fluff, isn't it?

Not to me it isn't, but maybe I'm in the minority. There has to be something more to a club than a bunch of hired professionals who happen to play in S2. Previous chairmen's dream of team of local lads is fanciful, but having a contingent is a very good thing. As is giving thousands of local kids a path for playing for their club.

As for the finances... However daft our regimes have been, it's hard to imagine they wouldn't have cut the academy expenditure already if they had an inkling it would save their pennies.

 

[alcoblade]

All the info on income will be the accounts. Worth a look at the appropriate time.

I think fewer than half the of the L1 clubs paid a transfer fee, though I could be wrong.

Are the accounts ever that clear though?

They are analysed on here time and again by accountants, and there's always room for interpretation.

They certainly won't say "the academy cost £2.5M a year to run", or anything so clear

 

[alcoblade]

Not to me it isn't, but maybe I'm in the minority. There has to be something more to a club than a bunch of hired professionals who happen to play in S2. Previous chairmen's dream of team of local lads is fanciful, but having a contingent is a very good thing. As is giving thousands of local kids a path for playing for their club.

As for the finances... However daft our regimes have been, it's hard to imagine they wouldn't have cut the academy expenditure already if they had an inkling it would save their pennies.

But in the end, that's all we are now. With a few wannabe youngsters who will and have dropped us like a stone the minute a better option comes up.

I bet that 95% of the fan base would say it's important. But I can almost guarantee that is we win our next 20 games on the bounce, attendances will go up. If we focussed on "connecting with the community", it will make absolutely fuck all difference to anything tangible.

I'd say we've made a lot of effort in this area over the last however many years, as we've fallen form the premier league to the third division, watched by 12,000 less fans who somehow now "can't afford it." And one thing’s for sure, they are less connected with the club now than they were then

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[Darren]

But in the end, that's all we are now. With a few wannabe youngsters who will and have dropped us like a stone the minute a better option comes up.

I bet that 95% of the fan base would say it's important. But I can almost guarantee that is we win our next 20 games on the bounce, attendances will go up. If we focussed on "connecting with the community", it will make absolutely fuck all difference to anything tangible.

I'd say we've made a lot of effort in this area over the last however many years, as we've fallen form the premier league to the third division, watched by 12,000 less fans who somehow now "can't afford it." And one thing’s for sure, they are less connected with the club now than they were then

UTB

But then what is it that makes SUFC different to you to, say Tesco (or whichever supermarket you shop at)?

Both Tesco and SUFC employ people to provide you with a particular service for which you pay money, but I don't think you would get upset if Tesco's share price plummets (unless you are a shareholder) in the same way you would if United get relegated.

It's a genuine question by the way.

 

[alcoblade]

But then what is it that makes SUFC different to you to, say Tesco (or whichever supermarket you shop at)?

Both Tesco and SUFC employ people to provide you with a particular service for which you pay money, but I don't think you would get upset if Tesco's share price plummets (unless you are a shareholder) in the same way you would if United get relegated.

It's a genuine question by the way.

It's the emotional attachment. It's an incredible bond in football - and it makes losing unbearable for some.

You unemotionally Judge Tesco on price, value, service, availability etc.

If you polled people about what made football important, they would bloat out a list including fluff like "being part of the community", but in the end the stats are clear. People vote with their feet. They turn up and actually support winning teams, and don't support losing ones, however connected with the community they are.

If you strip away the income, it's not clear to me that (for example), the Kyle X 2 affair did any good for us as a club. I think it was damaging actually, costing us trust. In what way did them coming from our community do us any good? They fucked off at the first opportunity


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[Darren]

It's the emotional attachment. It's an incredible bond in football - and it makes losing unbearable for some.

You unemotionally Judge Tesco on price, value, service, availability etc.

If you polled people about what made football important, they would bloat out a list including fluff like "being part of the community", but in the end the stats are clear. People vote with their feet. They turn up and actually support winning teams, and don't support losing ones, however connected with the community they are.

If you strip away the income, it's not clear to me that (for example), the Kyle X 2 affair did any good for us as a club. I think it was damaging actually, costing us trust. In what way did them coming from our community do us any good? They fucked off at the first opportunity


UTB

But my point is that you feel at attachment to something that is not just 11 blokes being paid to try to win football matches. It's something more nebulous than that isn't it? Something to do with community perhaps?

People don;t vote with their feet in football in the same way that they do with supermarkets. Not many people think "this is shit" when watching United and decide to go and watch Wednesday instead....

 

[judge]

Not claiming to be in the know at all Justin was widely reported in the media and by Jim Phipps at the time that we had enquired about him and been told a valuation that we thought was too high.

Im just saying i think it was all paper talk
If liverpool really valued him at 1.5m then huddersfields chief exec must drive a hard bargain

I never heard from.jim phipps or anyone else at the club that we enquired for him and find it hard to believe liverpool would want 4 times the price off us they accepted off huddersfield

 

[alcoblade]

But my point is that you feel at attachment to something that is not just 11 blokes being paid to try to win football matches. It's something more nebulous than that isn't it? Something to do with community perhaps?

People don;t vote with their feet in football in the same way that they do with supermarkets. Not many people think "this is shit" when watching United and decide to go and watch Wednesday instead....

But despite our best efforts to connect with the community, 12,000 less people turn up now than 8 years ago.

People will say it's important, just like so many say they can't afford to go now. But you can bet your life the finances of the households of Sheffield will improve enormously when we eventually return to the premiership.


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[sitwell]

Im just saying i think it was all paper talk
If liverpool really valued him at 1.5m then huddersfields chief exec must drive a hard bargain

I never heard from.jim phipps or anyone else at the club that we enquired for him and find it hard to believe liverpool would want 4 times the price off us they accepted off huddersfield

I think Clough probably thought Wallace will be a better proposition than Coady ,I agree from what I have seen of him. Coady was OK but he has been turned into some kind of genius which wasn't. How is he doing at Huddersfield btw ,anyone been following him ?

 

[judge]

I think Clough probably thought Wallace will be a better proposition than Coady ,I agree from what I have seen of him. Coady was OK but he has been turned into some kind of genius which wasn't. How is he doing at Huddersfield btw ,anyone been following him ?

Bit harsh , i havent seen anyone say anything of the sort
He was their player of the month in his first month not sure after that

 

[sitwell]

Was that the month their manager was sacked ? Do we have players of the month ?
Im not saying hes not a good player but Wallace for nowt looks good at the side of Coady for a big wedge.

 

[alcoblade]

I think it's clear that Wallace's start out does Coady's for us. Too early to judge, and the fitness angle is a concern.

Coady improved steadily over the season and was very good come the end, but incredibly average at the start.

UTB

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Im just saying i think it was all paper talk
If liverpool really valued him at 1.5m then huddersfields chief exec must drive a hard bargain

I never heard from.jim phipps or anyone else at the club that we enquired for him and find it hard to believe liverpool would want 4 times the price off us they accepted off huddersfield

If nobody was prepared to meet their asking price and they were keen to move on, then of course the price would change. Difference here is all about timing. I'm sure if the fee was 400k at the start of the summer when Clough said we were enquiring, we'd have taken it. From what he said in radio interviews at the time ("has to be the right deal for the club" etc), we weren't prepared to meet whatever they were asking (likely much more than 400k), weren't prepared to wait to see if Liverpool would relent when nobody met that price, and went and signed other targets. At the point Huddersfield signed Coady, our situation was completely different - we were full to the brim with central-midfielders, and I doubt we'll sign any more till next season. I really don't understand why this is still something that generates much talk - it all looks quite straightforward.

 

[sheffielder]

I think Clough probably thought Wallace will be a better proposition than Coady ,I agree from what I have seen of him. Coady was OK but he has been turned into some kind of genius which wasn't. How is he doing at Huddersfield btw ,anyone been following him ?

Watching Basham shone a light on what a miss not signing Coady was. We need Wallace to stay fit because he is gravy

 

[judge]

If nobody was prepared to meet their asking price and they were keen to move on, then of course the price would change. Difference here is all about timing. I'm sure if the fee was 400k at the start of the summer when Clough said we were enquiring, we'd have taken it. From what he said in radio interviews at the time ("has to be the right deal for the club" etc), we weren't prepared to meet whatever they were asking (likely much more than 400k), weren't prepared to wait to see if Liverpool would relent when nobody met that price, and went and signed other targets. At the point Huddersfield signed Coady, our situation was completely different - we were full to the brim with central-midfielders, and I doubt we'll sign any more till next season. I really don't understand why this is still something that generates much talk - it all looks quite straightforward.

Thats all supposition mate
You really believe that liverpool wanted one and a half million pounds for him but sold him for 375 thousand ?

And again ive never seen clough ,phipps the prince or selathin bakhi categorically state we were in for him so everything you have said is cobbled together from the star

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Thats all supposition mate
You really believe that liverpool wanted one and a half million pounds for him but sold him for 375 thousand ?

And again ive never seen clough ,phipps the prince or selathin bakhi categorically state we were in for him so everything you have said is cobbled together from the star

Where did I say £1.5m? I said a fee considerably more than what we'd have been willing to pay. That might have been 750k for all I know - whatever it was, clearly Brannigan/Clough determined it was much higher than Coady's worth.

While I can be arsed to do a summary of an interview yesterday, I can't really be arsed to go back and do the same for an interview Clough did at the start of the summer. But what I said (including the quote) came from what I remember of those interviews Clough gave that I listened to - not The Star.

 

[blade too long]

A good interview but there's one thing I don't get. How does a debt free Sheffield United with 19000 fans turning up regularly need millions of investment just to pay its bills in the third division?

It's time they seriously looked at our cost base. How much does the academy cost to run? Is it worth it?

UTB

in a word wages

 

[alcoblade]

in a word wages

We're still overpaying for the quality on show then.

UTB

 

[blade too long]

as are 23 other league one clubs
24 championship teams
as well
and most of the prem

 

[alcoblade]

as are 23 other league one clubs
24 championship teams
as well
and most of the prem

With about 4x the income of most of our rivals, something doesn't stack up there.

Have Rochdale, Gillingham and Swindon had game changing investment too?

UTB

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

All the info on income will be the accounts. Worth a look at the appropriate time.

I think fewer than half the of the L1 clubs paid a transfer fee, though I could be wrong.

Given we have a 30,000+ Capacity ground, alongside training facilities which are comparable to most sides in the Championship if not slightly higher, I think we can see where some of that money goes. Does last years financial reports give a figure to that?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Watching Basham shone a light on what a miss not signing Coady was. We need Wallace to stay fit because he is gravy

What about Reed or Dimao where would they get any games with Wallace and Coady playing?

 

[BeatleBlade]

I think we are in safe hands with the Prince and Phipps. With the ongoing farces at Leeds, Hull and most notably Cardiff I am relieved that we have owners who actually know what is best for the club. I.e. giving a sensible manager that knows what he is doing more control.

 

[alcoblade]

Given we have a 30,000+ Capacity ground, alongside training facilities which are comparable to most sides in the Championship if not slightly higher, I think we can see where some of that money goes. Does last years financial reports give a figure to that?

We already have the ground and facilities Bob. Surely its' upkeep isn't that expensive?

And given that wages, always the bulk of a football club's cost, are limited to a % of turnover, it still leaves me questioning the overall costs of the club and the academy - or if they're spinning the "millions" that have to be invested just to make us be able to fund a third division squad on 19,000 gates, following on from a money spinning cup run.


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[sheffielder]

What about Reed or Dimao where would they get any games with Wallace and Coady playing?

Then don't sign Basham who is doing the same thing as what your'e saying Coady would do.

 

[alcoblade]

I think we are in safe hands with the Prince and Phipps. With the ongoing farces at Leeds, Hull and most notably Cardiff I am relieved that we have owners who actually know what is best for the club. I.e. giving a sensible manager that knows what he is doing more control.

Give me the ongoing farce of premiership Hull anyday.

It's too early, for me, to judge our new owners. They clearly have their own pockets at heart, as the Prince was honest enough to admit. Obviously, our success is their profit. But whilst ever a club of our size remains in the 3rd division, nothing can be classed as success.

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[Flatulent_Bob]

Then don't sign Basham who is doing the same thing as what your'e saying Coady would do.

I don't think Basham will block their path as I don't see them as similar players.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

We already have the ground and facilities Bob. Surely its' upkeep isn't that expensive?
UTB

I reckon it might be you know.
Massive building with significant bills and running costs, aprox half full most weeks.