Incoming? Jack Clarke

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Carlton Blade said:
Moose was already in the UK. Plus, we got about 10 good games out of him
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Doesn't really make him any less Black or French though.
And yeah, it was a short lived patch, but even if he plays until he's 40 those 10 will be the best of his career.

I dont really get the criticism (well I do, people want to put a label on you, extra points if its a negative one) Wilder doesn't trust his scouts. He wouldn't mind a European, African or Scandinavian player, but he either doesn't know how their skills will translate to our game or he doesn't trust our scouts to. Thats why any foreigner players we have signed, have usually already been tested at this level.

He's stubborn. The scouts are local. And he's one of our most successful managers of all time because of it. How people throw around nasty slurs because of that is beyond me.
 
EddieColquhoun said:
According to Balham he [Berge] played "barely, if at all".
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I also clearly stated that Berge is the exception and “probably why Wilder likes Scandinavians”.

You’re really not helping yourself. Can we agree that Berge is the only foreign player to come even remotely close to being a first pick at United under Wilder?

FTPE said:
I love how Australian and American are no longer classed as foreign.
I think people are just wanting to say Black players.
Wilder signed and mollycoddled Lys Mousset. He even managed to get the best out of him, but Chris won't get any credit.
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In the context of culture, Australia and America aren’t really foreign, are they?

Moose is definitely one who understands the culture though. Boozing and kebabs.

EddieColquhoun said:
With no sense of irony, the same poster accused Wilder of being xenophobic.
Hoppe is not traditionally an English surname.
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Are you a parody?

Wilder is xenophobic. He’s said as much in his press conferences. He doesn’t like players from outside England (excepting Scandinavia at a push) because they don’t understand his culture.

This is like trying to reason with my cat.
 
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FTPE said:
Doesn't really make him any less Black or French though.
And yeah, it was a short lived patch, but even if he plays until he's 40 those 10 will be the best of his career.

I dont really get the criticism (well I do, people want to put a label on you, extra points if its a negative one) Wilder doesn't trust his scouts. He wouldn't mind a European, African or Scandinavian player, but he either doesn't know how their skills will translate to our game or he doesn't trust our scouts to. Thats why any foreigner players we have signed, have usually already been tested at this level.

He's stubborn. The scouts are local. And he's one of our most successful managers of all time because of it. How people throw around nasty slurs because of that is beyond me.
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Why are you talking about black players or 'slurs' with me? I've mentioned neither.

I've said, repeatedly that the club is making it harder to find value than it needs to be, primarily because the manager insists that huge parts of the global population don't fit with the culture of Sheffield United.
 
EddieColquhoun said:
Mousset
Anel
Souza
Hamer
Riedewald
Even Gbric at first 😆
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Mousset - signed from Bournemouth
Ahmedhodzić - signed by Heckingbottom
Vini Souza - signed by Heckingbottom
Hamer - signed by Heckingbottom
Riedewald - spent 7 years at Palace
Grbic - played 9 matches for us

Give it up. I’m sure you’re not stupid but your line of argument is indefensible.
 
Balham said:
Can we agree that Berge is the only foreign player to come even remotely close to being a first pick at United under Wilder?
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Balham said:
Mousset - signed from Bournemouth
Ahmedhodzić - signed by Heckingbottom
Vini Souza - signed by Heckingbottom
Hamer - signed by Heckingbottom
Riedewald - spent 7 years at Palace
Grbic - played 9 matches for us

Give it up. I’m sure you’re not stupid but your line of argument is indefensible.
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I think you need to re-read your own question.
 
Balham said:
In the context of culture, Australia and America aren’t really foreign, are they?
Wilder is xenophobic. He’s said as much in his press conferences. He doesn’t like players from outside England (excepting Scandinavia at a push)
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It's clear what you're trying to insinuate.
Why don't you just say it.
 
Carlton Blade said:
Why are you talking about black players or 'slurs' with me? I've mentioned neither.

I've said, repeatedly that the club is making it harder to find value than it needs to be, primarily because the manager insists that huge parts of the global population don't fit with the culture of Sheffield United.
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Sorry, that wasnt aimed at you, I was reading the whole thread and included my whole thoughts it in my reply.
I don't think its wrong to say that football in large parts of the world wouldn't translate to the Championship. Especially the 2nd and 3rd tiers of these countries, where we would be ahopping. He obviously thinks its important to speak the language perfectly as well.
 
FTPE said:
Sorry, that wasnt aimed at you, I was reading the whole thread and included my whole thoughts it in my reply.
I don't think its wrong to say that football in large parts of the world wouldn't translate to the Championship. Especially the 2nd and 3rd tiers of these countries, where we would be ahopping. He obviously thinks its important to speak the language perfectly as well.
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The question becomes, what's more important? His comfort with the players 'culture' or the players ability? When we were best, we were finding players from L1 and L2 who'd dropped down the leagues and rebuilt. Athletic, tactically disciplined, mature. Personally, I think stating that foreigners don't have those traits because they don't have English as a first language is incorrect. Benelux, Scandinavia, Germany, Switzerland, Eastern Europe. All these places have English as a strong second language.

I can accept being wary of Southern Europe and players who may struggle to settle because of the huge lifestyle change. The rest of Europe being ruled out is frankly ridiculous.
 
FTPE said:
Sorry, that wasnt aimed at you, I was reading the whole thread and included my whole thoughts it in my reply.
I don't think its wrong to say that football in large parts of the world wouldn't translate to the Championship. Especially the 2nd and 3rd tiers of these countries, where we would be ahopping. He obviously thinks its important to speak the language perfectly as well.
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Have you tried to listen to and understand a Wilder press conference?
 



Wilder seems to cover up mistakes he has made yet still tries not to accept responsibility
 
EddieColquhoun said:
In his recent interview Wilder said we were scouting abroad.
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He also said "I believe in British players and British-based players. They understand the culture, the division and what's required."

I don't think the Championship is so fundamentally different from other leagues so as to require a player already here to play well in it.
 
Carlton Blade said:
He also said "I believe in British players and British-based players. They understand the culture, the division and what's required."

I don't think the Championship is so fundamentally different from other leagues so as to require a player already here to play well in it.
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He didn't say he was ruling out anywhere.
 
Carlton Blade said:
The question becomes, what's more important? His comfort with the players 'culture' or the players ability? When we were best, we were finding players from L1 and L2 who'd dropped down the leagues and rebuilt. Athletic, tactically disciplined, mature. Personally, I think stating that foreigners don't have those traits because they don't have English as a first language is incorrect. Benelux, Scandinavia, Germany, Switzerland, Eastern Europe. All these places have English as a strong second language.

I can accept being wary of Southern Europe and players who may struggle to settle because of the huge lifestyle change. The rest of Europe being ruled out is frankly ridiculous.
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I agree, Wilder is talking absolute bollocks.

We can hark back to Brentford again who have shown the blueprint of how to do business, from being a tinpot lower league side akin to Rotherham or Doncaster to getting to the Premier League and, most importantly, staying there. All but one of their coaching staff are from the British Isles with the exception of the goalkeeping coaches, one is Spanish and one is Finnish.

If you go down their squad, they are quite literally from all four corners of the world - Iceland, USA, Brazil, Korea, Ukraine, Denmark, Germany, Portugal, Mali, Burkina Faso ffs.

Dean Smith was in charge at Brentford 10 years ago when they had a team with various players from all over Europe. He's a guy of a similar vintage to Wilder but seemingly managed to guide a culture that included foreign players and allowed them to prosper.
 
We all know he would rather sign Billy Sharp, Chris Basham and Jack O’Connell on repeat and so would we all, they were the best set of players we’ve had in my lifetime. It was also a real one off, unlikely to ever happen again and goes against the grain for what every other club is doing in the top couple of divisions.

71% of players starting in the premier league aren’t British.

British born premier league players command a roughly 40% fee premium and 25% wage premium.

Signing a British based premier league player costs an average of £39.4 million and their foreign based counterparts cost an average of £20.2 million.

Clubs around us are putting their resources into establishing overseas scoring networks and buying into (proper / not James Bord) Ai scouting. We are going to end up years and years behind. Look at the likes of Swansea. Up until recently they were pretty much a free 4-0 hole victory and now they’re top of the table since investing in their AI methods.
 
Silent Blade said:
You mean Jamestown?

www.bbc.co.uk

Swansea City news: Championship club announce deal with data specialists Jamestown Analytics

Swansea City news: Championship club announce deal with data specialists Jamestown Analytics
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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Jamestown (and its predecessors) has some track record. Brighton: L1 to Europe. Hearts: mid-table to 2nd (robbed of the title by the Scottish officials). USG: Belgian 2nd division to top flight champions and cup winner. Como: Serie C to the Champions League (albeit bankrolled by Italian football's richest owners).

Meanwhile, we go for the Lidl own brand version and get BordAI which recommends, funnily enough, players from clubs which James Bord has a stake in.
 
Analytics aren't everything. But they are a hugely useful tool when applied properly. United refuse to apply them properly and sneer at those who do
 
Carlton Blade said:
Analytics aren't everything. But they are a hugely useful tool when applied properly. United refuse to apply them properly and sneer at those who do
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It has to be a combination doesn’t it.

AI and analytics to identify possible targets
Send the scouts out to watch them and report
Director of football to sign off

Not a James Bord load up your latest championship manager save game and go ip dip do on a few players with potential stats and get the cheque book out.
 
Carlton Blade said:
The question becomes, what's more important? His comfort with the players 'culture' or the players ability? When we were best, we were finding players from L1 and L2 who'd dropped down the leagues and rebuilt. Athletic, tactically disciplined, mature. Personally, I think stating that foreigners don't have those traits because they don't have English as a first language is incorrect. Benelux, Scandinavia, Germany, Switzerland, Eastern Europe. All these places have English as a strong second language.

I can accept being wary of Southern Europe and players who may struggle to settle because of the huge lifestyle change. The rest of Europe being ruled out is frankly ridiculous.
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I do think its more of what level does doing well in Belgium's 2nd tier translate to over here. Yeah you can but from the Danish and Swedish top leagues and chances are they'll be Prem/Champ level but when youre shopping in the second and third division of some of these countries.. what's to say they're any better than the players doing well in your under 21s.
Again that comes down to the quality of your scouts and the trust you have in them. If you hire 3 scouts that are cut from the same mould as you they're going to shop in the same places.

I think the last time Chris put trust in a signing that was recommended from a none scout, we ended up with Gribic. He came from a monster club, but apparently even monster clubs dont always have the best second string players. Its a gamble, and United very seldom have money to gamble with.
 
FTPE said:
I do think its more of what level does doing well in Belgium's 2nd tier translate to over here. Yeah you can but from the Danish and Swedish top leagues and chances are they'll be Prem/Champ level but when youre shopping in the second and third division of some of these countries.. what's to say they're any better than the players doing well in your under 21s.
Again that comes down to the quality of your scouts and the trust you have in them. If you hire 3 scouts that are cut from the same mould as you they're going to shop in the same places.

I think the last time Chris put trust in a signing that was recommended from a none scout, we ended up with Gribic. He came from a monster club, but apparently even monster clubs dont always have the best second string players. Its a gamble, and United very seldom have money to gamble with.
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Fair points. But then we go back to £10m for Cannon when it was clear that he wasn't going to provide anything like that kind of value. But the comfort level with 'culture' outweighed the talent issues.

When you don't have endless resources, blacking out a whole swathe of the list of available targets before you even investigate them seems to be making things much harder than they need to be
 
I'm struggling to understand why people are tying themselves up in knots over this.

Wilder has said repeatedly that he thinks our recruitment strategy should be focused on British-based players, plus Scandinavians. He's explained this by saying those kind of players fit the club's culture, are hard-working, and understand the demands of the Championship.

Even if he hadn't been so open about his views recently, his time with us has shown that he prefers to sign British-based players. Under Wilder, we have recruited from overseas less than most (perhaps all) other clubs of our size and stature.

I don't care what Wilder's personal views are. I don't think it's helpful to speculate on whether he's "xenophobic" or whatever. I do think he's clearly most comfortable building a team out of certain types of players, and I believe that approach is likely to prevent us achieving the things I want us to achieve.
 



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