Neil Collins.

[sheffielder]

I'm trying to understand the correlation between 'improving that much' and being made captain??

The club is at it's lowest point since 1979 now are in our 4th season in this division. The two players who have played in all 4 seasons and the relegation to this divison are Doyle and Collins, who at best are mediocre even for this division. I agree Doyle has improved, however I don't think Collins 'has improved that much' that he is guaranteed to be in the team, never mind being considered for captain. He is in the team because we tried to replace him on the cheap and it didn't work, or has he come back as some world beater I missed?

Also with Doyle, he started the season without him and the fact he tried to replace him on the cheap means that he is back in. Not exactly endorsements from the man everyone trusts.

Nothing personal against you Michael, however these 2 players are the constant of a shit 5 years, yet because we shopped at Aldi over the summer they are considered god like.

 

[LSF]

The club is at it's lowest point since 1979 now are in our 4th season in this division. The two players who have played in all 4 seasons and the relegation to this divison are Doyle and Collins, who at best are mediocre even for this division. I agree Doyle has improved, however I don't think Collins 'has improved that much' that he is guaranteed to be in the team, never mind being considered for captain. He is in the team because we tried to replace him on the cheap and it didn't work, or has he come back as some world beater I missed?

Also with Doyle, he started the season without him and the fact he tried to replace him on the cheap means that he is back in. Not exactly endorsements from the man everyone trusts.

Nothing personal against you Michael, however these 2 players are the constant of a shit 5 years, yet because we shopped at Aldi over the summer they are considered god like.

I'll answer your final assertion first. I don't think anyone considers them 'god like', they are two journeymen pros earning their last bit of corn in the lower reaches and currently playing well enough to hold down their respective shirts.
This replacing on the cheap you are stating, none of us know who Cloughs summer signings were replacing if at all they were.
Butler was brought in because we now know that SUFC were resigned to losing Maguire, not to 'replace' Collins.
This on the cheap bollocks just doesn't wash mate.
Players are signed in close season to build a squad rather than a 1st XI, the fact he started without Doyle (or me as you hilariously keep repeating) and Collins, doesn't mean he'd jettisoned them. Its a bloody long season and 20 or more players will all play a part.
Who is good and who is shit is purely subjective on fans part, and whilst its fun to express opinions, I prefer to think the manager (whoever he is) knows them far better than me, so I rarely concern myself with that (except to defend the maligned individuals of which there have been many over the years).

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Apologies Fulwood. If you see that after watching the young lad for one hour then he is exceptional. Nothing wrong with that.

Apologies accepted, although in this case no real reason to.
In terms of captain, we have very few players who could be and in the present squad, Doyle is, Wallace has been and Butler has been. Not sure we have any one person, senior or not who stands out, so Wallace was a choice by default as well as he seems to be a kind of "conductor" when playing which leads me to think he could captain us, and soon - especially if Doyle becomes unfit, unwanted or dropped. Ronnie Moore speaks extremely highly of Wallace - in fact the pedestal he puts him on is a premier league player in the making. High praise indeed.

PS: You sound like a gentleman btw

UTB

 

[Fulwood Blade]

If that is the case sitters then it clearly explains the strange formation in games 1 and 2, Doyle/Collins/Butler commissions. I sincerely hope the first 2 league defeats don't come back to haunt us at the end.

As for Clough laying down the law - it probably had to be done and is certainly the same principles Clough snr displayed.

UTB

 

[wizadry]

I think a couple of people are forgetting our defence,with Collins,has been very solid over the last few seasons,so for me he is getting unjust criticism.It's the other end of the pitch we have stuggled with,incase any of you have forgotten.

In the last 3 seasons we have only conceded 46,42 and 51 goals respectively,that equates to more or less a goal a game,i mean come on,thats not bad at all is it.

Definately unfair for anyone to criticise our defence really and i know it's early days this season,but we have averaged less than a goal a game already and that's after playing a few of the top sides,bearing in mind 3 of the 5 goals have been conceded when Collins hasn't played,so for these reasons alone,have a think about where our priorities should be some of you.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

I think a couple of people are forgetting our defence,with Collins,has been very solid over the last few seasons,so for me he is getting unjust criticism.It's the other end of the pitch we have stuggled with,incase any of you have forgotten.

In the last 3 seasons we have only conceded 46,42 and 51 goals respectively,that equates to more or less a goal a game,i mean come on,thats not bad at all is it.

Definately unfair for anyone to criticise our defence really and i know it's early days this season,but we have averaged less than a goal a game already and that's after playing a few of the top sides,bearing in mind 3 of the 5 goals have been conceded when Collins hasn't played,so for these reasons alone,have a think about where our priorities should be some of you.

It's not so much criticism, there's always room for improvement wiz. Yes, the defence have done a great job in the last few seasons but Wilson's 1st season apart, we've played defensively which has meant the defence haven't been under that much pressure. As I've said elsewhere, Clough's tactics are don't concede first which means a more defensive midfield, full backs who don't bomb forward as much, wingers who spend as much time tracking back as going forward etc.

As we keep saying, we have a top 8 team at the moment, maybe higher if it all clicks but the likes of Collins and Doyle are replaceable and finding better players in those positions would undoubtedly improve our chances, regardless of the need for someone to put the ball away.

Ask yourself this, would you take Maguire and Coady back tomorrow to replace them ?

 

[wizadry]

It's not so much criticism, there's always room for improvement wiz. Yes, the defence have done a great job in the last few seasons but Wilson's 1st season apart, we've played defensively which has meant the defence haven't been under that much pressure. As I've said elsewhere, Clough's tactics are don't concede first which means a more defensive midfield, full backs who don't bomb forward as much, wingers who spend as much time tracking back as going forward etc.

As we keep saying, we have a top 8 team at the moment, maybe higher if it all clicks but the likes of Collins and Doyle are replaceable and finding better players in those positions would undoubtedly improve our chances, regardless of the need for someone to put the ball away.

Ask yourself this, would you take Maguire and Coady back tomorrow to replace them ?

If we can get someone in who is better than anybody we have,and can hit the ground running then i'm all for that.I don't agree with you saying that because we have been defensive minded it makes it easier for the defence though,they have to do even more defending then if thats your theory.

I wouldn't take Maguire back for the reasons i stated in his thread,he made his bed and he can now go lay in it.As for Coady,yes i would have taken him back but thats another story.

 

[Woodwardfan]

It's not so much criticism, there's always room for improvement wiz. Yes, the defence have done a great job in the last few seasons but Wilson's 1st season apart, we've played defensively which has meant the defence haven't been under that much pressure. As I've said elsewhere, Clough's tactics are don't concede first which means a more defensive midfield, full backs who don't bomb forward as much, wingers who spend as much time tracking back as going forward etc.

As we keep saying, we have a top 8 team at the moment, maybe higher if it all clicks but the likes of Collins and Doyle are replaceable and finding better players in those positions would undoubtedly improve our chances, regardless of the need for someone to put the ball away.

Ask yourself this, would you take Maguire and Coady back tomorrow to replace them ?

If someone posed that hypothetical question to me, I wouldn't even think of replacing Collins and Doyle, I'd replace McGahey and Basham. It's all about opinion of course but those two weaknesses, and indeed the other two strengths, shout out at me game in game out.