Some stats for the season so far

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TL;DR for the below - looking at stats after 8 games, we're really bloody bad.

Just some basic figures from fotmob for the Championship to lead off with - out of 24, we are:

22nd for possession% per game (39.9%) - lowest is Lincoln with 35.7%
21st for shots on target per90 (3.1) - lowest is Charlton with 2.6
21st for xG in the league (7.7) - lowest is Charlton with 5.9
24th for touches in opposition box (127) - 10 fewer than anyone else
19th for big chances created (12) - lowest is Charlton with 8

So despite Wilder having said this week that we're a team that likes to have the ball, that likes to build in possession etc., we see less of the ball per game than everyone besides Lincoln and Charlton. That alone isn't terrible, but we don't seem to do a lot when we do have the ball. Very low for shots taken against the rest of the league.

Fotmob didn't have a figure for overall shots taken per 90, just shots on target, but I was able to pull data for that from thestatsdontlie. They have us at 66 shots taken in total, the fewest in the league. That works out at 0.11xG per shot, which seems to be around a typical level for that stat, but the fact we take so few shots (8.25 shots per90 based on the fbref figure), that we simply are not capable of matching up to the teams we face, who are far less shy when it comes to attempts on our goal.

The one stat I found on fotmob which we are ranked highly on, is possession won in the final third. We are 2nd in the league on this metric at 4.1 occasions per90 (top is Swansea at 5.0 for reference), but again, we do exceptionally little with these opportunities. We sometimes force errors in the opposition backline, but our squad is so sluggish that we almost never have support get forward quickly enough to take advantage of them. Peck might become the man to do this, but as demonstrated with his 2 of target attempts in the 2nd half at Stoke yesterday, he won't hit the target consistently enough for this to make a big enough difference.

I know the common belief has been that we've looked solid defensively, but we're having to work incredibly hard to keep teams out, yet we are still allowing a pretty high volume of opportunities.

Per fotmob:

2nd highest for interceptions per90 (11.8) - highest is Lincoln with 12.0
6th highest for clearances per90 (30.3) - highest is Lincoln with 35.1
6th highest for xG against (12.3) - highest is Derby with 14.9

Per thestatsdontlie:

2nd for total shots against (131) - highest is Charlton with 135

So despite all the effort we're putting into defending the goal, evidenced by our very high output for clearances and interceptions, we're still conceding 16.375 shots per game to the opponent - almost twice as many as we're attempting. Interestingly, our xG against per shot is lower than what we're achieving offensively (0.09xGa per shot), but with the sheer volume of shots we're allowing, we are giving up opportunities to the opposition to do exactly what Stoke did to us yesterday - fail to create many high quality chances due to our high defensive work rate, but finding the net simply due to being willing to take shots more often than us.

Our numbers indicate that we very poor at retaining possession, poor at creating chances, even in spite of our ability to often regain possession in advanced areas. We also are poor at denying shots on goal, and if our defenders' work rate drops off that is likely to only get worse.

There's some argument to be made, that the absence of some players who offer some unique qualities within our squad (Oné, Seriki being the most obvious ones in terms of physicality and pace) is causing us to be more defensive than we might be otherwise. But I'd look far more deeply at our complete lack of diversity in midfield, our reluctance to use the one player (Donovan) who is available and offers the pace and directness we otherwise lack, the one-dimensional recruitment we conducted in the summer, and our poor tactical setup as major contributors to our current situation.

We are poor at keeping possession as our midfield is consistently overrun. We are often utilising a 2 in central midfield, in a league where a 3 is far and away the preferred set up. We are pressed in midfield often, leading to giving the ball away under pressure, or our midfield is marked out of the game entirely, leading to the defence having no option but to lump the ball away from the box (hence the high volume of clearances we are making).

The most straightforward workaround to this limitation, would be to simply play on the counter. Allow teams more possession of the ball, but being prepared to break at speed when we win it back. We can't do this, because we have almost no pace in the side. Even when we get Seriki and Oné back into consideration, our number of truly quick players is frighteningly low. Plus, the lack of pace, and general match fitness within our complement of central midfielders, means that even if we do try and break, the opponent will more often than not get bodies back to outnumber our attacking complement.

The only way we can even attempt to play on the break at this point, would be to allow Donovan to use his pace and dribbling ability to carry breakaways upfield. And yet, in the last 2 league games, he's played all of ~6mins of football. Didn't come on at all vs Wolves (Wilder mentioned he was nixed due to the McCallum injury - fair enough, but he should have already been on the pitch at Ayew's expense by then), and only brought on yesterday when we were behind. And to get anything from 2-1 down, we would have had to break Stoke down. Considering that we failed to do that in the >85 minutes that preceeded their winner, we weren't going to do that at the end. We barely even managed it against Fleetwood.

We are going to need a startling turn of events over the international break. The players that Wilder claims will be back from injury, I fear will not be enough to make a significant difference to our performances. My expectation for the Lincoln game, is that we will flounder with the ball, as Lincoln's figures indicate that they are happy to sit in and play on the break (ranked lowest in the league for possession, but best for clean sheets (4 from 8 games), and 8th best for touches in opposition box). We don't have the know-how to break into the box and carve open high xG chances, so we'll shuffle the ball around the edge of the Lincoln box for most of the game, and then get dissected by them on the counter. A result of any nature will highly depend on Cooper saving our blushes I suspect.
A lot of work there u Turn maybe it is because I am an old get and not brought up on stats but after 63 years and counting watching the Blades I much prefer what I see
I have come away from matches thinking how have we won that, how have we lost that, we deserved to lose, and we deserved to win, we should have scored more and we were lucky not to concede more.
I have been at matches where a referee's decision or a linesman's flag right or wrong or an injury to a player during a game or injured players not available changes the course of a game
Based on what I have seen so far this season I believe we will finish 12th -15th in the league but obviously this could change depending on the current injuries we have and what happens in the January transfer window
 
Odd that someone is trying to bring up a game that happened 31 months ago as a “gotcha” moment,

This trawl back in time to try and find a counter argument speaks for itself. Especially when we then lost the following week 5-0 at a home to Brighton, with even less possession.
The point im making is that stats can be skued, shite performances cant. We beat Blackburn according to the main stat, but in reality we was pretty bobbar.

Tell you what why not go down the route of employing a stats "expert" then recruit globally purely based on a players stats alone? That should work well........
 
I really don’t understand people who completely dismiss stats.

Stats are literally the underlying numbers behind every game of football; and yes, people can use them to make arguments that support or contest specific viewpoints, but that doesn’t make them any more or less valid as a source of data.

The only people seemingly being ‘anti-stats’ in this thread are the pro-Wilder crowd who’d prefer to bury their heads in the sand than admit that their messiah’s lost his touch.
 
The point im making is that stats can be skued, shite performances cant. We beat Blackburn according to the main stat, but in reality we was pretty bobbar.

Tell you what why not go down the route of employing a stats "expert" then recruit globally purely based on a players stats alone? That should work well........
I literally don’t think you even know what you’re saying at this point.

The stats showed that Blackburn were the much better team, and the performance backed that up too.

We won the game, yes, but that was down to a combination of luck and exceptional goalkeeping.
 
I really don’t understand people who completely dismiss stats.

Stats are literally the underlying numbers behind every game of football; and yes, people can use them to make arguments that support or contest specific viewpoints, but that doesn’t make them any more or less valid as a source of data.

The only people seemingly being ‘anti-stats’ in this thread are the pro-Wilder crowd who’d prefer to bury their heads in the sand than admit that their messiah’s lost his touch.
Vice versa can also be said. The anti Wilder brigade will use ANY stat to put the boot in and thats why they adore them , gives them more ammunition.
 
I literally don’t think you even know what you’re saying at this point.

The stats showed that Blackburn were the much better team, and the performance backed that up too.

We won the game, yes, but that was down to a combination of luck and exceptional goalkeeping.
Made the stats look stupid thats my point. You cant accomodate luck etc into stats.
 
Vice versa can also be said. The anti Wilder brigade will use ANY stat to put the boot in and thats why they adore them , gives them more ammunition.

I would argue people are using stats and facts to back up their position whereas the other side are saying "who remembers Basham scoring against Leeds?" to back up their position

There are many genuine reasons to keep Wilder right now but current performances isn't one of them. The reason every club in the country spend millions on data analysis to look deeper into stats is because over a season, they usually tell you where you're team is heading.
 
Your possession statistic might be factually accurate (I don't care to check it), but it means nothing in isolation.

Had I brought up a single stat from the Stoke game for example, then you would have a point. Statistical data, on a single-sample basis, is worthless. Which is why any decent attempt at statistical review, ought to use as large a sample size as is feasible. It helps to flatten out any rogue outliers, and makes any potential findings more reliable as a result. An 8-match sample size is smaller than might be ideal, but it's enough to work off of. Especially when considering that the performances delivered in those games have, to the naked eye, not been particularly dissimilar from one another.

If you just don't like stats for whatever reason, fair enough, that's your choice. But saying you'll trust your eyes, when it's blatantly obvious how poor we've been without looking at stats, is just willful ignorance.
I don't need to look at stats to see how poor we are its bleedin obvious.
 



The point im making is that stats can be skued, shite performances cant. We beat Blackburn according to the main stat, but in reality we was pretty bobbar.

Tell you what why not go down the route of employing a stats "expert" then recruit globally purely based on a players stats alone? That should work well........
Of course they don’t. But both the stats and performances are consistently bad.

When did we appoint a stats expert to recruit globally?
 
Stats are anathema to some until they are on the back foot and need to find a suitable one to dig themselves out of a hole.

I wonder where they get it from?
 
I would argue people are using stats and facts to back up their position whereas the other side are saying "who remembers Basham scoring against Leeds?" to back up their position

There are many genuine reasons to keep Wilder right now but current performances isn't one of them. The reason every club in the country spend millions on data analysis to look deeper into stats is because over a season, they usually tell you where you're team is heading.
I believe the club invested heavily on data analysis before the start of last season Roy. We ended up with the James Bord fiasco that has cost us dearly.

Maybe we want to emulate clubs like Brentford , who are excellent at using data, but we just dont know how to go about it. I do agree about Wilder by the way.
 
I believe the club invested heavily on data analysis before the start of last season Roy. We ended up with the James Bord fiasco that has cost us dearly.

Maybe we want to emulate clubs like Brentford , who are excellent at using data, but we just dont know how to go about it. I do agree about Wilder by the way.

We didn't invest heavily in data analysis, we used a ridiculous AI model because we got conned by Bord. The analysis of games is totally different to the analysis of players too. We will undoubtedly use data analysis and the findings will be (or should be) taken seriously by the management team.
 
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Of course they don’t. But both the stats and performances are consistently bad.

When did we appoint a stats expert to recruit

Of course they don’t. But both the stats and performances are consistently bad.

When did we appoint a stats expert to recruit globally?

We didn't invest heavily in data analysis, we used a ridiculous AI model because we got conned by Bord. The analysis of games is totally different to the analysis of players too. We will undoubtedly use data analysis and the findings will be (or should be) taken seriously by the management team.
We do use the data analysis , Wilder often mentions "the numbers" in some of his interviews. I assume that means looking at the recorded data.
 
You can’t ‘make stats look stupid’, stats are literally just data points that happened over the course of a game.
So someone analysing the Blackburn game without actually seeing it but looked at the stats then the score would come to what conclusion?
 
as we know chris wilder only likes stats when they tell him that in the 40 games. we shouldve been in the playoffs last season & 8 games is too small of sample size unless its ruben selles then its big enough

& he doesnt like data. but the data played perfectly summed up cardiff & bolton
"This typically means an elite goalkeeper having a career-defining season, opposing teams finishing poorly against them,"

also Norwich & Fleetwood
indicates a team that spends almost the entire match pinned in their own half. They offer virtually no sustained attacking threat or pressure valve to relieve their defense.
 
This thread is telling. Not just because of uTurn 's analysis but the reactions to it.

Some stats, on their own, tell no story. I'm not particularly fond of xG for example. A team which takes a relatively early lead in a game, especially away from home, and holds that lead for a long time is likely to have a lower xG than it might have simply because that team doesn't need another goal but the opponent does. So the final xG "result" is skewed by necessity. Also, a cross which flashes across the six yard box which someone just fails to get a touch to is classified with an xG of 0.00, which is ridiculous.

However, when you take all this data in the round you can get a reasonable picture of where you are; and we are as lousy as the stats say. Anyone with any kind of objectivity can see that, and unless performances improve we're going to be flirting with relegation if not wedded to it.

Equally, Charlton's early season promise from those numbers looks like it's probably a mirage with points attached, so we'll see in due course if they also sink to where they seem to belong.

But some are suggesting we ignore these dry numerical warnings, plus the evidence of our own eyes because of what? Misty water colour memories?
 



This thread is telling. Not just because of uTurn 's analysis but the reactions to it.

Some stats, on their own, tell no story. I'm not particularly fond of xG for example. A team which takes a relatively early lead in a game, especially away from home, and holds that lead for a long time is likely to have a lower xG than it might have simply because that team doesn't need another goal but the opponent does. So the final xG "result" is skewed by necessity. Also, a cross which flashes across the six yard box which someone just fails to get a touch to is classified with an xG of 0.00, which is ridiculous.

However, when you take all this data in the round you can get a reasonable picture of where you are; and we are as lousy as the stats say. Anyone with any kind of objectivity can see that, and unless performances improve we're going to be flirting with relegation if not wedded to it.

Equally, Charlton's early season promise from those numbers looks like it's probably a mirage with points attached, so we'll see in due course if they also sink to where they seem to belong.

But some are suggesting we ignore these dry numerical warnings, plus the evidence of our own eyes because of what? Misty water colour memories?
The club uses data and nothing wrong with that. No one is saying ignore the figures, where on earth did you pluck that from?
 

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