Why did Wilder scrap the overlapping centre backs for.......

[Kenilworth]

End of the day they rested on their laurels and didn’t try to find suitable replacements, it could have continued to work even if not ‘overlapping’. Palace are having great success using a 3 to this day, so it’s not like it doesn’t work, it’s just our recruitment was awful

Our budget was awful.
The recruitment you can achieve is a direct factor of how much you have in the kitty. Your choices are different depending on what pond you’re fishing in. Man City cast offs was a mere puddle on a dry day.

 

[Carlton Blade]

All United's good PL 19/20 attacking performances - Burnley, Villa, Man Utd at home, Spurs away had something in common. A fit and interested Lys Mousset.

Once that was gone, United stuck at it, tried hard, defended superbly and nicked some close wins. Post Liverpool away to Norwich at home United picked up 14 points in 7 games, despite only scoring 7 goals.

We've convinced ourselves that the overlapping CBs was tearing up the PL attacking wise, but it just wasn't the case.

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

Started off so well about the O’Connell and Basham scenario. It went to shit because O’Connell was injured and he was irreplaceable in that formation.

But the ego thing about not wanting to go back to it is a tired and lazy trope. Wilder would absolutely go back to that system if he had the personnel to do so. Not saying he’s be playing it every game because the modern way is to alter the formation depending on a) the opponents you are facing and their strengths you wish to counter, and b) whether you’re in possession or out of possession.

Quite simply, the reason it all went to shit was to do with players being injured and not having the wedge to spend to replace with equivalent quality.

As proof - remember Kean Bryan?

I think he’d certainly go back to it now, if he had the squad to make it work. Tbf, the post you quote here is more than 18 months old, and things have changed a bit since then.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Our budget was awful.
The recruitment you can achieve is a direct factor of how much you have in the kitty. Your choices are different depending on what pond you’re fishing in. Man City cast offs was a mere puddle on a dry day.

We limited ourselves to a ridiculously small pond.

 

[Harrisblade]

.......slow moving tediously boring football?
I know some say that we got rumbled in our second season a few years back but i would rather get a bit rumbled and see us attacking teams and having a go.
Any other reason he would abandon a free flowing attacking system?

Because the player that made it all possible got injured and had to retire from the game!

 

[Sean Thornton]

Because the player that made it all possible got injured and had to retire from the game!

To is he was irreplaceable. He would have gone to a PL club for a big fee. Sadly a possible great career ruined by injury.

 

[Kenilworth]

We limited ourselves to a ridiculously small pond.

Full of invertebrates

 

[beatific blade]

That formation/system/model got "found out" around the time the majority of PL sides started building a 2-3-5 in attack, with wingers staying high and wide. This evolution massively hurt us because teams could squeeze us really quick and immediately exploit the space left by our wide CB pushing on.

 

[N20 Blade]

All United's good PL 19/20 attacking performances - Burnley, Villa, Man Utd at home, Spurs away had something in common. A fit and interested Lys Mousset.

Once that was gone, United stuck at it, tried hard, defended superbly and nicked some close wins. Post Liverpool away to Norwich at home United picked up 14 points in 7 games, despite only scoring 7 goals.

We've convinced ourselves that the overlapping CBs was tearing up the PL attacking wise, but it just wasn't the case.

I agree entirely, rose-tinted glasses seem to play a major role here. We were exceptionally solid, and generally the fine margins went our way. Like you say, those four games were the exception to the rule, and everything worked like a dream. But most games we didn't look like scoring. Mousset was the difference, you are right. Once he stopped, so did our threat and clinical finishing.

Don't get me wrong, it was a great 2/3 of a season, but the percentages were so slight, any slight drop off, and we were bound to suffer. I like many still think the Leicester defeat tantrum was the turning point.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I agree entirely, rose-tinted glasses seem to play a major role here. We were exceptionally solid, and generally the fine margins went our way. Like you say, those four games were the exception to the rule, and everything worked like a dream. But most games we didn't look like scoring. Mousset was the difference, you are right. Once he stopped, so did our threat and clinical finishing.

Don't get me wrong, it was a great 2/3 of a season, but the percentages were so slight, any slight drop off, and we were bound to suffer. I like many still think the Leicester defeat tantrum was the turning point.

I think we needed either better players or a different approach. 53 points was always a bit of an anomaly and wasn't going to be repeated but some more self reflection and we may well have been more competitive in 20/21

 

[N20 Blade]

I think we needed either better players or a different approach. 53 points was always a bit of an anomaly and wasn't going to be repeated but some more self reflection and we may well have been more competitive in 20/21

Complete supposition, but for me football changed markedly post lockdown. It seemed other teams / clubs used the downtime to re-assess and recalibrate. I got the impression we rather sat on our laurels, and were unable to hit the ground running when the next season started. Lots of other factors and like I say a subjective view, with no insights, but the tail off was extreme.

Like you state, self reflection and constructive criticism of ourselves would have been prudent. Also, it was this period where our fitness levels started to implode. If one accepts we were less technically able than others, then the prerequisite should always have been to be the fittest.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Complete supposition, but for me football changed markedly post lockdown. It seemed other teams / clubs used the downtime to re-assess and recalibrate. I got the impression we rather sat on our laurels, and were unable to hit the ground running when the next season started. Lots of other factors and like I say a subjective view, with no insights, but the tail off was extreme.

Like you state, self reflection and constructive criticism of ourselves would have been prudent. Also, it was this period where our fitness levels started to implode. If one accepts we were less technically able than others, then the prerequisite should always have been to be the fittest.

Agree with all that. It'd be interesting if "how did that team end up 9th" figured into those recalibrations.

 

[Bladesman]

Complete supposition, but for me football changed markedly post lockdown. It seemed other teams / clubs used the downtime to re-assess and recalibrate. I got the impression we rather sat on our laurels, and were unable to hit the ground running when the next season started. Lots of other factors and like I say a subjective view, with no insights, but the tail off was extreme.

Like you state, self reflection and constructive criticism of ourselves would have been prudent. Also, it was this period where our fitness levels started to implode. If one accepts we were less technically able than others, then the prerequisite should always have been to be the fittest.

We went all out with fitness during lockdown probably too much. I remember Wilder saying every player had very strict fitness routines to do at home.

I think other clubs actually treated lockdown as more of a break for the players and their fitness routines were less intense.

When we came back injuries started to occur which makes me think we went too far during lockdown with whatever our fitness plan was.

 

[LudlamBlade]

We went all out with fitness during lockdown probably too much. I remember Wilder saying every player had very strict fitness routines to do at home.

I think other clubs actually treated lockdown as more of a break for the players and their fitness routines were less intense.

When we came back injuries started to occur which makes me think we went too far during lockdown with whatever our fitness plan was.

This is exactly what happened. We also had a lot of players with drinking problems, which they were distracted from during the season, but lockdown left them alone with the sauce and trying to manage a gruelling fitness regime with a drinking problem is a hard ask for anyone, let alone someone whp is as much in the public eye as a Premier League footballer

 

[bruce]

All United's good PL 19/20 attacking performances - Burn

Once that was gone, United stuck at it, tried hard, defended superbly and nicked some close wins. Post Liverpool away to Norwich at home United picked up 14 points in 7 games, despite only scoring 7 goals.

We've convinced ourselves that the overlapping CBs was tearing up the PL attacking wise, but it just wasn't the case.

I think we had a real resilience that season, borne out by the fact that on 9 occasions where the opposition scored first we came back and got something from the game. Winning 2 and drawing 7. And there was also the home game against Manchester United where we went 2-0 up, then in a mad 10 minute spell went 3-2 down. Many sides would have conceded one or two more after that, but we came back and got an injury time equaliser.
As you have highlighted, we didn't score all that many goals that season. 39. Only 4 more than we scored in the terrible 2023-4 season.

 

[Tanny1889]

Our budget was awful.
The recruitment you can achieve is a direct factor of how much you have in the kitty. Your choices are different depending on what pond you’re fishing in. Man City cast offs was a mere puddle on a dry day.

Do you really think they looked far and wide which is what the teams in recent years who have established themselves have done, picking up players on the continent who fit the player profile. Obviously our scouting infrastructure wasn’t there, but you can’t be blaming budget when £35 million was sank into Brewster (when we had 2 strikers who had okay seasons with 6 a piece, and McGoldrick & Sharp behind them)

 

[Kenilworth]

Do you really think they looked far and wide which is what the teams in recent years who have established themselves have done, picking up players on the continent who fit the player profile. Obviously our scouting infrastructure wasn’t there, but you can’t be blaming budget when £35 million was sank into Brewster (when we had 2 strikers who had okay seasons with 6 a piece, and McGoldrick & Sharp behind them)

“Obviously our scouting infrastructure wasn’t there, but”
So, no I don’t. We weren’t set up for the scouting or the subsequent integration of such players.

It’s convenient to dismiss the key factor that differentiates those, “teams in recent years who have established themselves, picking up players on the continent who fit the player profile.”

And forget that we’d just come out of 6 years in division 3, with a Saudi Prince who had very limited funds.

Would you have been happier doing a Norwich and still going down anyway? Or the money they speculated on Brewster being diverted into a recruitment and scouting infrastructure that would have been unsustainably funded?

 

[Gimli]

We weren’t starting to tail off before the first Covid lockdown. Unless you class narrow defeats to the two best teams in the league as tailing off (Man City twice and Liverpool once).

Against all other teams after losing to Newcastle in early December it was 7 wins and 3 draws in the Premier League.

Our best sequence of results of the season / previous 25 years.

I don’t think I took that run for granted at the time, but 4 defeats in 25 is ridiculously good for a promoted team!