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LondonBlade89 said:
No one has it in for Robinson. I actually think a lot of the debate on here over him has been pretty clear-eyed. It’s nothing personal against him. I just don’t rate him at all.
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I CBA to quote all the messages, but posters on this forum have been explicitly saying they hate him all season, with those exact words.

At Bristol City away (where he put in a solid performance), a group of blokes in front of me suddenly became not just angry, but enraged, screaming at Robinson calling him a stupid cunt. Why? Because he fouled someone as a set piece was coming into the box.

I don't remember the game, but seasons ago he confronted a fan during a game at home sat in the family stand, who shouted loads of abuse at him during the game. You're a good poster, but it's absurd to suggest people don't have it in for him.
 

For me Robinson isn't the big issue, it's Robinson with Anel as a pairing. They are completely unsuited together. Put a dominant centre back next to either and they'd look better as we saw when Souttar played next to them.

Robinsons inability to play out from the back is his main shortfall overall though. He had the most touches on the pitch at Wembley as he often does in other games we lose. Teams are happy with him having the ball because they know they'll likely have it back a few seconds later.
 
AWetFlannel said:
I CBA to quote all the messages, but posters on this forum have been explicitly saying they hate him all season, with those exact words.

At Bristol City away (where he put in a solid performance), a group of blokes in front of me suddenly became not just angry, but enraged, screaming at Robinson calling him a stupid cunt. Why? Because he fouled someone as a set piece was coming into the box.

I don't remember the game, but seasons ago he confronted a fan during a game at home sat in the family stand, who shouted loads of abuse at him during the game. You're a good poster, but it's absurd to suggest people don't have it in for him.
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That’s fair cop. I suppose the point I was trying to get at was that a lot of people have very valid criticisms of Robinson, which doesn’t involve personal hatred in the slightest. And I don’t think any criticism should = hatred of him and therefore be dismissed as such. But I totally get your point and think that’s fair that among some it does spill over into hatred.
 
AWetFlannel said:
It's a fair comment and I always respect a bit of pedantry.

I've watched football all my life and played Sunday league. I feel I know a lot about football , just not not as much as someone that has spent ALL their life with the game as a career.

Our manager isn't just some bloke who got lucky and happened to get some coaching badges, he's been very successful throughout his management career at one of the highest levels in the world.

I don't see the players in training, I don't know the dynamics of the dressing room, I don't rewatch matches and analyse them, I don't pore over stats. Most of us have a few pints before a game and watch it once.
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Wilder obviously knows more than all of us on here. Jesus, even David Weir did. That said I'd argue football is completely subjective. There's no definitive right of wrong answer. It's not an exact science and so fans will always question how things could have gone better. We failed to go up when we had it in our hands twice so it's natural people are going to look into what went wrong. The chairmen who sack managers year after year aren't experts but they do the same.
 
Roygbiv said:
For me Robinson isn't the big issue, it's Robinson with Anel as a pairing. They are completely unsuited together. Put a dominant centre back next to either and they'd look better as we saw when Souttar played next to them.

Robinsons inability to play out from the back is his main shortfall overall though. He had the most touches on the pitch at Wembley as he often does in other games we lose. Teams are happy with him having the ball because they know they'll likely have it back a few seconds later.
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I know what you mean but, equally, put any centre back next to a dominant partner and they’ll look better. If you stick Anel next to someone dominant, it frees him up to bring out more of his attacking flair and ability on the ball. Stick Robinson next to someone dominant and ideally it just gives him less to do.
 
LondonBlade89 said:
I know what you mean but, equally, put any centre back next to a dominant partner and they’ll look better. If you stick Anel next to someone dominant, it frees him up to bring out more of his attacking flair and ability on the ball. Stick Robinson next to someone dominant and ideally it just gives him less to do.
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Fair point
 
Roygbiv said:
Wilder obviously knows more than all of us on here. Jesus, even David Weir did. That said I'd argue football is completely subjective. There's no definitive right of wrong answer. It's not an exact science and so fans will always question how things could have gone better. We failed to go up when we had it in our hands twice so it's natural people are going to look into what went wrong. The chairmen who sack managers year after year aren't experts but they do the same.
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I think it's somewhat subjective, which is what makes it so interesting. All managers get things wrong and so criticism is obviously valid at any point, even more so after the PO final.

Are most posts in the last few pages fans explaining how, in their subjective opinion, Holding is better than Robinson? Nah, a solid 50% are saying Holding is better, full stop, and Wilder must be thick, or compromised to be playing him. It must be to make himself look good in some strange way, or because he values pashun over performance, or because he picks favourites for non-footballing reasons.

The most obvious explanation of how we lost when we had it in our hands is that their lad scored a screamer. You can play well, create loads of chances and score, but if their lad smacks in a less than 0.1 xG chances, you lose. Of course valid criticism can me made about every detail (and inevitably will given the gravity of the game), but sometimes the biggest factors are as simple as that.
 
AWetFlannel said:
I think it's somewhat subjective, which is what makes it so interesting. All managers get things wrong and so criticism is obviously valid at any point, even more so after the PO final.

Are most posts in the last few pages fans explaining how, in their subjective opinion, Holding is better than Robinson? Nah, a solid 50% are saying Holding is better, full stop, and Wilder must be thick, or compromised to be playing him. It must be to make himself look good in some strange way, or because he values pashun over performance, or because he picks favourites for non-footballing reasons.

The most obvious explanation of how we lost when we had it in our hands is that their lad scored a screamer. You can play well, create loads of chances and score, but if their lad smacks in a less than 0.1 xG chances, you lose. Of course valid criticism can me made about every detail (and inevitably will given the gravity of the game), but sometimes the biggest factors are as simple as that.
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I think it's understandable that people will debate why we were coasting until both teams made subs though. It's natural the manager will be questioned when the game changes so swiftly after both sides made changes. You are right though, if in the 94th minute Kieffer Moore puts the ball the other way to Cannon he's got a run on goal and may score. Then it's the Sunderland fans asking what went wrong.
 
Maidenhead said:
Which quality centre back that we could have gone for actually moved during the window?

Which quality centre back that didn't move during the window may have been available to us?

And if such a centre back does exist, how do you know that we didn't make any appropriate offers during the window?
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We don’t need a striker … let alone one for £11 million
 
Roygbiv said:
I think it's understandable that people will debate why we were coasting until both teams made subs though. It's natural the manager will be questioned when the game changes so swiftly after both sides made changes. You are right though, if in the 94th minute Kieffer Moore puts the ball the other way to Cannon he's got a run on goal and may score. Then it's the Sunderland fans asking what went wrong.
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Even Mepham towing a caravan would have caught Cannon over the 30 yards he had to cover before shooting
 
Jan Age said:
We wasted £11 million on a striker which could have been used for a quality CB
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i agree on the striker has not turned out as expected but at Christmas all our strikers where out injured leaving little choice to invest in this area!
 
AWetFlannel said:
Of course, but with those important facts as a starting point: I know fuck all about professional football compared to our manager, I know fuck all about our players compared to our manager.

I might question a scientist, historian or archeologist, but I'd look like a fool if I assumed my relatively uniformed opinion was greater than theirs.
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So, taking that to its logical conclusion, you’re saying that no manager should ever lose their job because the people above them (the board) are not qualified to judge them & their performance?
 
Hobgoblin said:
i agree on the striker has not turned out as expected but at Christmas all our strikers where out injured leaving little choice to invest in this area!
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Seems like a pure panic buy though. Any Championship journeyman on loan would have contributed more. Even some prick like Ashley Barnes
 

Roygbiv said:
Wilder obviously knows more than all of us on here. Jesus, even David Weir did. That said I'd argue football is completely subjective. There's no definitive right of wrong answer. It's not an exact science and so fans will always question how things could have gone better. We failed to go up when we had it in our hands twice so it's natural people are going to look into what went wrong. The chairmen who sack managers year after year aren't experts but they do the same.
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This is right. Wilder has a reason for picking Robbo over Holding. He has never said what that reason is. If we knew, we may agree with it. Or we may not. But there will be a reason that makes sense to Wilder.

For what it’s worth, I think Robbo has been generally ok this season. Yes he’s made a couple of noteworthy mistakes. But so have all of our players. The criticism of Robbo always seems wildly disproportionate to me.
 
relish said:
This is right. Wilder has a reason for picking Robbo over Holding. He has never said what that reason is. If we knew, we may agree with it. Or we may not. But there will be a reason that makes sense to Wilder.

For what it’s worth, I think Robbo has been generally ok this season. Yes he’s made a couple of noteworthy mistakes. But so have all of our players. The criticism of Robbo always seems wildly disproportionate to me.
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He's a perfectly able back up for a promotion side. He shouldn't be a starter (in a 2 at least) for a promotion hopeful but he's not this terrible defender some make out. I think he'd immediately be Wednesdays best defender for instance who finished mid table. I think that's his level personally.
 
Wilder has always been big on balance in central defence. Left footed centre half on the left, right footed centre half on the right*. The only time he's veered away from that has been earlier this season when Souttar and Ahmedhodzic's partnership was so solid it was impossible to drop one of them.

16/17: O'Connell (L) - Wilson (R) then O'Connell (L) - Wright (L) - Basham (R)
17/18: O'Connell (L) - Stearman (R) - Basham (R)
18/19: O'Connell (L) - Egan (R) - Basham (R)
19/20: O'Connell (L) - Egan (R) - Basham (R)
20/21: Robinson (L) - Egan (R) - Basham (R)
21/22 n/a
22/23 n/a
23/24: Robinson (L) OR Trusty (L) - Ahmedhodzic (R) OR Robinson (L) - Trusty (L) - Ahmedhodzic (R)
24/25: Robinson (L) - Ahmedhodzic (R) OR Ahmedhodzic (R) - Souttar (R)
 
They’ll be some youngsters that are released and we’ll inevitably all decide that they’re suddenly the best players the clubs ever produced even when they sign for Boreham Wood.

Robinson will stay. Even if he didn’t have the option to extend it we would for another year or two. He’s an average championship centr half and perfectly serviceable as a back up. He was intended to be that this year with Souttar and Anel as the starting pair.

Whether Brewster stays will be interesting. I really hope he doesn’t, as he’s not good enough and will be on a massive wage, but if we intend to keep him it shows the owners are intending to run the club as it’s been run since we first went up, little overhaul in personnel when able and backing Wilder.
 
Nick Jansky said:
So, taking that to its logical conclusion, you’re saying that no manager should ever lose their job because the people above them (the board) are not qualified to judge them & their performance?
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No.

Managers are ultimately judged on results. When results don't meet expectations and the fans have turned, most boards will fire them. Many owners and board members aren't qualified to judge them and make awful decisions, we can all name hundreds.

Judging specific decisions and getting into the nuances of the sport is tricky, but it's fairly easy to look at your budget and points total and state that the manger isn't doing well enough. We all knew Adkins should have been sacked, the league table spoke for itself. Many of us might have struggled to explain exactly what he was doing wrong and why, but you didn't need to to know he had to go.
 
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Roygbiv said:
For me Robinson isn't the big issue, it's Robinson with Anel as a pairing. They are completely unsuited together. Put a dominant centre back next to either and they'd look better as we saw when Souttar played next to them.

Robinsons inability to play out from the back is his main shortfall overall though. He had the most touches on the pitch at Wembley as he often does in other games we lose. Teams are happy with him having the ball because they know they'll likely have it back a few seconds later.
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Absolutely
I'm with robbo playing alongside a dominant organiser like souttar or holding
He's not as good as anel is alongside a real leader but he's good enough
The problem is wilder didn't play the dominant leader so we ended up.with a weak partnership that ultimately cost us
100 % on wilder
Whatever the reason if holding wasn't played because of fitness or attitude issues then it's on wilder for not prioritising a centre back when souttar got injured

Ive Absolutely no faith in wilder to get it right next season as some of his decision making this season has been severely lacking although I do appreciate his overall job in getting us competitive enough to challenge

Also if we can't afford to compete wage wise for choudhury and holding we have no chance of autos next season
 
AWetFlannel said:
No.

Managers are ultimately judged on results. When results don't meet expectations and the fans have turned, most boards will fire them. Many owners and board members aren't qualified to judge them and make awful decisions, we can all name hundreds.

Judging specific decisions and getting into the nuances of the sport is tricky, but it's fairly easy to look at your budget and points total and state that the manger isn't doing well enough. We all knew Adkins should have been sacked, the league table spoke for itself. Many of us might have struggled to explain exactly what he was doing wrong and why, but you didn't need to to know he had to go.
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Expectations these days are increasingly determined by budgets because it’s a pretty good measure of where a team is likely to finish. Arguably, for a manager to be considered a success they have to overperform compared to budget. For instance, a manager with a bottom 3 budget finishing mid table, or one with a mid table budget getting promotion.

On that basis, (and I know it isn’t as simple as this with other factors being involved) Farke & Parker have merely achieved expectations, nothing more, Wilder the same, but hasn’t been good enough to exceed expectations, and Le Bris has been the most successful of the lot.
 
Hobgoblin said:
i agree on the striker has not turned out as expected but at Christmas all our strikers where out injured leaving little choice to invest in this area!
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You can’t level one signing at the manager.

The club and the money men have to agree on it…..

But £11 million on a striker who hardly played and when he did was ineffective is not a good signing…

To leave it until the 11th hour and bring in a CB on loan who hadn’t played first team football was a big gamble … and then we didn’t play him.

I’d rather have kept the money and gone with what we had but that’s hindsight …. We needed a CB and didn’t get one … just like arsenal needed a striker and refused to get one …. Net result = same … target for the season not achieved.
 

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