Any opinions changed on the quality of scot players?

[highpeakblade]

Self explanatory title really. Up until even recent months the opinions of our scottish players eg Flynn and Murphy have been very mixed and the overall opinion of players recruited from Scotland in general have been very negative.

In the last couple of months Murphy & Flynn have grown heaps and bounds, I personally am glad cos I backed em to the rafters and got a load of flack for doing so but I just saw enough in them to think they were capable of being good players for us. In addition to this we have Scougall who has hit the ground running and looks to be a fave for all.

What you all reckon? Same opinion? New opinion? Jury out?

 

[Pinchy]

Yes..........No...........What was the question again?

Flynn and Murph transformed under Cloughie.

I Scoogs!

 

[MBoreman]

I've always rated Flynn and have always thought Murphy had potential and just needed confidence and a bit more strength so while i don't think it should be our main source I think if given time to adapt Scottish players can do well at this level.

 

[alcoblade]

Yes..........No...........What was the question again?

Flynn and Murph transformed under Cloughie.

I Scoogs!

Yes, some positive signs, and I'm feeling better about things. Credit to Clough, Flynn and Murphy for the turnaround.

To the OP, being half full of scottish players and sat 4th form bottom of the 3rd division, the time for opinion change isn't quite yet.

UTB

 

[Bergen Blade]

I think many fans like to describe players as great or crap.

There may be lots of different reasons why a player doesn't perform to the maximum of his ability. When I saw Jamie Murphy the first couple of times I thought he had the right attributes to do well for us out wide. This quote is from cooperblade a year ago:

Murphy - showed on a couple of occasions that he's capable of absolutely destroying a full back with a burst of pace or a touch of skill. That was really encouraging. However, he needs a bit more composure with his final ball and (...)

When a player has showed that he can do things like the above, it's all about trying to get the right mix of players around him, and choose the right tactics to make him effective.

We were far too slow, predictable and negative last season. First game apart, we were even worse at the start of this season. Murphy usually received the ball standing still and with his back to goal. He's poor in those situations. Tell him to do that, tell the team use him that way, and he will play poorly. Some of the worst performances I've seen in a United shirt have come from Murphy, but I've never given up on him.

Clough has made us much more direct (not long passing), showing a lot more urgency. We've finally got full backs who can contribute offensively and although we're still in trouble I think we are seeing more of what Clough wants us to do. The instructions to our wide men, the way they play now, is very different, very much improved.

Back to Murphy, the jigsaw is not complete. I think he'll probably improve even more if we manage to find some more pace and mobility up front. Getting Scougall has helped, but Murphy is still the only one in our preferred front three or four with good pace.

 

[Deadly_D'Jaffo]

I still think the jury is out on Murphy to be honest. He struggled on Saturday and the pattern I have noticed is that he struggles when up against a pacy defender, but he has improved significantly recently.

Flynn has been nothing short of remarkable and if he can continue the standard of his latest performances right until the end then he is my vote for player of the season. Definitely earned a contract extension.

As for Scougall. Saturday is the first game I have seen him live in and he impressed me. The only time I have seen a performance like he put on Saturday usually belongs to a player against us. I cannot remember a player since Paul Devlin who would fearlessly run at a bunch of a players like Scougall did Saturday. His passing (despite the assist) is sometimes sloppy but perhaps that was tired legs from the cup game.

 

[UnitedBlade]

Flynn and Murphy have been transformed under Clough. He has instilled more confidence in them and hopefully he has instructed them to try and take full backs on the outside and then get a cross or shot in. It doesn't mean they are "not allowed" to cut inside but it is so much more positive.

Flynn is helped enormously by having a mobile full back in Brayford, so the option is often there to slip it forward to an overlapping full back.

The constant checking and recycling thankfully has gone although again if it's the right thing to do then that's OK.

For Murphy, I just wish he'd try and get more physical against his full backs, at times he just seems to accept them knocking him off the ball. I had a look at the shots per player stats recently and Murphy is actually one of the most accurate in getting it on target but doesn't shoot often enough. I would be happy for him to be more greedy and take more shots now and again.

Scougall looks great and I love players who run at the heart of defences. This was non existent in the bad old days of Weir.

It's noticeable that Maguire and Collins have licence to run the ball now and that's good. They have both created goals with this in recent games.

Bob has made a good start, gets tight for tackling and is even prepared to shoot. If he can get crosses in as well then great.

McGinn still leads our assists (it's only 5 but that puts him 9th equal in the league). So he's good enough in the final third but I don't think he's that good defensively.

We need them all at the top of their games.

 

[blader]

I think the wool has been slightly pulled over people's eyes regarding Flynn and Murphy, to be honest, even myself to an extent.

*Tin hat in position*

I think the undoubted transformation has gone from having 2 crap league 1 wingers, to having 2 average league 1 wingers. Due to this, I think people are hugely overestimating their capabilities somewhat. Yes, they have improved. Yes, they are putting in more effort. However, this cannot affect the overriding problem which is that of natural ability, and equally as importantly, pace.

Brandy, had the wrong mentality, lower effort levels, but has a lot more natural ability. This is seen by him scoring a hat-trick in his first game out on loan! I still see at least one winger in most teams we play against I would prefer to have instead of Flynn and Murphy. There has been a huge improvement in both players, but i still feel it is somewhere Nigel could strengthen in summer.

 

[itsinyerblood]

I think the wool has been slightly pulled over people's eyes regarding Flynn and Murphy, to be honest, even myself to an extent.

*Tin hat in position*

I think the undoubted transformation has gone from having 2 crap league 1 wingers, to having 2 average league 1 wingers. Due to this, I think people are hugely overestimating their capabilities somewhat. Yes, they have improved. Yes, they are putting in more effort. However, this cannot affect the overriding problem which is that of natural ability, and equally as importantly, pace.

Brandy, had the wrong mentality, lower effort levels, but has a lot more natural ability. This is seen by him scoring a hat-trick in his first game out on loan! I still see at least one winger in most teams we play against I would prefer to have instead of Flynn and Murphy. There has been a huge improvement in both players, but i still feel it is somewhere Nigel could strengthen in summer.

Yes blader , I can see how you've arrived at that summary of Flynn and Murphy. Of the two I feel Murphy may have it in him to respond to greater demands, but I'll be only too happy to be proved wrong. Flynn has certainly improved, but although he gave of his best on Saturday, he was wrapped up and pocketed by the Shrewsbury fullback (one we should keep an eye on if we can't secure Brayford's services). One ineffective game in what has been an upswing in both their levels of performance shouldn't condemn a player, but if we're to move upwards the oppositional quality all over the park will improve, so it's only right to expect players to want to test themselves against better players. Brandy is an interesting case. Is he what we need? Apart from his skill, does his other qualities sit well with what Clough is seeking? He certainly has temperament issues,but then that's why Clough gets paid to find solutions to problems, assuming Nigel feels he's what we need.

Just on a Brayford train of thought, you can see why Brayford interested Cardiff, the guy is class, a natural athlete, and has good football awareness. We can all see how good he is, and I hope, if we stay up, Cloughie manages to get Brayford to put pen to paper. If he costs us a higher than average wage you won't hear any complaints from this Blade. I doubt we'll find a better defender with the type of attacking qualities that Brayford has, and he just fits so perfectly into what Clough is trying to build.

 

[Fiery Blade]

Two things:
Yes, our Scottish contingent have improved beyond measure but, I am not sure that William Wallace would have wanted to rely on them as he marched on to Falkirk !
As regards Brayford, quality footballer that is only with us because of the Clough connection - I am sure his qualities lie at a higher level than Division Three even if we manage to stay up !

 

[Bladesman]

Not sure there is necessarily wrong with many players from Scotland.

I think in the case of Flynn and Murphy they lacked confidence at times.

 

[Sirius]

I think the wool has been slightly pulled over people's eyes regarding Flynn and Murphy, to be honest, even myself to an extent.

*Tin hat in position*

I think the undoubted transformation has gone from having 2 crap league 1 wingers, to having 2 average league 1 wingers. Due to this, I think people are hugely overestimating their capabilities somewhat. Yes, they have improved. Yes, they are putting in more effort. However, this cannot affect the overriding problem which is that of natural ability, and equally as importantly, pace.

Brandy, had the wrong mentality, lower effort levels, but has a lot more natural ability. This is seen by him scoring a hat-trick in his first game out on loan! I still see at least one winger in most teams we play against I would prefer to have instead of Flynn and Murphy. There has been a huge improvement in both players, but i still feel it is somewhere Nigel could strengthen in summer.

Not having been able to see the Blades, apart from You Tube clips, I'm not in a position to estimate the quality and potential of any player. I am just pleased that Nigel, appears to know what he is about and that,for whatever reason, he is getting the best out of Flynn, Murphy and others. Is it that they play with less fear now, whereas previously they were afraid of making even a simple mistake. May the improvement continue guys.

 

[Bulletnut]

Don't really understand the point of the thread to be honest. I don't have any pre-conceptions about any players based on where they come from, I like to take a look at how they perform then make my mind up.

I liked the look of Scougal from what I saw on YouTube believe it or not and his performances so far would suggest that he might just be a cracking signing.

 

[Maidenhead]

What we need is a load of ex Watford players.

It worked in the 70's

 

[Bladesway]

Don't really understand the point of the thread to be honest. I don't have any pre-conceptions about any players based on where they come from, I like to take a look at how they perform then make my mind up.

I liked the look of Scougal from what I saw on YouTube believe it or not and his performances so far would suggest that he might just be a cracking signing.

What this man said. Does where they come from make any difference?

 

[Grecian2000]

What we need is a load of ex Watford players.

It worked in the 70's

Well it worked until Terry Garbett and Colin "fastest man in football" Franks showed up and then it all went tits.

 

[cooperblade]

It's noticeable that Maguire and Collins have licence to run the ball now and that's good. They have both created goals with this in recent games.

Completely agree with this. I commented at the match on Saturday that Maguire can be a tremendous attacking weapon in open play. He's got the skill to carry the ball and pick a pass, the opposition get pulled out of position when he comes forward because no-one is sure who should go to him and his sheer size means players are reluctant to tackle him once he's got some momentum for fear of getting flattened.

When he brings the ball into midfield he reminds me a lot of Trianos Dellas who used to walk through teams with the ball at his feet!

 

[broomhillblade]

What this man said. Does where they come from make any difference?

I think the perception of Scottish footballers is more about the quality of the Scottish football leagues. It is difficult to judge whether a player can make it south of the border.

 

[stringjunior]

Who is Scot Players?

 

[highpeakblade]

Don't really understand the point of the thread to be honest. I don't have any pre-conceptions about any players based on where they come from, I like to take a look at how they perform then make my mind up.

I liked the look of Scougal from what I saw on YouTube believe it or not and his performances so far would suggest that he might just be a cracking signing.

What this man said. Does where they come from make any difference?

Regardless of any in-differences that I have had with you two on previous threads this one has plenty of relevance in relation to many a previous post on this forum in which numerous posters have knocked the overall quality of players north of the border, many compared the standard of football up there as poor and even comparable in parts to the English League Two level of ability.

The recruitment of Murphy and Flynn and the players overall ability as well as our strategy for outing and recruiting in Scotland has come under quite a bit of scrutiny from Blades not only on here but on other sites therefore all things considered what with the much improved performances of these two players as well as the recruitment of a very useful looking Scougall makes this thread more than relevant and a good chance to gauge whether the general opinion has changed!.

 

[Bladesway]

Regardless of any in-differences that I have had with you two on previous threads this one has plenty of relevance in relation to many a previous post on this forum in which numerous posters have knocked the overall quality of players north of the border, many compared the standard of football up there as poor and even comparable in parts to the English League Two level of ability.

The recruitment of Murphy and Flynn and the players overall ability as well as our strategy for outing and recruiting in Scotland has come under quite a bit of scrutiny from Blades not only on here but on other sites therefore all things considered what with the much improved performances of these two players as well as the recruitment of a very useful looking Scougall makes this thread more than relevant and a good chance to gauge whether the general opinion has changed!.

what differences have we had? You are a serial thread starter in my opinion, well good on you. But I didn't think we had any major differences. God only knows what that makes me and Alco then. I still don't understand the point of the thread by the way.

 

[Bladesway]

I think the perception of Scottish footballers is more about the quality of the Scottish football leagues. It is difficult to judge whether a player can make it south of the border.

I think it actually makes it easier. SPL is about League 1 and anything below is pro-rata. we dug a decent player out in Flynn and seem to have done the same with Scougall. I wish we had gone for Leigh Griffiths and offered him the moon on a stick because he is an out and out goalscorer and the solution to our current plight. Derek Riorden would have been interesting a couple of years ago. Best goalscorer I have seen in some time at that level. Aluko has ended up in the Premiership but generally Scottish players have had a hard time of it (Goodwillie at Blackburn anyone?) above that level.

 

[Bulletnut]

Regardless of any in-differences that I have had with you two on previous threads this one has plenty of relevance in relation to many a previous post on this forum in which numerous posters have knocked the overall quality of players north of the border, many compared the standard of football up there as poor and even comparable in parts to the English League Two level of ability.

The recruitment of Murphy and Flynn and the players overall ability as well as our strategy for outing and recruiting in Scotland has come under quite a bit of scrutiny from Blades not only on here but on other sites therefore all things considered what with the much improved performances of these two players as well as the recruitment of a very useful looking Scougall makes this thread more than relevant and a good chance to gauge whether the general opinion has changed!.

I'm not one to carry on arguments and I have no preconceptions when posting my opinion. I tend to say my piece and move on so my reply was aimed at the thread topic and nothing more.

We've had crap players from all over the shop so for me, like I said, coming from Scotland makes no difference. What will the next one be, "David Weir - Scottish! Are all Scottish mangers Shite"?