'False 9'

[LichfieldBlade]

I hate this term, but I see nobody has really mentioned the fact we played for 45 minutes with no striker yesterday!

I can see this being particularly effective with the players we have at our disposal - Baxter, Murphy, Scougall, (hopefully) Diego and to a lesser extent, Flynn, plus Brandy and Cuvelier if/when they are back. Add to that the potential of Calvert-Lewin and Khan and that's a good few years of flair players being a large part of the squad.

Are we fans of the idea? Better than some of the striker options...!

 

[JohnDenver]

How very David Weir.

 

[SotonBlade]

How very Football Manager!

 

[Guesty]

I was going to ask actually in the wake of yesterday's game, where do people see Scougall playing?

The problem for me is this. Murphy and Flynn have been excellent recently playing wide in a four. So if you have a midfield of

Murphy - ? - ? - Flynn

I think it'd be suicide to have one of the middle men as Scougall based on his frame and his apparent style of play ( running with the ball, always looking to get forward)

So Scougall could play off the front man. But that's where Baxter plays, are we really willing to drop him?

The other option is to do what we did yesterday, which I assume was born of necessity given the injuries and the opposition, playing Scougall off Baxter. But I don't think Baxter has the physique or skillset to play upfront on his own.

So do we try and get all our exciting players on the pitch? Or do we find a system to play and rotate our players accordingly?

 

[FleaPitBlade]

Barca Don't play with a striker and they're not bad.

 

[shorehamview]

Barca Don't play with a striker and they're not bad.

When we sign Lionel Messi they can have Chris Porter. That seems a fair deal.

 

[thevoot]

Roma played a version of 4-6-0 for years, and were great to watch, and highly effective. I always wondered why nobody else has really tried it since.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/03/05/teams-of-the-decade-5-roma-2007/

 

[Blade]

It would be suicide to carry on with a midfield with Doyle in it. Scougall did more defensively in his short spell than doyle for years, defensively and offensively. From Sunday's cameo we simply have to find a role for him.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

It's nowt new and neither Barcelona nor Roma were pioneers of this idea.

Check Manchester City, 1954-55 and the so-called 'Revie Plan' which involved Don Revie as the Centre Forward dropping much deeper.

 

[sheffielder]

It's nowt new and neither Barcelona nor Roma were pioneers of this idea.

Check Manchester City, 1954-55 and the so-called 'Revie Plan' which involved Don Revie as the Centre Forward dropping much deeper.

In the 70's I was too young to remember, however I thought Ajax/Holland were also pioneers and famous for not playing a striker

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

What about us?

Not had a striker for 2 years

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

In the 70's I was too young to remember, however I thought Ajax/Holland were also pioneers and famous for not playing a striker

Probably the Hungarian team of the early 50's was the first to adapt the idea. The Revie plan was a reaction to that Hungarian side smashing the back doors out of England on a couple of occasions!

 

[Trigger Blade]

I hate this term, but I see nobody has really mentioned the fact we played for 45 minutes with no striker yesterday!

Trig Jnr (TY) made the point after Doyle got sent off that we were hardly worse off with 10 and no Porter. I felt that was a bit harsh but by the end, he had a point, we actually looked at our most threatening with pacy breaks in the 2nd half. Porter's a grafter, but he could never be accused of leaving defenders in his wake.

 

[SandyMcBlade]

I would have thought the answer was obvious, play your top scorer up front, a big lad who can head the ball and shoot.
I can't see many knocking him over or pushing him off the ball..
I give you Harry Maguire !!!!!

 

[pommpey]

Always think you need two front men. It keeps the attacking tempo up and busies the opposition defence sufficiently so the wingbacks/wide defenders aren't overly keen on pushing on to support an attack down the flanks. Baxter should play behind these and behind that should be the rest of the 'diamond' IMHO. Murphy/Flynn (or whoever out wide and if Scougall is up for it then him or Coady in front of the defence in the 'Doyle' role to attack their attack and break up the man with the ball in midfield or track their game-maker.

Playing one up front is a pointless exercise, and I don't think we have the scope to play 'six midfielders'.

pommpey

 

[blader]

We if we're to play people in their best position, we'd be left with a rather bizarre formation, like a 4-1-3-1-1 almost!

Brayford Maguire Collins hill
Coady
Flynn. Scougall Murphy
Baxter
Porter

Now ofcourse this is unlikely and not feasible as a formation. I can only think as suggested:

Brayford. Maguire. Collins. Hill
Coady. McGinn
Flynn. Murphy
Scougall
Baxter

Not sure again how this would work. Clough has a tough job fitting all these lads in.

 

[Kev Gee]

I suppose without Porter we dont really have a striker left at the club?
At least in the old skool sense of the word.

 

[SandyMcBlade]

What ever happend to Joe Ironsides ? and I've only seen Jake Eyre once but he scored a hat trick..

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Has everybody forgotten Paynter? I think It will be:-

Flynn McGinn Coady Murphy
Baxter Paynter

Scougall on the bench as a potential game-changing option

 

[blader]

Has everybody forgotten Paynter? I think It will be:-

Flynn McGinn Coady Murphy
Baxter Paynter

Scougall on the bench as a potential game-changing option

I agree that's what it will be. Don't see scougall starting much, probably for the remainder of this season

 

[Foxy]

Porter's a grafter, but he could never be accused of leaving defenders in his wake.

Except for the ones still thinking about reacting as he was running off in celebration!

I know the point you are trying to make though

 

[Silent Blade]

In the 70's I was too young to remember, however I thought Ajax/Holland were also pioneers and famous for not playing a striker

I recently watched the full match of the 1974 World Cup final on youtube recently and yes Holland played like that. They did win matches impressively during the tournament but the Germans had a better plan of making them ineffective. Cruyff was a world class player playing in a free role (often dropped back and trying to dictate the play) but the Germans dealt with him well. I always thought Holland keeper, Jongbloed was a strange type of keeper but I read a few years ago that Holland's best keeper in 1974 was Jan van Beveren but Cruyff didnt like him and refused to be in the same team as him. Rinus Michels decided to respect Cruyff's wishes which I thought was wrong

 

[Pinchy]

Scougall is a central midfielder. That's where he plays, always has done; That's where he should play for us, with Coady alongside him. Why do people want to immediately play a genuine talent out of position? Scoogs will create more in 9 minutes than McGinn in 90. John Harris didn't play young TC from Watford on the wing.

We've all asked for young players to be given a chance (most without justification). When we finally get a good 'un people want him on the bench! Bollocks to that: Play him!

 

[Guesty]

Scougall is a central midfielder. That's where he plays, always has done; That's where he should play for us, with Coady alongside him. Why do people want to immediately play a genuine talent out of position? Scoogs will create more in 9 minutes than McGinn in 90. John Harris didn't play young TC from Watford on the wing.

We've all asked for young players to be given a chance (most without justification). When we finally get a good 'un people want him on the bench! Bollocks to that: Play him!

Would you play Flynn, Murphy and Scougall all in a midfield four? Seems a tad cavalier.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Would you play Flynn, Murphy and Scougall all in a midfield four? Seems a tad cavalier.

I'll butt in; the opposition would have to score three to win

 

[Guesty]

I'll butt in; the opposition would have to score three to win

Funnily enough I was thinking about this at work and what better time to debut this tactics that against Peterborough, who lost 5-4 at the weekend?

 

[Pinchy]

Would you play Flynn, Murphy and Scougall all in a midfield four? Seems a tad cavalier.

Absolutely. Scougall might be lightweight but on Sunday he harried and pressed like a tiger. You could see after only 45 minutes that he's a bit special. I want special midfielders in midfield. I'm not a devotee of this rigid AM - DM combination at all. Both central midfielders should be able to do a bit of both.

 

[Borbokisfreekick]

Roma played a version of 4-6-0 for years, and were great to watch, and highly effective. I always wondered why nobody else has really tried it since.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/03/05/teams-of-the-decade-5-roma-2007/

Great find, I love that website.

I think very few teams do it because it needs a high level of positional rotation, and therefore intelligence.

I just don't think English players are intelligent enough to do it, they're coached from a young age to "stay in their position" and are pegion-holed into positions from a very early age. This restricts their tactical understanding, ability to play in different areas of the field and also to rotate freely in the flow of the game.

Also, its a perception thing. Some of our fans have gone mental when previous managers have played 1 up front, let alone without any strikers! Fans want to see their teams show an attacking purpose - having strikers up there shows that - regardless of whether you are actually tactically being more attacking.

 

[Silent Blade]

Great find, I love that website.

I think very few teams do it because it needs a high level of positional rotation, and therefore intelligence.

I just don't think English players are intelligent enough to do it, they're coached from a young age to "stay in their position" and are pegion-holed into positions from a very early age. This restricts their tactical understanding, ability to play in different areas of the field and also to rotate freely in the flow of the game.

Also, its a perception thing. Some of our fans have gone mental when previous managers have played 1 up front, let alone without any strikers! Fans want to see their teams show an attacking purpose - having strikers up there shows that - regardless of whether you are actually tactically being more attacking.

4-6-0 can work if you have the right quality players but not in the lower levels

 

[crucialkneeligaman]

Absolutely. Scougall might be lightweight but on Sunday he harried and pressed like a tiger. You could see after only 45 minutes that he's a bit special. I want special midfielders in midfield. I'm not a devotee of this rigid AM - DM combination at all. Both central midfielders should be able to do a bit of both.

Agree, expected him to be quick and skilful but his tackling ability really impressed.