[NOT HAPPENING] WARNOCK TO THE GRUNTERS??

[judge]

you are missing the point,win games = 3 points thus more points gained = better chance of staying up instead hoping that other clubs with knights of the realm within there club are going to be sacrificed.its what is done on the pitch that counts

Should he have gone all out attack when we were 12 points clear or before ? Because we were doing ok up to then ? Or does that 2/3rds of the season not count

 

[shorehamview]

West Ham fans always blather on about how Tevez wasn't really that effective and didn't have the impact people make out. His contribution was reckoned to be so poor they voted him as their player of the season.

I used to write a column for the Times' online section about United, and when I asked West Ham where our money was I received actual death threats. Most of them were not very well written, but I suppose when your chosen medium of communication is grunting and violence then actual writing in English is quite difficult.

 

[oldblade]

you are missing the point,win games = 3 points thus more points gained = better chance of staying up instead hoping that other clubs with knights of the realm within there club are going to be sacrificed.its what is done on the pitch that counts

But what happens on the pitch has to be fair. And it can only be fair if all clubs are playing to the same rules. That season they weren't. West Ham were using a world class player (two world class players for some of the season) that they were not supposed to be using. That gave them an advantage that they would not otherwise have had and hence the outcome of what happened 'on the pitch' was distorted.

The only way that a team can be unaffected by what other teams do is by winning every game. That has never happened in the history of the premier (or football) league. So every side in the league is to some degree dependent on what others do.

West Ham were competing in the same area of the table as us, so what they did had a far bigger impact on us than many other clubs in the league.

What they did gave them a big advantage and in my opinion they knew that. Tevez was an absolutely key player for them and one that enhanced their performances (just as the drugs enhanced Johnson's performances), otherwise they would not have gone to such lengths to ensure he played.

They gained a huge advantage over us by breaking the rules and we suffered for it, not them.

Sentiments like "its what is done on the pitch that counts" are utterly meaningless unless everyone is playing to the same rules. We might as well have a free for all. Why don't we play with 13 players. That way we could have 3 goalkeepers and no one would be able to score against us. After all, it's what happens on the pitch that counts.

A point is being missed but it isn't me who is missing it.

 

[oldblade]

West Ham fans always blather on about how Tevez wasn't really that effective and didn't have the impact people make out. His contribution was reckoned to be so poor they voted him as their player of the season.

I used to write a column for the Times' online section about United, and when I asked West Ham where our money was I received actual death threats. Most of them were not very well written, but I suppose when your chosen medium of communication is grunting and violence then actual writing in English is quite difficult.

If his contribution was so negligible, they would not have gone to such lengths to ensure he played for them.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

For what it's worth, here's NW's column from today's Independent:

I suppose people may have been surprised when my name was linked to the Sheffield Wednesday job this week, what with my being a supporter and former manager of Sheffield United.

But while fans never swap allegiance, once you are in the game you have to take professional decisions. Jamie Carragher, Ian Rush, Robbie Fowler and Michael Owen all supported Everton as boys, but it didn’t stop them becoming great players for Liverpool. So when Wednesday’s chairman, Milan Mandaric, phoned me last Monday and told me he believed I could come in on a short-term contract and keep the club up, my being a Blade wasn’t a problem to me.

However, I knew it might be a problem for a lot of Wednesday fans and my first response was to tell Milan it would be pretty much impossible. But he insisted and said it would be all right, so I thought about it a bit more.

Milan has tried to hire me before, and I’ve been offered the Wednesday job before. On both occasions – once before I managed United, once after, I was working elsewhere and happy to stay. This time I was available, and looking for work.

I’ve enjoyed my time out, being involved with TalkSPORT and BT, but when Crystal Palace spoke to me about helping them out I realised I missed the cut-and-thrust of management, the buzz of the dressing room on match-day, the day-in, day-out working with players. I don’t miss the agents, the contracts, the transfers, and I enjoy having summer off, but a short-term deal, getting a club over the line for promotion, or saving them from relegation, did appeal.

I would have gone to Palace – just to the end of the season to give them time to find a long-term manager – had Tony Pulis not changed his mind. So Milan was knocking at an open door. I was also encouraged by how many Wednesday fans, once the news broke that I was a contender, were in favour of me coming in. It was about 60-70 per cent. I’m not kidding myself they suddenly liked me, but they thought I would keep their club up. I even spoke to Michael Vaughan, the former England cricket captain and a big Wednesdayite, in Australia, and he was very positive. Indeed, had Wednesday lost against Leicester on Tuesday I would probably be preparing to face Billy Davies and Nottingham Forest at Hillsborough today.

However, Stuart Gray steered Wednesday to a terrific win and that gave myself and Milan a bit more time to step back and look at the situation. While there had been supportive fans there were also some noisy, critical ones – Sky Sports had rounded up some outside the ground. It made good TV, I guess, though they would have had better analysis speaking to people at the Sheffield Star, or Radio Sheffield.

You always get critics – I had a hard core at Bramall Lane who were never happy – but with my Blades affiliations it was obvious I wouldn’t get any honeymoon period. If we lost the first couple of games the atmosphere would have quickly turned negative and that can affect the players.

It didn’t help when the papers and Sky dug up an interview I did in a magazine when I was at Sheffield United. When asked what I would do if I ever became Wednesday manager I said I’d buy bad players, adding “the current lot would do”, get them relegated and then retire to Cornwall and drive my tractor.

What was not mentioned was the context. It was at a function before a Steel City derby when I was sitting with Wednesday goalkeeper Kevin Pressman and some of his team-mates. It was part of the banter and they all laughed when I said that. Of course, it ruins the story if you mention that.

While thinking it over, I looked back on a conversation I had at a charity dinner in Birmingham recently with Steve Bruce and Sam Allardyce. Steve, a Geordie, had managed Sunderland while Sam, an ex-Sunderland player, had managed Newcastle. They both said how difficult it had been managing the rival club. And I remembered how Spurs fans never took to George Graham because of his Arsenal background, even after he won them a trophy. So in the end I spoke to Milan late Thursday night and we decided we’d put the story to bed yesterday so Stuart and Lee Bullen could get on with preparing the team for Forest without distractions.

 

[Jonboy60]

The thing is, many teams (IMO) have probably done stuff that's a bit iffy, albeit in different degrees and knowingly/ unknowingly affected other clubs. The fact that west ham cheated in itself wrankles, but not half as much as the hierarchy of the premiership knowing w/ham cheated did fuck all about it. Particularly that low life piece of shit that is scudamore. Bent over backwards to help that other useless twat Brooking and his team. Agree with a few on here that the promised land that is the premiership can go fuck itself. Rotten to the core, greedy, contemptuous, dellusional cretins. Feel better now UTB

 

[sothall blade]

But what happens on the pitch has to be fair. And it can only be fair if all clubs are playing to the same rules. That season they weren't. West Ham were using a world class player (two world class players for some of the season) that they were not supposed to be using. That gave them an advantage that they would not otherwise have had and hence the outcome of what happened 'on the pitch' was distorted.

The only way that a team can be unaffected by what other teams do is by winning every game. That has never happened in the history of the premier (or football) league. So every side in the league is to some degree dependent on what others do.

West Ham were competing in the same area of the table as us, so what they did had a far bigger impact on us than many other clubs in the league.

What they did gave them a big advantage and in my opinion they knew that. Tevez was an absolutely key player for them and one that enhanced their performances (just as the drugs enhanced Johnson's performances), otherwise they would not have gone to such lengths to ensure he played.

They gained a huge advantage over us by breaking the rules and we suffered for it, not them.

Sentiments like "its what is done on the pitch that counts" are utterly meaningless unless everyone is playing to the same rules. We might as well have a free for all. Why don't we play with 13 players. That way we could have 3 goalkeepers and no one would be able to score against us. After all, it's what happens on the pitch that counts.

A point is being missed but it isn't me who is missing it.

you mention winning every game in your post,i am sure aresnal,s invincables of a few seasons ago were really worried about what other teams were doing in their undefeated season ! they concentrated on their job in hand,true they drew some games but did,nt other teams have world class players ? so it is whats done on the pitch that counts and is not a sentiment its fact.
how many times have you seen fergie time,goal that was scored but spurs v man u,a yard over the line but not given, SUFC have not got the monopoly on unjust decisions

 

[oldblade]

you mention winning every game in your post,i am sure aresnal,s invincables of a few seasons ago were really worried about what other teams were doing in their undefeated season ! they concentrated on their job in hand,true they drew some games but did,nt other teams have world class players ? so it is whats done on the pitch that counts and is not a sentiment its fact

Arsenal and those other teams did have world class players, but their services were not obtained by off the pitch rule breaking. On the pitch performances are affected by off the pitch goings on and it becomes an unfair competition if clubs play to different rules.

Arsenal were undefeated, but they did draw games and thus were dependent on what other sides did. If one of those sides had finished above Arsenal after having illegally gained the services of a better player than they had, I think the fallout would have been quite spectacular.

I find it incredible that any supporter of Sheffield United can try and claim that what West Ham did was not the main reason for our relegation. The subsequent tribunal and £18 or £20 million settlement with West Ham would tend to suggest that what happened on the pitch was hugely distorted by the off field rule breaking that went on.

Do you think Ben Johnson should have retained his 100 metres gold medal? After all, it's what takes place on the pitch (or track) that counts.

 

[oldblade]

how many times have you seen fergie time,goal that was scored but spurs v man u,a yard over the line but not given, SUFC have not got the monopoly on unjust decisions

Those examples are down to errors by officials not down to deliberate rule breaking by a club. They have no relevance at all to what we are talking about.

We were on the receiving end of many poor decisions that cost us points, but that is an entirely different issue to being disadvantaged by the Tevez affair.