Stadium Development

[jt64]

If you think Bramall Lane is poor and the kop a shithole. why do you go to games or should I say do you go at all.

Yes. Just not in the Kop, as it's a shithole

 

[YES Blade]

Which parts are poor ,other from the lack of covered facilities on the kop , concourses and toilets on the other stands are first rate . corporate facilities are very very good .veiw from seats first class ,other than kop and kop corner .at the end of the day it's a football ground not a 4 star hotel ,oops we have one of those aswell

The kop corner stand is an eye sore, same with the portacabin thing in the other corner of the Kop.

Leg room on John Street is poor and the viewing angle wasn’t great from memory (not sat there for a few years).

South Stand is ok at best, but it’s looking it’s age now.

Can’t comment on Lane End as I’ve not been on there for over 10 years.

Corporate facilities might be good, but when we’ve been in the Premier League they sell out before the season starts. We’re losing revenue due to not having enough to meet demand.

 

[Bladeloyal]

The kop corner stand is an eye sore, same with the portacabin thing in the other corner of the Kop.

Leg room on John Street is poor and the viewing angle wasn’t great from memory (not sat there for a few years).

South Stand is ok at best, but it’s looking it’s age now.

Can’t comment on Lane End as I’ve not been on there for over 10 years.

Corporate facilities might be good, but when we’ve been in the Premier League they sell out before the season starts. We’re losing revenue due to not having enough to meet demand.

I'm 6 foot and 14 stone and john street is fine ,yes Stevie Wonder did the pucka ,the media centre cost a hell of a lot of money it's no portacabin , I'm not sure what people expect .

 

[Sean Thornton]

I'm 6 foot and 14 stone and john street is fine ,yes Stevie Wonder did the pucka ,the media centre cost a hell of a lot of money it's no portacabin ,




I'm not sure what people expect .

Other people not to use facts?

 

[YES Blade]

I'm 6 foot and 14 stone and john street is fine ,yes Stevie Wonder did the pucka ,the media centre cost a hell of a lot of money it's no portacabin , I'm not sure what people expect .

I’m aware it isn’t an actual portacabin, it just looks very shit and a typical Bramall Lane bodge job add on.

I’ve been to plenty of away grounds where the away end is better than the home ends at Bramall Lane, which says it all.

 

[Bladeloyal]

I’m aware it isn’t an actual portacabin, it just looks very shit and a typical Bramall Lane bodge job add on.

I’ve been to plenty of away grounds where the away end is better than the home ends at Bramall Lane, which says it all.

Well haters will be haters ,frankly I love it

 

[reedy63]

My comment is not daft your comment is daft why worry about the Ground.
Yes Blade you have to understand the club are not in a position to afford any development.
So dont hold your breath nowts going to happen. until we get new owners with very deep pockets.

 

[Sean Thornton]

My comment is not daft your comment is daft why worry about the Ground.
Yes Blade you have to understand the club are not in a position to afford any development.
So dont hold your breath nowts going to happen. until we get new owners with very deep pockets.

So many willing to call him the only skint Saudi prince whilst at the same time berating him for not spending millions on the ground.

 

[JJBlade]

Only if the team is relatively successful.

The Stadium of Light has a capacity of 48,707. It was opened in 1997 with a capacity of 42,000 but Sunderland had just been relegated from the Premier League. They yo-yoed for a the next decade so they're a good case study.

View attachment 195132
The season after they did well, attendances went up. When they did badly, including getting relegated, attendances drop. Same goes for any team (see also: Leeds United)

United could probably fill a 37-40k stadium with realistic ticket pricing if we were competitive in the Premier League (ie not abysmal as we have been for our last two visits). However, 32k is more than enough in the Championship.

I agree 40,000 is realistic based on the fact that if a certain game warranted it in years gone by 40,000 wouldn't have been a problem at all.

But where are the additional 12,000 going to come from today? they haven't got any loyalty points.
This is what Sean Thornton and others can't seem to understand with their moronic comments and even more moronic pictures of meerkats aimed at me.

He doesn't understand or more likely doesn't want to understand that I am not talking about myself because it doesn't meet his own agenda to argue the toss with anyone who disagrees with him.

If I want a ticket I'll buy one, no problem. I am talking about thousands of people who the club should be aiming for that are prevented from attending because of the moronic way our loyalty points system and one ticket only policy has been set up.

It is a disaster waiting to happen for a club without any form of waiting list for tickets because they've been mainly shit for at least 60 years.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Been thinking due to other ticket threads.. what is our actual capacity in fans on seats?

32k is my thinking of every seat filled but then recently I've had 31.7k in my head as a 'sell out' but noticing even more seats don't go on sale?

Yes it doesn't matter as such but it does support the idea of ONE day the ground needing redevelopment. Not saying we'd fill out 40k a week in the PL but more available/easy to buy seats would get better crowds IMO.

Growing the fanbase also isn't a bad thing either...

 

[Sean Thornton]

I agree 40,000 is realistic based on the fact that if a certain game warranted it in years gone by 40,000 wouldn't have been a problem at all.

But where are the additional 12,000 going to come from today? they haven't got any loyalty points.
This is what Sean Thornton and others can't seem to understand with their moronic comments and even more moronic pictures of meerkats aimed at me.

He doesn't understand or more likely doesn't want to understand that I am not talking about myself because it doesn't meet his own agenda to argue the toss with anyone who disagrees with him.

If I want a ticket I'll buy one, no problem. I am talking about thousands of people who the club should be aiming for that are prevented from attending because of the moronic way our loyalty points system and one ticket only policy has been set up.

It is a disaster waiting to happen for a club without any form of waiting list for tickets because they've been mainly shit for at least 60 years.

Ahem. Leicester and Southampton attendances. Did you not see that plate you were handed your arse on?

Your grasp of both facts and reality is tenuous. Years gone by? What was our last 40k gate. It’s 2024, not the early 70’s.

The meerkat post foretold you coming flying in over attendances and capacity. Because you post on nothing else A huge gripe for someone who hasn’t been a regular for years.

Good to see people getting tickets despite having to fight their way through the system. Odd that you claim it can’t be done when demand is for a few thousand less. Maybe some are as apathetic as you.

 

[YES Blade]

My comment is not daft your comment is daft why worry about the Ground.
Yes Blade you have to understand the club are not in a position to afford any development.
So dont hold your breath nowts going to happen. until we get new owners with very deep pockets.

Read the thread, I’ve literally said that it’s not going to happen anytime soon!

 

[reedy63]

Yes Blade, I suppose you are happy in the way The Blades are playing up to now.
SO nothing to moan about then am i correct. But you chose to moan about Our Ground.
I cant be arsed looking back through your comments on here.
But I will say you have the right to have an opinion. I just dont agree with some of them.
Agee to disagree if you get the drift.

 

[JJBlade]

Ahem. Leicester and Southampton attendances. Did you not see that plate you were handed your arse on?

Your grasp of both facts and reality is tenuous. Years gone by? What was our last 40k gate. It’s 2024, not the early 70’s.

The meerkat post foretold you coming flying in over attendances and capacity. Because you post on nothing else A huge gripe for someone who hasn’t been a regular for years.

Good to see people getting tickets despite having to fight their way through the system. Odd that you claim it can’t be done when demand is for a few thousand less. Maybe some are as apathetic as you.

My post quite clearly states that in generations gone by 40,000 would not have been and wasn't a problem IF A CERTAIN GAME WARRANTED IT.
There have been few and far between games that warranted it, but the fans were there on the odd occasion when it did warrant it.

Our loyalty points system and one ticket per person policy is fucking stupid, and has meant that even a Premier League Sheffield United sitting 4th and 5th in the Premier League a couple of years ago couldn't sell out.

Yes, it is certain peoples own fault, but this is the way that the casual and half arsed support of every club is, but at least the casual half arsed support of every other club in the country with empty seats can get in along with their friends, dad, son, brother and Uncle Tom Cobley an all.

Even Warnocks hoofers got more than 32,000 on several occasions not so long ago, the fact that Wilders very good Premier League team couldn't tells us something is wrong

 

[Sheffsteel]

Been thinking due to other ticket threads.. what is our actual capacity in fans on seats?

32k is my thinking of every seat filled but then recently I've had 31.7k in my head as a 'sell out' but noticing even more seats don't go on sale?

Yes it doesn't matter as such but it does support the idea of ONE day the ground needing redevelopment. Not saying we'd fill out 40k a week in the PL but more available/easy to buy seats would get better crowds IMO.

Growing the fanbase also isn't a bad thing either...

When the BLUT corner was finished out capacity was 32,609.
The modern all seater record is 32,604, which was the official attendance against Wigan in 2007.

When we returned to the PL in 2020, PL rules meant we had to increase the press box area losing seats in the south stand
We also took out seats for a disabled area, bringing our capacity down to 32,050.
That season our highest attendance was a sell out against Man Utd of 32,024.

Last season in the Premier league official handbook each club has to provide it's current stadium capacity
and for Sheff Utd it gave the official capacity as just over 31,700, so another decrease from the 32K.
Last season our highest attendance was 31,543 against Man Utd, which apparently was another official sell out.

It wouldn't surprise me if our capacity was currently 31K, then when they are sold we can apply to SAG for extra seats to be released.
When they are sold we can ask SAG to release further seats. So basically get near the 31.7K figure we need to sell out well before the match
to give SAG time to have their meeting and consider our request.

 

[The Fox]

The discussion on this subject goes round in circles.
Just out on interest I've looked at cost per seat data ( new stadia where demolition isn't required) ,tried to figure extra capacity and proportion of new capacity utilisation etc and in my own head it's hard to make a case.
I've often thought that ground improvement, capacity improvement etc can only be reality if it's almost a by-product of commercial development providing non matchday income.
No doubt we'll still be discussing this topic for a few years yet .

 

[Sheffsteel]

The discussion on this subject goes round in circles.

Agree.....think most people are giving their idealistic opinion, like they are playing a computer game.

Where as the reality is that any expansion must have a business case that's going to give a return on investment in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[Crafty Blade]

It stands to reason that a bigger and improved ground growing attendances. It's supply and demand. Tickets would naturally become relatively cheaper. The club would automatically look at ways to sell the extra seats and address factors preventing that, such as daft ticketing policies, to make it easier for new and casual fans to buy tickets.

The improved facilities make the matchday experience better, attracting new fans and old fans back. You can afford to give away fans a bigger allocation, increasing the overall attendances at games.

There is no downside to growing the fanbase or attendances, with increased associated matchday income, merch sales, better commercial and sponsorship opportunities. The club obviously see the stadium as an asset that can make additional revenue by hosting other events, and an increased capacity enhances the opportunities for this further.

It is not something that can be sat on for another decade or so "because 32k is enough for us now" while the ground falls behind others. See S6 for that. Forward planning and ambition is required.

 

[Digs blade]

When the BLUT corner was finished out capacity was 32,609.
The modern all seater record is 32,604, which was the official attendance against Wigan in 2007.

When we returned to the PL in 2020, PL rules meant we had to increase the press box area losing seats in the south stand
We also took out seats for a disabled area, bringing our capacity down to 32,050.
That season our highest attendance was a sell out against Man Utd of 32,024.

Last season in the Premier league official handbook each club has to provide it's current stadium capacity
and for Sheff Utd it gave the official capacity as just over 31,700, so another decrease from the 32K.
Last season our highest attendance was 31,543 against Man Utd, which apparently was another official sell out.

It wouldn't surprise me if our capacity was currently 31K, then when they are sold we can apply to SAG for extra seats to be released.
When they are sold we can ask SAG to release further seats. So basically get near the 31.7K figure we need to sell out well before the match
to give SAG time to have their meeting and consider our request.

You’re probably right but does any other club have to go through these phases, if not why us?

Please sir can we have some more

 

[Sheffsteel]

You’re probably right but does any other club have to go through these phases, if not why us?

Please sir can we have some more

Assume there are some seats that are a higher risk than others. For example....those the closest to the away fans and the front few rows of the BLUT.

Sounds like SAG are loving the power and trying to justify their existence by having meetings to decide if they can keep drip feeding additional seats.

 

[Harry's Game]

Is Mike Macdonald still looking at proposed sites for a new Stadium near Orgreave and Waverley ?

 

[The Fox]

From a purely financial point I suppose the club have to look at the opportunity cost.
If we rebuilt the kop for example with a better facilities and increased the capacity from 10k to 15k , we're rebuilding a whole stand for 5k seats. If half of those are used for many matches and all taken for sellouts the cost per average seat gain goes up hugely as we're probably only getting revenue from the extra 2to 3k seats per match .
Doing nothing means we sell probably 80% of the new capacity at no cost.

It's a head scratcher and probably why it's been cheaper for clubs to build entire new stadiums .

 

[NuddysGloves]

From a purely financial point I suppose the club have to look at the opportunity cost.
If we rebuilt the kop for example with a better facilities and increased the capacity from 10k to 15k , we're rebuilding a whole stand for 5k seats. If half of those are used for many matches and all taken for sellouts the cost per average seat gain goes up hugely as we're probably only getting revenue from the extra 2to 3k seats per match .
Doing nothing means we sell probably 80% of the new capacity at no cost.

It's a head scratcher and probably why it's been cheaper for clubs to build entire new stadiums .

If they rebuilt the kop with better facilities then they could, should and would charge more per ticket and get increased revenue from all the seats.

 

[Sean Thornton]

If they rebuilt the kop with better facilities then they could, should and would charge more per ticket and get increased revenue from all the seats.

But the likelihood is that there would be significant calls for a standing section which some would expect the tickets to cost less and could well draw supporters from more expensive parts of the ground. Costing money. The calculation required to estimate the financial effect are hugely complex. The financing of any infrastructure changes will also affect cash flow, which in non PL years, where there is a far greater chance of profits. Then of course there’s the view of many that non ST tickets are too expensive already.

 

[The Fox]

But the likelihood is that there would be significant calls for a standing section which some would expect the tickets to cost less and could well draw supporters from more expensive parts of the ground. Costing money. The calculation required to estimate the financial effect are hugely complex. The financing of any infrastructure changes will also affect cash flow, which in non PL years, where there is a far greater chance of profits. Then of course there’s the view of many that non ST tickets are too expensive already.

Very much the so , even with some mental estimates and bucket arithmatic it's hard to see the financial case .
It's why I'm led to conclude that the ground improvement/capacity increase has to form part of a commercial development rather simply matchday revenue.
For now the ground is big enough , decent enough and full enough even though we'd all like bigger and better .

 

[NuddysGloves]

But the likelihood is that there would be significant calls for a standing section which some would expect the tickets to cost less and could well draw supporters from more expensive parts of the ground. Costing money. The calculation required to estimate the financial effect are hugely complex. The financing of any infrastructure changes will also affect cash flow, which in non PL years, where there is a far greater chance of profits. Then of course there’s the view of many that non ST tickets are too expensive already.

I wasn't saying we should do it, I was merely pointing out that it isn't quite as black and white as increasing the capacity by 5,000 seats doesn't mean it would only be additional income from those 5,000 seats.

However drawing supporters from more expensive parts of the ground only costs money if those seats aren't then filled. If we're hypothetically saying some current fans may leave their expensive seats to take up standing tickets we can also hypothetically say that some new fans will want to buy the expensive seated tickets.

 

[Sheffsteel]

If they rebuilt the kop with better facilities then they could, should and would charge more per ticket and get increased revenue from all the seats.

Disagree, think there should be choice regards admission prices.

We should always strive to have an area (Kop) where prices are affordable but the facilities are basic, that’s means removing the pillars and having kiosks, toilets and bars under cover protected from the wind and rain.

Then we need better but more expensive faculties in the South stand at slightly higher cost. Then we also need to cater for our rich fans who don’t mind spending £80 a ticket in fancy executive seats.

Think McCabes cheap Kop bolt on plan provided almost everything, an extra 3,200 seats at the back of the Kop, no pilars with a fully enclosed concourse under cover for a relatively cheap cost so prices could remain affordable.

The new South stand plan was giving us an extra 6K seats taking our capacity to over 41K. The thinking behind the South stand expansion wasn’t so much to increase capacity, it was to improve the face of the club regards having a private underground car park, larger club shop, larger ticket office, larger improved changing rooms, better media rooms/ facilities, chairman’s boardroom and massively increasing and improvong executive VIP areas.

All this would be done behind the current stands taking just 1 season and 2 Summers to complete, with both the Kop and South still open on math days whilst building work takes place.

The only other cost effective option is to sell both Bramall Lane and Hillsboro and build a new 50K stadium somewhere off Parkway but I’d prefer is to remain at BL.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I wasn't saying we should do it, I was merely pointing out that it isn't quite as black and white as increasing the capacity by 5,000 seats doesn't mean it would only be additional income from those 5,000 seats.

However drawing supporters from more expensive parts of the ground only costs money if those seats aren't then filled. If we're hypothetically saying some current fans may leave their expensive seats to take up standing tickets we can also hypothetically say that some new fans will want to buy the expensive seated tickets.

I didn’t mean to be critical and should have, as you have, raised the probability of new fans. Which is likely the only way it would work.

 

[Digs blade]

Assume there are some seats that are a higher risk than others. For example....those the closest to the away fans and the front few rows of the BLUT.

Sounds like SAG are loving the power and trying to justify their existence by having meetings to decide if they can keep drip feeding additional seats.

I’d accept that to a certain point if it was happening up and down the country.

I can’t accept that only BDTBL has high risk seats and I’d love someone to explain specifically what is high risk about them.

We’ve been housing home fans in the BLUT for years now and I can’t recall a single incident

 

[Stevo71]

I’d accept that to a certain point if it was happening up and down the country.

I can’t accept that only BDTBL has high risk seats and I’d love someone to explain specifically what is high risk about them.

We’ve been housing home fans in the BLUT for years now and I can’t recall a single incident

What about "pissgate"?