Blades Manifesto 2024

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

If that is the route you wish to take, then that is fair. I personally have not the slightest interst in NFL, Rugby, Taylor Swift etc. We are all different and if this is your vision, blocking out some supporters then good luck.
It would probably be better (and cheaper) to move to the Sheffield Arena for the vision you portray.

My vision would be to have a club with a sporting programme, facilities and training complex that are the envy of the world....

 

[petcharlie]

My vision would be to have a club with a sporting programme, facilities and training complex that are the envy of the world....

that would be nice mate but don't build your hopes up to much yet mate

 

[bikerblade]

My vision would be to have a club with a sporting programme, facilities and training complex that are the envy of the world....

So again, you would happily price out regular fans to facilitate NFL, Rugby, Concerts etc? There is nothing wrong with this, cold hard economics, no emotion or connection.
How much of a % increase do you think ST holders could / should pay? 20%, 30%, 40%+
Would you accept a match day attendance of say 18k as long as the other revenue streams made up for it?

Personally I want to maximise the crowd on match day, make the toilets better and more of them. If that costs another 1 or 2£ then so be it.

 

[YES Blade]

Don’t understand why fans are dripping about facilities? You are going to a football match. That’s about two hours, once week, unless Sky TV change the dates/times at short notice?
Enjoy your Bovril, and eat before you go to the match.

I really can’t understand why some people think it’s ok for a football club to provide shit facilities. In what other industry would customers accept shit facilities at a premium price?

It’s as if some fans would rather have shit facilities because it’s somehow not proper football if the stadium is actually nice!

 

[YES Blade]

So again, you would happily price out regular fans to facilitate NFL, Rugby, Concerts etc? There is nothing wrong with this, cold hard economics, no emotion or connection.
How much of a % increase do you think ST holders could / should pay? 20%, 30%, 40%+
Would you accept a match day attendance of say 18k as long as the other revenue streams made up for it?

Personally I want to maximise the crowd on match day, make the toilets better and more of them. If that costs another 1 or 2£ then so be it.

Surely having extra revenue from NFL, Taylor Swift etc. helps keep ticket prices lower? How does it contribute to pricing out regular fans?

 

[I should coco]

Good post and I agree with the sentiment however think we're in the minority.

Unfortunately most fans are only interested in short term instant success, so they'd prefer the budget to go towards the squad.
You can imagine the sarcasm on here.....we should all feel proud having some of the best facilities in the country to watch league 1 football.
Think many believe infrastructure expenditure should come out of the owners own budget.

Regards your points
1: Many say "let's build a new single tier Kop", however unless we great increase the height, a steeper rake results in a reduced capacity. They also say give people more leg room, so again would reduce the current Kop capacity. Not sure any investor would spend money to deliberately reduce income.

Also the massive issue with building a totally new Kop is it would take 2 years to complete, so capacity would reduce to 20K.
What do you say to people who have been season ticket holders on the Kop for decades?
Once people get into the habit of finding other things to do on a Saturday and watching us on Sky for 2 years, will they be keen to return.
So building a brand new Kop would piss off so many loyal fans and could really damage our fanbase.

2: People have mentioned the top class facilities at Spurs, the fancy conference facilities at Leeds.
Many have said we don't need them but I think there should be choice.
So although the Kop is the worse part of the stadium, one could argue the priority is the South stand with underground car park.
My view is that in reality the South stand represents the face of the club.
So imagine improved luxurious directors box, a string of state of the art executive boxes, a top class restaurant, much bigger and improved
changing rooms, a massive state of the art media centre, top class facilities for journalists.
People with influence would be so impressed and look forward to visits to Bramall Lane, it would greatly improve our reputation in the game.

A new top tier on the South stand would give us an extra 6000 seats.
These could be used if we decided to build a brand new Kop, capacity would be 26K, so all ST holders would be protected.

Regards expanding our support or encouraging ethnic minorities.
We could have a scheme where we give away 2000 tickets each match to young children in the South Yorkshire area
and to schools with a high level of minorities, basically give free tickets to kids that would not normally attend any of our matches.

3: I remember when the BLUT was finished McCabe said that it's great idea because there's a level of flexibility regards how many tickets are allocated to away fans. Remember the 1st game the BLUT was used, we gave Liverpool 3K in the bottom tier and an extra 1.5K in the BLUT.
With an increased capacity if there was away demand we could give them 4.5K tickets instead of the usual 2.9K.

4: Was impressed with the fanzone area at the side of the Kop and it made me think there should be more initiatives like this to
offer additional entertainment and attractions.

5: I'm still on the fence regards women's football because I don't think it can ever be universally profit making.
Tickets are £5 to £10 and crowds in the top flight increased from a 1,924 average to a 5,387 average (which is still lower than league 2 level)
However the main reason for the large increase was 2 clubs, Man Utd and Arsenal.
Man Utd's average increased from 3K to 10K and Arsenal average increased from 3K to 15K
however for those 2 clubs there are 10's of 1000's that can't get a ticket to watch the mens team
so if you're unable to watch the mens team then the next best might be to watch the womens team.

I remember Emma Hayes once saying giving away free tickets and charging £5....is showing the product in a bad light.
She suggested prices were increased but then it would make you wonder if attendances would drop to non league level.

A good reasoned and well argued response.

That won't catch on around here.

 

[I should coco]

If that is the route you wish to take, then that is fair. I personally have not the slightest interst in NFL, Rugby, Taylor Swift etc. We are all different and if this is your vision, blocking out some supporters then good luck.
It would probably be better (and cheaper) to move to the Sheffield Arena for the vision you portray.

I think Taylor Swift will be playing the 200k seater Mars Arena, before she ever thinks about sunny Sheff.

 

[SGBlade]

Good post and I agree with the sentiment however think we're in the minority.

Unfortunately most fans are only interested in short term instant success, so they'd prefer the budget to go towards the squad.
You can imagine the sarcasm on here.....we should all feel proud having some of the best facilities in the country to watch league 1 football.
Think many believe infrastructure expenditure should come out of the owners own budget.

Regards your points
1: Many say "let's build a new single tier Kop", however unless we great increase the height, a steeper rake results in a reduced capacity. They also say give people more leg room, so again would reduce the current Kop capacity. Not sure any investor would spend money to deliberately reduce income.

Also the massive issue with building a totally new Kop is it would take 2 years to complete, so capacity would reduce to 20K.
What do you say to people who have been season ticket holders on the Kop for decades?
Once people get into the habit of finding other things to do on a Saturday and watching us on Sky for 2 years, will they be keen to return.
So building a brand new Kop would piss off so many loyal fans and could really damage our fanbase.

2: People have mentioned the top class facilities at Spurs, the fancy conference facilities at Leeds.
Many have said we don't need them but I think there should be choice.
So although the Kop is the worse part of the stadium, one could argue the priority is the South stand with underground car park.
My view is that in reality the South stand represents the face of the club.
So imagine improved luxurious directors box, a string of state of the art executive boxes, a top class restaurant, much bigger and improved
changing rooms, a massive state of the art media centre, top class facilities for journalists.
People with influence would be so impressed and look forward to visits to Bramall Lane, it would greatly improve our reputation in the game.

A new top tier on the South stand would give us an extra 6000 seats.
These could be used if we decided to build a brand new Kop, capacity would be 26K, so all ST holders would be protected.

Regards expanding our support or encouraging ethnic minorities.
We could have a scheme where we give away 2000 tickets each match to young children in the South Yorkshire area
and to schools with a high level of minorities, basically give free tickets to kids that would not normally attend any of our matches.

3: I remember when the BLUT was finished McCabe said that it's great idea because there's a level of flexibility regards how many tickets are allocated to away fans. Remember the 1st game the BLUT was used, we gave Liverpool 3K in the bottom tier and an extra 1.5K in the BLUT.
With an increased capacity if there was away demand we could give them 4.5K tickets instead of the usual 2.9K.

4: Was impressed with the fanzone area at the side of the Kop and it made me think there should be more initiatives like this to
offer additional entertainment and attractions.

5: I'm still on the fence regards women's football because I don't think it can ever be universally profit making.
Tickets are £5 to £10 and crowds in the top flight increased from a 1,924 average to a 5,387 average (which is still lower than league 2 level)
However the main reason for the large increase was 2 clubs, Man Utd and Arsenal.
Man Utd's average increased from 3K to 10K and Arsenal average increased from 3K to 15K
however for those 2 clubs there are 10's of 1000's that can't get a ticket to watch the mens team
so if you're unable to watch the mens team then the next best might be to watch the womens team.

I remember Emma Hayes once saying giving away free tickets and charging £5....is showing the product in a bad light.
She suggested prices were increased but then it would make you wonder if attendances would drop to non league level.

Yeah very fair points mate. The kop for me feels like a priority because it’s what generates the atmosphere but I take your points on the logistics of the whole thing. I don’t know enough about the spread of our season tickets to know if it’s reasonable to ask people move elsewhere in the ground for a couple of years. perhaps it does need to be a south stand upper extension first.

I’m mainly advocating, as you are, some long-term thinking regarding any investment that’s made in the club. We’ve seen what happened with Wednesday when available capital is plowed into the first team alone. To be fair, their last five years could have looked very different if they’d won that playoff final v Huddersfield. But that’s the point - it’s just gambling. The best way to get sustained success on the pitch (which I’m sure is what everyone on this forum wants) is through investing in the infrastructure of the club and slowly increasing the fanbase. The brentford example is boring but I doubt any of their fans are complaining that they had to spend an extra couple of years in the champ to get to where they are now.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Surely having extra revenue from NFL, Taylor Swift etc. helps keep ticket prices lower? How does it contribute to pricing out regular fans?

I've given up mate. Like your excellent previous post, it seems a majority of our fans would rather keep the rustic feel of going to BDTBL as it keeps away those pesky part-timers and fair weather fans..

Who wants increased revenue streams so we can buy better players and increased diverse fan base which attracts more sponsors...

As I said a few weeks back, we get the club our fan base deserves and we don't deserve nice things...

 

[YES Blade]

Good post and I agree with the sentiment however think we're in the minority.

Unfortunately most fans are only interested in short term instant success, so they'd prefer the budget to go towards the squad.
You can imagine the sarcasm on here.....we should all feel proud having some of the best facilities in the country to watch league 1 football.
Think many believe infrastructure expenditure should come out of the owners own budget.

Regards your points
1: Many say "let's build a new single tier Kop", however unless we great increase the height, a steeper rake results in a reduced capacity. They also say give people more leg room, so again would reduce the current Kop capacity. Not sure any investor would spend money to deliberately reduce income.

Also the massive issue with building a totally new Kop is it would take 2 years to complete, so capacity would reduce to 20K.
What do you say to people who have been season ticket holders on the Kop for decades?
Once people get into the habit of finding other things to do on a Saturday and watching us on Sky for 2 years, will they be keen to return.
So building a brand new Kop would piss off so many loyal fans and could really damage our fanbase.

2: People have mentioned the top class facilities at Spurs, the fancy conference facilities at Leeds.
Many have said we don't need them but I think there should be choice.
So although the Kop is the worse part of the stadium, one could argue the priority is the South stand with underground car park.
My view is that in reality the South stand represents the face of the club.
So imagine improved luxurious directors box, a string of state of the art executive boxes, a top class restaurant, much bigger and improved
changing rooms, a massive state of the art media centre, top class facilities for journalists.
People with influence would be so impressed and look forward to visits to Bramall Lane, it would greatly improve our reputation in the game.

A new top tier on the South stand would give us an extra 6000 seats.
These could be used if we decided to build a brand new Kop, capacity would be 26K, so all ST holders would be protected.

Regards expanding our support or encouraging ethnic minorities.
We could have a scheme where we give away 2000 tickets each match to young children in the South Yorkshire area
and to schools with a high level of minorities, basically give free tickets to kids that would not normally attend any of our matches.

3: I remember when the BLUT was finished McCabe said that it's great idea because there's a level of flexibility regards how many tickets are allocated to away fans. Remember the 1st game the BLUT was used, we gave Liverpool 3K in the bottom tier and an extra 1.5K in the BLUT.
With an increased capacity if there was away demand we could give them 4.5K tickets instead of the usual 2.9K.

4: Was impressed with the fanzone area at the side of the Kop and it made me think there should be more initiatives like this to
offer additional entertainment and attractions.

5: I'm still on the fence regards women's football because I don't think it can ever be universally profit making.
Tickets are £5 to £10 and crowds in the top flight increased from a 1,924 average to a 5,387 average (which is still lower than league 2 level)
However the main reason for the large increase was 2 clubs, Man Utd and Arsenal.
Man Utd's average increased from 3K to 10K and Arsenal average increased from 3K to 15K
however for those 2 clubs there are 10's of 1000's that can't get a ticket to watch the mens team
so if you're unable to watch the mens team then the next best might be to watch the womens team.

I remember Emma Hayes once saying giving away free tickets and charging £5....is showing the product in a bad light.
She suggested prices were increased but then it would make you wonder if attendances would drop to non league level.

I understand all the issues with rebuilding the Kop and it’s not the cheap and easy option. If I was to sum up our approach to making improvements to Bramall Lane, it would be “the cheap and easy option”.

That approach has lead us to the position we are now, where we need to make improvements but it’s very difficult due to no forward planning in the past. I think we’ll just carry on as we are for the next 10 or 20 years until it gets to a point where the Lane isn’t fit for purpose anymore and we move.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I think the standard on the pitch, is drastically let down by the venue it is watched in. In comparison with a number of clubs who are/have been relatively on equal footing with ourselves, the lack of investment in infrastructure is astonishing.

I will say that I love the Kop with all my heart, but there is no denying that it needs to be brought up to a modern yardstick in terms of hospitality. Just the fact that it's lacking a roof across all the various amenities (sans toilets) is embarrassing in this day and age. And there has been talk of removing the pillars for donkey's years now, yet we still haven't bothered to do anything about it.

First task should be the Kop. I doubt there is anyway to work with what is already there, so that means a total knockdown and start from scratch. Pillars gone, concourse under cover, and improved refreshments. There are many grounds where the snap is light years ahead of the shoddy crap we put on. Hull is perhaps the best I've seen in the Championship, but here's an example from a ground we're heading to soon:



I'd love to see us team up with a proper catering firm, capable of delivering food which is not just pre-packaged crap, that is put under a heat lamp for hours.

Keep thinking that people are playing a football manager game.

Any plan to renovate the stadium MUST have a business case regards progression and making more profit.

So lets consider the 2 options
Option A: Knock down the Kop
This is a massive job....you need to remove the earth before you can even start.
Would take an estimate 2 years to complete, so imagine a reduced capacity of 20K for 2 years.
How would you deal with that? You would force them to move into the BLUT?
We have more ST on the Kop than parts of the ground, so probably 2000 season ticket holders would be told they can no longer attend a single home match for 2 years. How do you decide which ST holders are basically banned from the ground. How about a rota where everyone takes turns missing matches? Our home areas would be 100% season ticket older only....so new fans can come for 2 years.

A new Kop would have a steeper rake with more leg room.
So this logically means capacity would be reduced or similar to what it is now.

The cost would be massive....as the capacity wont be higher then surely prices would increase to South stand pricing.
Always think we need a cheaper area for fans with more basic conditions.
One might say we could build banqueting and conference facilities under the Kop
but not sure it's needed on 3 sides of the ground.....surely John Street and an expanded South stand would be enough.

Option B: The cheapo bolt-on design
I remember at the time feeling disappointed that it wasn't something more ambition but McCabe explained his reasons for his design and in fairness they made alot of sense. He said the Kop extension would take 1 season and 2 Summers to complete and said for most of the build most of the Kop could remain open as normal, so stadium capacity and ST holders wouldn't be effected.

He highlighted that the worse part of the Kop was the posts and uncovered concourse areas.
So his design sorted this with large toilets, large bars and modern kiosks all enclosed totally protected from wind and rain.
Some of the seats are quite cramps for tall people....so the area behind the current Kop would be at a steeper rake and offer more room.
He also said the new bolt-on design was the most cost effective option available and would increase capacity by 3,200.
A few sell outs on the Kop and we eventually get that investment money back, also think a 14K Kop,
making it one of the biggest in England improves our image.

Personally I'd prefer option A but the business case is so weak that to do it, would be financial negligence
and risk pissing off 1000's of season ticket holders and possibly having a damaging effect on our future fanbase.

Think it's important to offer fans choice.
So we need a cheap area like a Kop with basic facilities....so people who are cashed strapped can choose that area.
Then we need an area where people, businesses have plenty of money to spend and will do if they are given the best.
Corporate and exec seats is always the area that provides the greatest return on investment in any stadium.
My understand is that the motivation expanding the South stand wasn't the extra 6K seats, it was more about having fancy corporate facilities and a private underground car park to impress VIP's visitors, a fancy brand new directors box and suite to impress opposition directors, enlarged fancy new changing rooms to impress visiting players, state of the art Media Centre to impress Sky TV and national journalists.

I remember McCabe also saying that the beauty about the South stand expansion design was again it wouldn't reduce stadium capacity
because we would be building behind what's already there. I'm sure I read he preferred to do both at the same time because it cuts overall costs.

This thread is a good idea by the OP because you would think that any new owner must have a vision, a plan, a manifesto.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I understand all the issues with rebuilding the Kop and it’s not the cheap and easy option. If I was to sum up our approach to making improvements to Bramall Lane, it would be “the cheap and easy option”.

That approach has lead us to the position we are now, where we need to make improvements but it’s very difficult due to no forward planning in the past. I think we’ll just carry on as we are for the next 10 or 20 years until it gets to a point where the Lane isn’t fit for purpose anymore and we move.

Have you seen the McCabe plan for the Kop?
It was cost effective ensuring that Kop prices don't need to be raised to South stand prices.
No capacity reduction required and if gives 90% of what everyone wants.

No pillars, concourse all under cover and protected, fancy expanded toilets, bars and kiosks.....very much fit for the purpose.
The only thing that's poor is the leg room if you're really tall or really overweight.
However the 3,200 additional seats placed at the back of the Kop will be at a steeper rake and will offer more leg room.
If leg room is really important then you have options to go into the safe standing area or choose the South stand or BLUT.

 

[YES Blade]

Have you seen the McCabe plan for the Kop?
It was cost effective ensuring that Kop prices don't need to be raised to South stand prices.
No capacity reduction required and if gives 90% of what everyone wants.

No pillars, concourse all under cover and protected, fancy expanded toilets, bars and kiosks.....very much fit for the purpose.
The only thing that's poor is the leg room if you're really tall or really overweight.
However the 3,200 additional seats placed at the back of the Kop will be on a steeper rake and will offer more leg room.
If leg room is really important then you have options to go into the safe standing area or choose the South stand or BLUT.

Yeah, the McCabe plan is shit!

 

[Sheffsteel]

I really can’t understand why some people think it’s ok for a football club to provide shit facilities. In what other industry would customers accept shit facilities at a premium price?

It’s as if some fans would rather have shit facilities because it’s somehow not proper football if the stadium is actually nice!

Agree.....some Blades don't like change and get nostalgic about the olden days when facilities were truly crap.

However we live in a different century now with different expectations.
I remember some of the recent national events taking place at Bramall Lane.
The women's Euros, the Kell Brook boxing.....spoke to outsiders who were visiting BL for the first time
and they all said the ground is really nice....however when you think of a visitor going on our Kop and venturing towards the concourse areas then it's embarrassing.

Having toilets and kiosk areas that aren't protected from the wind and rain is a disgrace really.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Yeah, the McCabe plan is shit!

Oh dear....giving an opinion with any explanation.
I'm also not a massive fan of the McCabe cost effective plan....if I was playing football manager I'd probably build a brand new 50K stadium on the BL site. I'd have one of them that lights up on the outside in different colours.
However In the real (professional) world....you need to provide a business case based around return on investment.

Agree about your point about a better stadium with modern facilities could bring inn extra revenue from stadium concerts etc.

 

[bikerblade]

Surely having extra revenue from NFL, Taylor Swift etc. helps keep ticket prices lower? How does it contribute to pricing out regular fans?

If it would then I am all for it.

 

[bikerblade]

I think Taylor Swift will be playing the 200k seater Mars Arena, before she ever thinks about sunny Sheff.

I think you are probably correct - it was someone else that mentioned it.

 

[YES Blade]

Oh dear....giving an opinion with any explanation.
I also not a massive fan of the McCabe fan....if I was playing football manager I'd probably build a brand new 50K stadium on the BL site.
In the real (professional) world....you'd need to explain why an alternate idea is better and provided a better return on investment.

For example: What about dealing with the 20K reduced capacity for at least 2 seasons?
We have over 22K seasons so how is that issue sorted? Do you force many of the them onto the BLUT?
How do you decide which ST holders are banned from the stadium for 2 seasons?

I’ve given the reason in a previous post, it’s the cheap and easy option. Maybe the reason we’ve not won anything for 100 years is because we are always happy to settle for second best?

I’d honestly rather move than build that crap design by McCabe.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I’ve given the reason in a previous post, it’s the cheap and easy option. Maybe the reason we’ve not won anything for 100 years is because we are always happy to settle for second best?

I’d honestly rather move than build that crap design by McCabe.

Fair enough and I kind of agree.
McCabe's plan, although practical, does stink of the old Sheffield mentality of settling for "it'll do for us", "it's alright".

If the site was levels and a new Kop was built then they could put the rake inline with the misfit Kop corner stand and make that part of the Kop too.
Regards return on investment I suppose it depends on what put below the Kop.
They could build restaurants and accommodation or make it super fanzone area accessible from the Kop and John Street stand.

Also regards stadium capacity reduction....if they build the South stand upper tier first then capacity would be a more manageable 26K
plus a small temporary stand on the Kop.

 

[I should coco]

Fair enough and I kind of agree.
McCabe's plan, although practical, does stink of the old Sheffield mentality of settling for "it'll do for us", "it's alright".

If the site was levels and a new Kop was built then they could put the rake inline with the misfit Kop corner stand and make that part of the Kop too.
Regards return on investment I suppose it depends on what put below the Kop.
They could build restaurants and accommodation or make it super fanzone area accessible from the Kop and John Street stand.

Also regards stadium capacity reduction....if they build the South stand upper tier first then capacity would be a more manageable 26K
plus a small temporary stand on the Kop.

We didn't take the cheap option in the 70s and the South Stand gave us 15 years in the wilderness and nearly bankrupted us.

The 'build it and they will come' policy is fine if you have shitloads of spare cash, but a potential disaster if you are borrowing with a less than AA credit rating.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Yeah very fair points mate. The kop for me feels like a priority because it’s what generates the atmosphere but I take your points on the logistics of the whole thing. I don’t know enough about the spread of our season tickets to know if it’s reasonable to ask people move elsewhere in the ground for a couple of years. perhaps it does need to be a south stand upper extension first.

I think your thread is significant because any new owner MUST have plans, for our short term, medium term and long term.

When the US investors took over Birmingham City they almost immediately announced they were going to buy some land to build a 50K+ multi function stadium. Listening to the new owners manifesto is the part that going to interest me so much.

It shouldn't be a case of, they've just taken over so need a few weeks/ months to devise a strategy.
One the past year they will have had numerous meeting about stadium plans, new training ground etc, so will have a strategy from day 1.

 

[nopigfansintown]

The club should be in the business of appealing to the widest clientele possible in order to maximise revenue. To do that it has to have facilities that appeal to these people - not just your regular attendee that is prepared to put up with the obvious limitations. Every pound spent on something outside Bramall Lane on something that can be provided inside Bramall Lane, on an event day, is a pound the club has lost. That's for matchday and non matchday events.

The danger with the Lane is that things don't get upgraded incrementally and we end up with shut stands or a move to a new "home" . See the pigs for your cautionary tale. Nobody in their right mind will spend money on that dump, it's too far gone.

*I noticed that the, to me, expensive food in the Fan Park all sold out . Opening the fan park to Kop Dwellers is a tacit acknowledgement of all the above by the way

 

[YES Blade]

Fair enough and I kind of agree.
McCabe's plan, although practical, does stink of the old Sheffield mentality of settling for "it'll do for us", "it's alright".

If the site was levels and a new Kop was built then they could put the rake inline with the misfit Kop corner stand and make that part of the Kop too.
Regards return on investment I suppose it depends on what put below the Kop.
They could build restaurants and accommodation or make it super fanzone area accessible from the Kop and John Street stand.

Also regards stadium capacity reduction....if they build the South stand upper tier first then capacity would be a more manageable 26K
plus a small temporary stand on the Kop.

A rebuild would obviously be a huge challenge, don’t get me wrong. I just think we need to make decisions on things like the infrastructure on what’s best for the long term. If someone had that view when the south stand was built, it would’ve been built further back giving more space for expansion of the rest of the stadium.

I have a season ticket on the kop, so ideally I wouldn’t want to be moved or be restricted on the number of matches I can attend. But I if have to make a sacrifice for the greater good, e.g. what’s best for United, then I’d do it.

 

[YES Blade]

We didn't take the cheap option in the 70s and the South Stand gave us 15 years in the wilderness and nearly bankrupted us.

The 'build it and they will come' policy is fine if you have shitloads of spare cash, but a potential disaster if you are borrowing with a less than AA credit rating.

How do you know we wouldn’t have still struggled on the pitch without building the south stand?

Maybe it was the best decision to build the stand and have that asset for the next 50 years+

 

[I should coco]

When the US investors took over Birmingham City they almost immediately announced they were going to buy some land to build a 50K+ multi function stadium. Listening to the new owners manifesto is the part that going to interest me so much.

They also showed their uber shrewd football knowledge by sacking the unknown manager that had got them in the playoff places and replacing him with a 'name'.
That went well.

 

[I should coco]

How do you know we wouldn’t have still struggled on the pitch without building the south stand?

Maybe it was the best decision to build the stand and have that asset for the next 50 years+

I don't and likewise, neither do you.

I do know that we had to sell arguably our 3rd/4th best player to finance it though. Had that not happened maybe we'd have stayed up in 75/76.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Keep thinking that people are playing a football manager game.

Any plan to renovate the stadium MUST have a business case regards progression and making more profit.

So lets consider the 2 options
Option A: Knock down the Kop
This is a massive job....you need to remove the earth before you can even start.
Would take an estimate 2 years to complete, so imagine a reduced capacity of 20K for 2 years.
How would you deal with that? You would force them to move into the BLUT?
We have more ST on the Kop than parts of the ground, so probably 2000 season ticket holders would be told they can no longer attend a single home match for 2 years. How do you decide which ST holders are basically banned from the ground. How about a rota where everyone takes turns missing matches? Our home areas would be 100% season ticket older only....so new fans can come for 2 years.

A new Kop would have a steeper rake with more leg room.
So this logically means capacity would be reduced or similar to what it is now.

The cost would be massive....as the capacity wont be higher then surely prices would increase to South stand pricing.
Always think we need a cheaper area for fans with more basic conditions.
One might say we could build banqueting and conference facilities under the Kop
but not sure it's needed on 3 sides of the ground.....surely John Street and an expanded South stand would be enough.

Option B: The cheapo bolt-on design
I remember at the time feeling disappointed that it wasn't something more ambition but McCabe explained his reasons for his design and in fairness they made alot of sense. He said the Kop extension would take 1 season and 2 Summers to complete and said for most of the build most of the Kop could remain open as normal, so stadium capacity and ST holders wouldn't be effected.

He highlighted that the worse part of the Kop was the posts and uncovered concourse areas.
So his design sorted this with large toilets, large bars and modern kiosks all enclosed totally protected from wind and rain.
Some of the seats are quite cramps for tall people....so the area behind the current Kop would be at a steeper rake and offer more room.
He also said the new bolt-on design was the most cost effective option available and would increase capacity by 3,200.
A few sell outs on the Kop and we eventually get that investment money back, also think a 14K Kop,
making it one of the biggest in England improves our image.

Personally I'd prefer option A but the business case is so weak that to do it, would be financial negligence
and risk pissing off 1000's of season ticket holders and possibly having a damaging effect on our future fanbase.

Think it's important to offer fans choice.
So we need a cheap area like a Kop with basic facilities....so people who are cashed strapped can choose that area.
Then we need an area where people, businesses have plenty of money to spend and will do if they are given the best.
Corporate and exec seats is always the area that provides the greatest return on investment in any stadium.
My understand is that the motivation expanding the South stand wasn't the extra 6K seats, it was more about having fancy corporate facilities and a private underground car park to impress VIP's visitors, a fancy brand new directors box and suite to impress opposition directors, enlarged fancy new changing rooms to impress visiting players, state of the art Media Centre to impress Sky TV and national journalists.

I remember McCabe also saying that the beauty about the South stand expansion design was again it wouldn't reduce stadium capacity
because we would be building behind what's already there. I'm sure I read he preferred to do both at the same time because it cuts overall costs.

This thread is a good idea by the OP because you would think that any new owner must have a vision, a plan, a manifesto.

They look at it in terms of £ per seat. FSG were reluctant to develop the Anfield Road end as the £ per seat return was too low. Opportunities for corporate facilities are also far more restricted behind the goals as boxes etc go for far more in the side stands. Increasing the capacity of any stand potentially reduces the £ per seat due to simple supply and demand economics: the less of an in demand product there is available, the more it's worth. FSG had no hang ups when they built the Anfield Main Stand as the return per seat was very high. It's hard to compare us with Liverpool but it gives some insight. FSG have ruled out further expansion despite a huge waiting list for tickets.

 

[nopigfansintown]

If Sheffield United didn't have the vision to speculate on Shirecliffe I doubt any if the good things that happened in the next 20+ years would've happened. It was seen as lunacy at the time...

 

[SUFC Guy]

Expand the Kop (when we get back to the prem) Entire away end to be for away support only unless we can fill it. Move existing STs to the expanded Kop and other areas.

Means tested match day tickets and season tickets to help the less fortunate families attend.

Stadium wide wifi.

Safe standing areas in every stand.

24/7 SUTV.

Steel city cup Derbies again. (when not in the same division)

More prestigious pre season tours.

All of above could increase fan engagement, fan base and revenue.

 

[YES Blade]

I don't and likewise, neither do you.

I do know that we had to sell arguably our 3rd/4th best player to finance it though. Had that not happened maybe we'd have stayed up in 75/76.

We spent 6 years in league one without building a new stand. I’m not sure how the south stand being built is relevant to what we should do in the future.