So its official

[sjl]

This is true. Without the parachute payment, the gulf would not only be insurmountable but would be regularly killing clubs as well. I imagine the only people genuinely arguing for this are those that have never received them and, probably, call them "failure payments"

But we’ve not spent it, if we had, we’d have been a little bit more successful…maybe conceding only 90 goals or something daft like that.

 

[Bartleby]

Good luck Ipswich.

Back to back promotions and not losing key players might give them the momentum that we seriously lacked this time. Good luck to em.

 

[Esteban Cambiasso]

First time all 3 promoted teams from CH have gone back down the year after since 1997/98.

The gulf between top 3 CH and bottom 3 PL is only gonna get bigger over the next few years.

Good luck Ipswich.

Quote me on this at this time next year.... Ipswich will stop up, as will Leicester. The 3 that went up last season were exceptionally bad.. we didn't even try to stop up

 

[UddersBlade]

Leicester will get a hefty points deduction so won’t stay up. Neither will Ipswich ….they will give it a good go - a bit like Luton though. Play off winners are ‘dead meat’

Only other contenders would be Brentford, Bournemouth or Fulham.

 

[SRA76]

Rubbish

It’s just been proved pal.

 

[Torrix1889]

It's going to get more common but it'll need to happen a few times in a row before the PL acknowledge that maybe there's a problem let alone do anything to address it. Next year Leicester will stay up so that'll reset the clock.

Living in Leicestershire and knowing dozens of Leicester fans I wouldn't be so sure they will stay up. Looks like at least a 5 point deduction and they have to sell players to balance the books....

 

[nopigfansintown]

Lets not insult the championship by suggesting our current team would even get in the top half of that league.

Utd and Burnley have been idiotically shit but for different reasons.

The Prem isn't the problem, clubs not properly using the huge amounts of money they've been given are

You aren't really given a huge amount of money. You get around 100 million. Straight away between half and three quarters of that is gone on wages and bonuses. Now build me a side to compete with what's left. First please remember: if you come down you can either put in 20- 40 million pounds of your own money (per season) or else you'd better not sign anyone without a clause that puts them on lower end Championship money (then you might get away with 10-25 million). Good luck!

 

[The Crab]

Back to back promotions and not losing key players might give them the momentum that we seriously lacked this time. Good luck to em.

It’ll help, in my view that’s makes them more likely to do a Luton than be like us.

Great story and I wish them well, but where’s the money?

 

[Tony Currie]

Lets get to the point - it's players wages that are killing the game. All the premier clubs are in the top 50 in Europe and most are spending nearly all their Premiership income on wages. Some day soon a big club will go into administration and then be dissolved (aka Bury). Only then will action be taken. We spend less than a seventh of big clubs and a third of what Forest spend. We have a choice manage finances properly or take a risk. I would rather keep my club and I am actually looking forward to the championship.


1. Paris Saint-Germain – €290,990,000
2. Real Madrid – €282,650,000
3. Bayern Munich – €255,320,000
4. Manchester United – €240,761,310 (£205,756,000)
5. Manchester City – €235,233,765 (£201,332,000)
6. Barcelona – €210,960,000
7. Arsenal – €194,283,737 (£166,036,000)
8. Chelsea – €181,749,305 (£155,324,000)
9. Atletico Madrid – €170,890,000
10. Liverpool – €159,418,540 (£136,240,000)
11. Tottenham – €137,513,702 (£117,520,000)
12. Aston Villa – €137,080,754 (£117,150,000)
13. Borussia Dortmund – €126,600,000
14. Juventus – €121,592,000
15. Inter – €115,780,000
16. West Ham United – €111,532,129 (£95,316,000)
17. Roma – €104,400,000
18. RB Leipzig – €101,040,000
19. Newcastle United – €98,876,001 (£84,500,000)
20. Everton – €92,414,543 (£78,978,000)
21. AC Milan – €86,000,000
22. Nottingham Forest – €84,307,884 (£72,050,000)
23. Crystal Palace – €80,797,492 (£69,050,000)
24. Fulham – €78,035,987 (£66,690,000)
25. Sevilla – €77,810,000
26. Napoli – €75,470,000
27. Marseille – €73,740,000
28. Lazio – €73,630,000
29. Brighton – €73,016,127 (£62,400,000)
30. Bayer Leverkusen – €64,370,000
31. Wolves – €62,976,411 (£53,820,000)
32.. Bournemouth – €62,945,987 (£53,794,000)
33. Fiorentina – €59,390,000
34. Monaco – €58,420,000
35. Athletic Club – €57,910,000
36. Wolfsburg – €54,830,000
37. Borussia Monchengladbach – €51,480,000
38. Hoffenheim – €48,590,000
39. Lyon – €48,400,000
40. Real Sociedad – €48,180,000
41. Brentford – €46,730,320 (£39,676,000)
42. Villarreal – €45,720,000
43. Real Betis – €45,640,000
44. Atalanta – €45,460,000
45. Burnley – €45,057,035 (£38,506,000)
46. Valencia – €39,670,000
47. Torino – €39,080,000
48. Eintracht Frankfurt – €36,330,000
49. Union Berlin – €35,020,000
50. Sassuolo – €33,700,000
51. Sheffield Utd – €33,628,265 (£28,756,000)
52. Rennes – €32,300,000
53. Cagliari – €31,660,000
54. Genoa – €30,970,000
55. Bologna – €29,780,000
56. Celta Vigo – €29,030,000
57. Monza – €28,880,000
58. Werder Bremen – €28,880,000
59. Luton Town – €28,750,102 (£24,570,000)

 

[metalblade]

It would seem like Norwich had the right idea get promoted and spend nothing use the one year in the Premier league payments and parachute money to finance the clubs years in the Championship.
The one positive to come out of this season will most likely be buying the land to upgrade our academy to level one meaning it will be harder for big clubs to cherry pick any talent we should find. We have also returned the McCabe blackmail plots of land to the club and work is ongoing at the hotel.
To me that is all that the Championship clubs have to look forward to buy good Championship players, improve your facilities, and take a shit season in the Premier league every few years to pay for it. Once you try competing with the buying power of Premier league clubs you are going into a world of pain and putting the club at risk of going bust.

 

[metalblade]

Lets get to the point - it's players wages that are killing the game. All the premier clubs are in the top 50 in Europe and most are spending nearly all their Premiership income on wages. Some day soon a big club will go into administration and then be dissolved (aka Bury). Only then will action be taken. We spend less than a seventh of big clubs and a third of what Forest spend. We have a choice manage finances properly or take a risk. I would rather keep my club and I am actually looking forward to the championship.


1. Paris Saint-Germain – €290,990,000
2. Real Madrid – €282,650,000
3. Bayern Munich – €255,320,000
4. Manchester United – €240,761,310 (£205,756,000)
5. Manchester City – €235,233,765 (£201,332,000)
6. Barcelona – €210,960,000
7. Arsenal – €194,283,737 (£166,036,000)
8. Chelsea – €181,749,305 (£155,324,000)
9. Atletico Madrid – €170,890,000
10. Liverpool – €159,418,540 (£136,240,000)
11. Tottenham – €137,513,702 (£117,520,000)
12. Aston Villa – €137,080,754 (£117,150,000)
13. Borussia Dortmund – €126,600,000
14. Juventus – €121,592,000
15. Inter – €115,780,000
16. West Ham United – €111,532,129 (£95,316,000)
17. Roma – €104,400,000
18. RB Leipzig – €101,040,000
19. Newcastle United – €98,876,001 (£84,500,000)
20. Everton – €92,414,543 (£78,978,000)
21. AC Milan – €86,000,000
22. Nottingham Forest – €84,307,884 (£72,050,000)
23. Crystal Palace – €80,797,492 (£69,050,000)
24. Fulham – €78,035,987 (£66,690,000)
25. Sevilla – €77,810,000
26. Napoli – €75,470,000
27. Marseille – €73,740,000
28. Lazio – €73,630,000
29. Brighton – €73,016,127 (£62,400,000)
30. Bayer Leverkusen – €64,370,000
31. Wolves – €62,976,411 (£53,820,000)
32.. Bournemouth – €62,945,987 (£53,794,000)
33. Fiorentina – €59,390,000
34. Monaco – €58,420,000
35. Athletic Club – €57,910,000
36. Wolfsburg – €54,830,000
37. Borussia Monchengladbach – €51,480,000
38. Hoffenheim – €48,590,000
39. Lyon – €48,400,000
40. Real Sociedad – €48,180,000
41. Brentford – €46,730,320 (£39,676,000)
42. Villarreal – €45,720,000
43. Real Betis – €45,640,000
44. Atalanta – €45,460,000
45. Burnley – €45,057,035 (£38,506,000)
46. Valencia – €39,670,000
47. Torino – €39,080,000
48. Eintracht Frankfurt – €36,330,000
49. Union Berlin – €35,020,000
50. Sassuolo – €33,700,000
51. Sheffield Utd – €33,628,265 (£28,756,000)
52. Rennes – €32,300,000
53. Cagliari – €31,660,000
54. Genoa – €30,970,000
55. Bologna – €29,780,000
56. Celta Vigo – €29,030,000
57. Monza – €28,880,000
58. Werder Bremen – €28,880,000
59. Luton Town – €28,750,102 (£24,570,000)

To think we are paying this shower of shit £33,628,265 ..................... what a crazy world.

 

[BigBed]

With Leicester returning, I think Forest will need to watch their arses.

 

[Kev Gee]

It's going to get more common but it'll need to happen a few times in a row before the PL acknowledge that maybe there's a problem let alone do anything to address it. Next year Leicester will stay up so that'll reset the clock.

I'm not sure Leicester will stay up.
Aren't they going to be given a points deduction for overspending during their last PL stay?

 

[K1 flabby stick]

As I said on another thread. If we want parity, we should hand back the parachute cash and show the championship we are all for equality. That’ll show the PL that we are bigger than them and their cheat money!!

Well, we would be in administration in weeks.

Don't ever think that this runs on principles and morality the bottom line its money money money.
I wish it wasn't.

But...… it could and should have been managed far better at all levels for he past 3 years, especially recruitment and retention. Thing would be very different if it had.

 

[Varkanoid]

Lets get to the point - it's players wages that are killing the game.

To think we are paying this shower of shit £33,628,265 ..................... what a crazy world.

This is the underlying problem. PL players are required to be paid top dollar. Take a team of 22 people getting £33 million in a company who fail at making a profit, fail at achieving targets and don't make anything worthwhile in 10 months no business in the world would allow that apart from a Football Team. Its broken there is no way out of it than piling in more £'s

 

[SwitchBLADE Smiles]

Ipswich won’t survive. They’re a really fun team to watch, but to be any good in the premier league you need to stop the opposition from getting chances. As we’ve seen so many times this season, they don’t need much of a chance to stick one in the onion bag & like it or not, the biggest reason we did so well in the 19 - 20 season was because defensively we were sound.

Their best asset this season has been their ability to score lots of goals; a feature they will not be afforded in the premier league.

You get lots of time and space with the ball in the championship; there are times where you feel the pitch is half the size in the premier league.

Good luck to them, but it’s a fucking horrible division and I can’t help but think it’s going be a serious struggle.

 

[steve26272]

: if you come down you can either put in 20- 40 million pounds of your own money (per season)!

as an owner to hit P&S of £105m over 3 years requires you to put in almost £3m of your own money every month

In what other walk of life, be it business or just your mortgage and bills against your wages does that happen, or is sustainable?

Not sure how they sort out his shit out, but can see a situation soon where every year one or 2 clubs a season go into administration, and not Bury or Halifax, but Everton, Forest, Leicester us etc

 

[The Bear]

To think we are paying this shower of shit £33,628,265 ..................... what a crazy world.

We weren't. Is that why you are not trusted with the shopping? The figure you quoted was Euros. But £28.7m doesn't sound much better either.

 

[SRA76]

They’ll get annihilated next season , Leicester will survive , whoever gets out of the play offs also making a quick return

Leicester got points deduction coming their way they’ll probably go down. Ipswich I think with manager they’ve got and board will stay up imo. But what I can confidently predict is nobody will be getting annihilated quite like we have just been

 

[Keen Blade]

Reading this thread has been most illuminating.
What I take from it is that under the present owner , we are in a Catch 22 situation re promotion to the PL.
1) there is no point getting there because we can't possibly survive and the inevitable relegation is painful.
2) but we need the occasional injection of cash just to be a top half Championship club.
What does this mean for us fans ?
Next season , everyone assumes that promotion is the target (because what other target is there ?).
But can we really take another season like this one ?
From 1968 to 2020 , my ambition for dem Blades was to get to the old Div 1 or the PL and try to stay there.
A nice simple philosophy.
Since 2020 , learning the brutal financial realities has left my philosophy in tatters.
The PL dream has been turned into a nightmare due to the money involved , which we simply don't have.
Is it better to have no ambition whatsoever for the club and simply watch each game as it comes , hoping to see our players develop and finding new heroes ?
I would love to know what others thoughts are on this.
Do you start in August hoping to achieve promotion or not ?
I suppose one way of looking at it is that if we appear to be at least a top six club , it would make us more attractive to a buyer who might invest more ?
There was a school of thought that being a yo-yo club is good preparation for becoming established in the PL , but the reality is that the yo-yo is incredibly painful.

 

[wizadry]

Leicester might be okay, Ipswich will get properly dry bummed and if Norwich make it through the playoffs they’ll get it even harder than Ipswich. Southampton might be okay, and if it’s Leeds that go up then if there’s any justice in this world they’ll get a bigger hammering than a blind cobbler’s thumb.

Just spat my cup of lovely tea all over the place.

 

[metalblade]

Reading this thread has been most illuminating.
What I take from it is that under the present owner , we are in a Catch 22 situation re promotion to the PL.
1) there is no point getting there because we can't possibly survive and the inevitable relegation is painful.
2) but we need the occasional injection of cash just to be a top half Championship club.
What does this mean for us fans ?
Next season , everyone assumes that promotion is the target (because what other target is there ?).
But can we really take another season like this one ?
From 1968 to 2020 , my ambition for dem Blades was to get to the old Div 1 or the PL and try to stay there.
A nice simple philosophy.
Since 2020 , learning the brutal financial realities has left my philosophy in tatters.
The PL dream has been turned into a nightmare due to the money involved , which we simply don't have.
Is it better to have no ambition whatsoever for the club and simply watch each game as it comes , hoping to see our players develop and finding new heroes ?
I would love to know what others thoughts are on this.
Do you start in August hoping to achieve promotion or not ?
I suppose one way of looking at it is that if we appear to be at least a top six club , it would make us more attractive to a buyer who might invest more ?
There was a school of thought that being a yo-yo club is good preparation for becoming established in the PL , but the reality is that the yo-yo is incredibly painful.

I can't disagree with much of the above but the thing is for me the game has become pointless, you can spend a small fortune to get promoted to the Premier league but when you get there you find you are still way off what is required to compete. The alternative is to plod along in the Championship year on year and occasionally flirt with the play off's. Now this needs one or two good players but you can be sure if you don't win the play off's those few good players will be snatched away to Premier league clubs so you are back where you started. I think it is soul destroying waiting for any decent player you find or develop to be sold to the Premier league clubs. Good young players are not going to stick around in the Championship when a Prem club offers to make them a millionaire in one year without them ever kicking a ball in the Premier league, loaned back to the Championship is good enough. Most clubs in the Championship are just unofficial feeder clubs as the Prem Hoover's their players up.
The game isn't a sport any more it is a money machine for 20 clubs they rest do their best to survive on crumbs falling off the table. Sick of it, enough is enough. I don't see the point of being another Bristol City, Preston, Blackburn or Millwall who you can 99% guarantee will go nowhere higher than mid table with a small chance of a play off spot.

 

[loyalblade95]

It's going to get more common but it'll need to happen a few times in a row before the PL acknowledge that maybe there's a problem let alone do anything to address it. Next year Leicester will stay up so that'll reset the clock.

Leicester will be the next PL team to be hit with the points deductions, apparently Leeds will get the same if they get promoted.

Hopefully Ipswich will stay up but just have to wait and see, what might make things awkward is if Everton enter administration over the summer and get a 9 point deduction, something that looks certain now with this 777 takeover looking very unlikely.

 

[ForgeBlade]

As others have said in more detail, the problem is the obscene hoarding of wealth at the very top. The much-vaunted "prize money" for getting to the PL is a drop in the ocean compared to what the "elite" clubs can, and do spend on a regular basis.

Let's say promotion is worth roughly £138m this season (from a quick google). That sounds like a fuckton of money, but using Leicester this season as an example, their wage bill in the championship is estimated at a shade over £60m. If most of their first-teamers get, say, a 50% payrise on promotion, that's £30m gone in a stroke, just for going up. That's a fifth of the "prize money". Factor in any other bonuses players and management staff may get, could easily swallow another £5m. So the "war chest" is down to £103m. Still a lot of money it seems, but when the huge clubs up the other end can spend that amount on one player, and can do so 2 or 3 times in a window, it pales into insignificance.

You then make a "marquee signing." You spend £30m on a proven player, that you HOPE will be the key man. Oh, and he wants £100k a week wages. There goes another £35m, and you've only improved one single position in your team. The other 10, plus all your subs and squad players, are still effectively championship players. You're now down to £68m of your prize pot left.

I might be way out on these numbers. I admit I know very little about the ins and outs of contracts/bonuses/payrises etc, I'm just spitballing numbers. But if what you get for being promoted is only the equivalent of 1 or 2 genuinely top-level signings, not even factoring in their exorbitant wages, then it's such an uneven playing field it's untrue.

Also in the current climate of FFP or whatever it's called now, promoted clubs HAVE to plan sensibly for the (increasingly) likely scenario that they go straight back down. Yes there is parachute money, but it's still a colossal gulf in revenue to be made up if/when you're back in the Championship. So you can't just go out and spunk whatever's left of the "prize money" cos if it then all goes wrong, you're double-fucked by the next relegation.

I'm not getting into conspiracy theories etc, but it does feel like there is now such a gulf in wealth that the top teams are effectively protected from any real repercussions if/when they break the rules. Who can afford better lawyers re. these apparent 115 charges that Man City are facing? The premier league, or the vice president of the UAE, with a family fortune close to $1 TRILLION?

 

[The Fox]

Some really well made and explained thoughts on here ,been a good read ..
Clubs like us seam to be caught in some weird version of the Peter Principle , enough to gain a seat at the top table ,not good enough to retain it .
I'm not sure as the new rules kick in any team will be able to buy their way in by spending loads so it seams its back to finding hidden gems and coaching and nuturing younger academy talent . Problem there is the established teams can afford to spunk more money that you on the "hidden gem" with a chance they may come off ( stick out on loan ) and likewise cherrypick your younger players by offering 2 or 3 times more money to tempt them away.
The problem in the long term is that the PL money is from selling an entertaining product to the world, for that there has to be more competition. It'll play out somehow but for me ,the goal remains promotion even with the somewhat inevitable consequences

 

[Keen Blade]

I can't disagree with much of the above but the thing is for me the game has become pointless, you can spend a small fortune to get promoted to the Premier league but when you get there you find you are still way off what is required to compete. The alternative is to plod along in the Championship year on year and occasionally flirt with the play off's. Now this needs one or two good players but you can be sure if you don't win the play off's those few good players will be snatched away to Premier league clubs so you are back where you started. I think it is soul destroying waiting for any decent player you find or develop to be sold to the Premier league clubs. Good young players are not going to stick around in the Championship when a Prem club offers to make them a millionaire in one year without them ever kicking a ball in the Premier league, loaned back to the Championship is good enough. Most clubs in the Championship are just unofficial feeder clubs as the Prem Hoover's their players up.
The game isn't a sport any more it is a money machine for 20 clubs they rest do their best to survive on crumbs falling off the table. Sick of it, enough is enough. I don't see the point of being another Bristol City, Preston, Blackburn or Millwall who you can 99% guarantee will go nowhere higher than mid table with a small chance of a play off spot.

So , Metal blade , have you stopped going to the Lane ?

And Silent , you seem to agree with the "money spoiling the game" viewpoint but I think you attend home & away.
What's your philosophy ?

 

[ForgeBlade]

Some really well made and explained thoughts on here ,been a good read ..
Clubs like us seam to be caught in some weird version of the Peter Principle , enough to gain a seat at the top table ,not good enough to retain it .
I'm not sure as the new rules kick in any team will be able to buy their way in by spending loads so it seams its back to finding hidden gems and coaching and nuturing younger academy talent . Problem there is the established teams can afford to spunk more money that you on the "hidden gem" with a chance they may come off ( stick out on loan ) and likewise cherrypick your younger players by offering 2 or 3 times more money to tempt them away.
The problem in the long term is that the PL money is from selling an entertaining product to the world, for that there has to be more competition. It'll play out somehow but for me ,the goal remains promotion even with the somewhat inevitable consequences

This is a big problem as well. If you're an 18/19 year old lad, playing for a mid table champ side, but playing well, the scouts and agents from the "superclubs" will come sniffing round. Very easy to turn the head of a young player at that age, promise him the world, offer him 50 or 60 grand a week on the off-chance he turns into the next Cole Palmer or Phil Foden. Sadly, 99% of them don't, they spend a couple of years benchwarming, playing in the league cup or out on loan, and end up right back in the Championship at 24 or 25. Surely it would be better for them to move up gradually, to a mid-table or newly promoted PL side, play week in week out and learn how the top league works? But the allure of the money on offer is, let's be honest, too good to turn down.

The problem (or part of it) is that these clubs can afford to offer market-busting wages to these young players. If they DO come good, and make it at the very top, the club gets the benefit. If they (like so many) don't, then a couple of years of wages is not an issue in a financial sense, and they don't actually give a fuck about the players themselves.

 

[Sheffsteel]

It would seem like Norwich had the right idea get promoted and spend nothing use the one year in the Premier league payments and parachute money to finance the clubs years in the Championship.
The one positive to come out of this season will most likely be buying the land to upgrade our academy to level one meaning it will be harder for big clubs to cherry pick any talent we should find. We have also returned the McCabe blackmail plots of land to the club and work is ongoing at the hotel.
To me that is all that the Championship clubs have to look forward to buy good Championship players, improve your facilities, and take a shit season in the Premier league every few years to pay for it. Once you try competing with the buying power of Premier league clubs you are going into a world of pain and putting the club at risk of going bust,

Wow I've seen it all now.
So you're suggesting if we go up....we just accept defeat/ relegation before a ball has been kicked. That's financial suicide.
When you're given an opportunity you have to speculate to accumulate.
The Norwich fans went made when their next spend wad about 5 million, their fans were asking what's the point in not even trying to stay up.

Think this season we probably got expenditure right, net spent was £36 million
which was higher than Everton, West Ham, Wolves, Brighton and Luton, altho many of those clubs pay much higher wages.

Think success is based on the players you already have when you were promoted.
Last season when gaining promoted we were often very average but only got promoted based on having the best player in the league in our team.
Once we sold N'Diaye we were in big trouble because we never had much of a team.

 

[metalblade]

So , Metal blade , have you stopped going to the Lane ?

And Silent , you seem to agree with the "money spoiling the game" viewpoint but I think you attend home & away.
What's your philosophy ?

Yes I have not renewed my season ticket and I won't be attending the Spurs game I've given my ticket to a family member.

 

[metalblade]

Wow I've seen it all now.
So you're suggesting if we go up....we just accept defeat/ relegation before a ball has been kicked. That's financial suicide.
When you're given an opportunity you have to speculate to accumulate.
The Norwich fans went made when their next spend wad about 5 million, their fans were asking what's the point in not even trying to stay up.

Think this season we probably got expenditure right, net spent was £36 million
which was higher than Everton, West Ham, Wolves, Brighton and Luton, altho many of those clubs pay much higher wages.

Think success is based on the players you already have when you were promoted.
Last season when gaining promoted we were often very average but only got promoted based on having the best player in the league in our team.
Once we sold N'Diaye we were in big trouble because we never had much of a team.

No I'm suggesting keep the players that won you promotion rather than splash out on big names. Build up the clubs academy and infrastructure with the prize money so you have a chance of retaining any young talent you have found. Until you can retain talent you will never be able to compete in the Premier league as it is now, you can't throw money at it that you don't have without risking admin when you are inevitably relegated.