Sack Mark Hudson

[ancientblade]

When the entire midfield goes awol they are asked to break out of their defensive line and close down opposition players who have found space behind our midfield. Today they often struggled to get a challenge in, and looked, and were, all over the place as a result.

this was highlighted on motd 2 our midfield is the problem souza was suprisingly inefective yesterday newcastles midfielders had 10 yards every time they received the ball but were definetly missing baldock he covers anel a lot when he goes wandering personally i would try a switch anel in the middle of the 3 with egan rcb we dont do overlapping centre backs anymore so shouldnt be an issue

 

[him behind you]

They are finding PL forwards tough to deal with.

An example of our high pressure achieving nothing, meaning Newcastle's centre half passes up to Wilson. Egan breaks out of defence, but can't win the ball. It falls to a Newcastle player and Ahmedhodzic has to defend on his own against Gordon and ends up getting his yellow card. So two situations where two of our centre halves are being forced to defend individually against very good opponents and struggle.

View attachment 171803

To be fair to Hudson I don't think this is his way of setting us up. The game plan of today was to press high and it meant our centre halves had to do a lot of individual defending like above. They are not excellent at it.

I always enjoy reading your analysis Bergen but, in your last paragraph you seem to be suggesting that we have a defensive coach planning for playing in a certain way and a manager ignoring that and playing a different way? If that's seriously how things are working they all want sacking.

 

[Wincobank S9 Blade]

To concede 9 set piece goals in 6 games is abysmal the nearest other team has conceded 3.

 

[S64 Blade]

Egan’s been mediocre for three years. Good to see people finally waking up. If Egan would too that would be great.

JOC made him look better.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I always enjoy reading your analysis Bergen but, in your last paragraph you seem to be suggesting that we have a defensive coach planning for playing in a certain way and a manager ignoring that and playing a different way? If that's seriously how things are working they all want sacking.

I didn't quite mean it that way.

We weren't quite prepared when the season started. We had injuries and our transfer business hadn't finished. So we started the first few games realising it was going to be bloody difficult and our tactics showed that. We focused on being hard to get through, had little possession and didn't press high.

Eventually we managed to make some more signings and at some stage I bet the management were keen to see if we could start playing a more attacking game, a bit more like last season, pressing higher and being agressive, front foot and all that. I think they hoped Newcastle would be the right occasion.

The management decide our approach. Within that approach, a defensive coach will try to prepare the team the best he can, but it's not easy when you have mediocre defenders and the opposition have great forwards. And to play that way we have to press well as a team, chase in packs, gegenpress, etc, but we haven't managed to do that. It's difficult when you lack athleticism and mobility.

Yesterday I think the management had too much faith in the pressing ability of the front three, and the mobility of Norwood and Souza. It meant the job became harder for our poorly protected back five.

Just my guess: Hudson's defensive coaching may be more like Roy Hodgson's. Men behind the ball, keep the right distance between players and lines, push over as a unit and keep focus.

 

[SB_90]

the appointment is odd, he was quite bad. sacked by cardiff after 5 months as they thought he was taking them to L1 & we thought he would be perfect for our defence

 

[cooperblade]

I didn't quite mean it that way.

We weren't quite prepared when the season started. We had injuries and our transfer business hadn't finished. So we started the first few games realising it was going to be bloody difficult and our tactics showed that. We focused on being hard to get through, had little possession and didn't press high.

Eventually we managed to make some more signings and at some stage I bet the management were keen to see if we could start playing a more attacking game, a bit more like last season, pressing higher and being agressive, front foot and all that. I think they hoped Newcastle would be the right occasion.

The management decide our approach. Within that approach, a defensive coach will try to prepare the team the best he can, but it's not easy when you have mediocre defenders and the opposition have great forwards. And to play that way we have to press well as a team, chase in packs, gegenpress, etc, but we haven't managed to do that. It's difficult when you lack athleticism and mobility.

Yesterday I think the management had too much faith in the pressing ability of the front three, and the mobility of Norwood and Souza. It meant the job became harder for our poorly protected back five.

Just my guess: Hudson's defensive coaching may be more like Roy Hodgson's. Men behind the ball, keep the right distance between players and lines, push over as a unit and keep focus.

It will be interesting to see where we go from here. Our solidity in our first PL season was partly down to having 3 orthodox midfielders making it hard for teams to play through us, especially when combined with a back 5. I can only see us playing with that formation if we drop one of McAtee or Archer which I think we'll be reluctant to do.

 

[PaddysMad]

Not the bloke who brought him in then

 

[Bergen Blade]

It will be interesting to see where we go from here. Our solidity in our first PL season was partly down to having 3 orthodox midfielders making it hard for teams to play through us, especially when combined with a back 5. I can only see us playing with that formation if we drop one of McAtee or Archer which I think we'll be reluctant to do.

I'm also trying to look at possible tweaks, but it seems hard to find a team that looks ideal.

I had a hope that Archer would do a Andy Johnson and look a threat as a (smallish) lone striker, but he found it tough yesterday. So McBurnie comes straight back in. An alternative is to play him with McAtee as a no 10. But dropping Archer seems wrong, especially with us playing 3 of the next 4 away and need pace on the break.

McAtee - Souza - Hamer with two strikers seems too attacking, although we may try it in a home game. Hamer - Souza - Davies may be worth trying?

At some stage we have to try Hamer in the role he favoured at Coventry, i.e. as one of two central midfielders. I worry a bit that we'll keep playing him in different roles and find out too late how good he can be in his best role. Him and Souza with McAtee left and ... Bogle right midfield, if Baldock returns. I'd try that I think.

 

[Pintor75]

Take the option of Ayew, if only for back up

 

[Booker4]

Think it's harsh on Hudson because he's still under the remit of Hecky and Hecky is the main man. I doubt very much that Hudson is saying to our defence right as the ball comes in drop off the man and jog, or when the ball comes in don't track your man etc etc! We're exposed and conceding goals from crosses because we're up against 80/20 possession and the quality of crosses and finishing is far better than what the players are used to. Not blaming Hecky either.

Yes were opened up several times yesterday but prior to yesterday we only have lost by one goal so it's a bit harsh to jump on his back after yesterday. Let's see how respond next weekend and hopefully we'll be back to a more solid defensive performance like we've had so far. Yes teams have missed chances before that but that is always going to happen.

 

[AWetFlannel]

I didn't quite mean it that way.

We weren't quite prepared when the season started. We had injuries and our transfer business hadn't finished. So we started the first few games realising it was going to be bloody difficult and our tactics showed that. We focused on being hard to get through, had little possession and didn't press high.

Eventually we managed to make some more signings and at some stage I bet the management were keen to see if we could start playing a more attacking game, a bit more like last season, pressing higher and being agressive, front foot and all that. I think they hoped Newcastle would be the right occasion.

The management decide our approach. Within that approach, a defensive coach will try to prepare the team the best he can, but it's not easy when you have mediocre defenders and the opposition have great forwards. And to play that way we have to press well as a team, chase in packs, gegenpress, etc, but we haven't managed to do that. It's difficult when you lack athleticism and mobility.

Yesterday I think the management had too much faith in the pressing ability of the front three, and the mobility of Norwood and Souza. It meant the job became harder for our poorly protected back five.

Just my guess: Hudson's defensive coaching may be more like Roy Hodgson's. Men behind the ball, keep the right distance between players and lines, push over as a unit and keep focus.

Think this is spot on. Watching our CBs fly 10 yards out to press midfielders, with an already high line, was very aggressive.

I get the idea, Newcastle have just had to battle midweek in Milan, not had a great start to the season, go out and try to take the game to them. We simply don't have the quality. Not in the press, not in our organisation, not on the ball.

With Ndiaye, this could have worked. No chance without him.

 

[JayGreen17]

He has to go, it’s like the back are completely disconnected, prone to errors that were not there last season and just not fit. What has happened to Anel?!

We also bought Trusty why isn’t he playing!

 

[LBA_Blade]

Ultimately we allowed 22 shots against Newcastle yesterday, which is unacceptable at any level never mind the Premiership. They had 15 on target and as we know scored 8. We are looking at a conceding a shot approx. every 4 minutes of play. When we have 1 shot on target all game and 8 in total it was only going to go one way. The answer is up to the players and Hecky and co but a repeat no-show performance could be curtains for a few.

 

[Nick Jansky]

the appointment is odd, he was quite bad. sacked by cardiff after 5 months as they thought he was taking them to L1 & we thought he would be perfect for our defence

There is a world of difference between being a manager & being a defensive coach. They aren’t even close to being the same job.

 

[SB_90]

There is a world of difference between being a manager & being a defensive coach. They aren’t even close to being the same job.

maybe but you would assume that he would set up his team in similar defensive way

 

[Nick Jansky]

maybe but you would assume that he would set up his team in similar defensive way

That doesn’t necessarily follow. You set up your team according to the players you have available to you. Which is why, for instance, we don’t play with 4 at the back.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Egan was once great, fearless defender, but his new roll in recent seasons is to initiate play from the back…He and his defensive cohorts are far too slow and one footed to do this in the Prem. For any quick witted striker, it’s just like taking candy from a baby.

 

[BrisBlade]

I have often disregarded four at the back on the basis it's not how we're set up. However, our squad is different this year and we're struggling to accommodate Archer, McBurnie and McAtee without sacrificing the middle of the park.

Thoughts on Baldock, Anel, Trusty and Thomas at the back (very harsh on JLT I know), Souza behind Davies and Hamer in the middle with McAtee in front and McBurnie and Archer up top?

 

[brownblade]

Made up a rumour that Bettis headbutted Hudson on Monday morning. Can anyone verify?

 

[Stanthemanfan]

Wait.....we've got a fitness coach??

How's he manage to get apparently elite athletes blowing out of their arses after 50 minutes?

More like a shitness coach......

 

[FTPE]

At some stage we have to try Hamer in the role he favoured at Coventry, i.e. as one of two central midfielders. I worry a bit that we'll keep playing him in different roles and find out too late how good he can be in his best role. Him and Souza with McAtee left and ... Bogle right midfield, if Baldock returns. I'd try that I think

In a 4-4-2? Who would your center halves be?

 

[Bergen Blade]

In a 4-4-2? Who would your center halves be?

No, after watching Egan and JR play centre halves in a back four after the break on Sunday, I'm sceptical about us trying that again soon.

Here's a suggestion. I think it looks a bit negative, lacks pace for breaks, but the aim would be to stay in the game for as long as possible. 5-4-1, if not at West Ham, maybe at Arsenal?

Wes
Baldock Basham Ahmedhodzic Trusty Thomas
Bogle Souza Hamed McAtee
McBurnie​

The centre halves weren't part of my thinking in the post you replied to, but I decided to try something a bit new!

 

[FTPE]

No, after watching Egan and JR play centre halves in a back four after the break on Sunday, I'm sceptical about us trying that again soon.

Here's a suggestion. I think it looks a bit negative, lacks pace for breaks, but the aim would be to stay in the game for as long as possible. 5-4-1, if not at West Ham, maybe at Arsenal?

Wes
Baldock Basham Ahmedhodzic Trusty Thomas
Bogle Souza Hamed McAtee
McBurnie​

The centre halves weren't part of my thinking in the post you replied to, but I decided to try something a bit new!

I agree. Center halves came immediately to mind though because as much as I like the idea of McAtee and Bogle wider the thought of either of our centerbacks being in a 4 scares me (unless Trusty and Anel could drum up a partnership).

I like it, I like the look of the Bogle/Baldock and Thomas/Macca pairings. I also don't think we have the belief or ability to counter attack affectively just yet anyway. It's solid, but it doesn't have to be compact, there's legs in there.
It ends the high press, but that wasn't working this season anyway.

 

[Melton Blade]

One of the issues that needs addressing is that our CBs are not physically big enough. Witness 3 headers from set pieces in last 2 games. Burn was too physical for Anel plus Richarlison beating Bash & then floated free kick from Trippier nodded in.

Although JLT has battled hard he is not dominant in the air & Trusty may make a positive difference. Sadly with McBurnie not heading corners etc away we look liable to concede all the time. Our starting Back 3 are poor in the air.

Watch out for Soucek on Saturday. West Ham will load the box on Saturday - this is basic stuff really.

UTB

 

[Wards]

No, after watching Egan and JR play centre halves in a back four after the break on Sunday, I'm sceptical about us trying that again soon.

Here's a suggestion. I think it looks a bit negative, lacks pace for breaks, but the aim would be to stay in the game for as long as possible. 5-4-1, if not at West Ham, maybe at Arsenal?

Wes
Baldock Basham Ahmedhodzic Trusty Thomas
Bogle Souza Hamed McAtee
McBurnie​

The centre halves weren't part of my thinking in the post you replied to, but I decided to try something a bit new!

Not too dissimilar to my suggestion on the other thread - an old school 5-4-1 might be a good option for games where we know we'll be up against it, especially away. I think you could even make a case for Larouci in the left midfield role if we wanted even more solidity and pace on the counter (albeit I'd struggle to leave McAtee out). I also wouldn't be averse to having JLT at full back for extra height & aggression.

 

[JayGreen17]

One of the issues that needs addressing is that our CBs are not physically big enough. Witness 3 headers from set pieces in last 2 games. Burn was too physical for Anel plus Richarlison beating Bash & then floated free kick from Trippier nodded in.

Although JLT has battled hard he is not dominant in the air & Trusty may make a positive difference. Sadly with McBurnie not heading corners etc away we look liable to concede all the time. Our starting Back 3 are poor in the air.

Watch out for Soucek on Saturday. West Ham will load the box on Saturday - this is basic stuff really.

UTB

How tall is Trusty? gerrim in!

 

[Balham]

How tall is Trusty? gerrim in!

1.91m according to the OS which is 6'3" in old money and 0.995 on the Balham scale so he's tall. He's also 17kg (nearly 3 stone) heavier than Robinson so would hopefully be more physical in the set piece battles.

Robinson, for what it's worth, is 1.80m (5'11"); Egan 1.88m (6'2") and Ahmedhodzic 1.95m (6'4").

 

[BerksBlade]

Anyone got Jake Wright's phone number?

 

[LBA_Blade]

Wes
Baldock Basham Ahmedhodzic Trusty Thomas
Souza
Bogle McAtee
Hamer

McBurnie

Do you think a back 6 including Souza if told to sit deep would, I know we are limiting options up top however if Souza sat deep and man marked, Archer potentially for McBurnie if pace was a concern however we could pick off their attacking threats and play for a draw. Wouldn't be exciting to watch and might frustrate the home crowd, but we aren't going to stay in the league by making friends.

With West Ham they can set-up in a few ways however most common and most likely with us, is what they did with Luton which is a in a 4-2-3-1 with Antonio up top and Ward-Prowse in the 3 and Soucek and Alvarez sat in deepish as the 2 and a straight back 4. If Souza is straight on Antonio at all times and Trusty on Ward-Prowse, you can start to break up their attack and we still have 4 left over to man mark whoever else is needed. Bringing back McBurnie for corners etc with looking to catch them on the break with Hamer/McAtee sat up field

They haven't yet had a clean sheet in the Premiership and have conceded a few 3s. The major concern as highlighted above is Soucek at set-pieces and we need to either drop back McBurnie to pick him up or hope Ahmedhodzic has a decent game and can spot the obvious.