Shoreham Street Appartments Scheme - Approved.

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The worrying thing about this development is that it seems to extend into the area where the bar and food outlet is located, and further round towards the kop steps. Can anyone itk tell us how much, if any, space will be left for the fans?
 
Balham Blade said:
Looking at the space reserved for "future expansion of Valad stand" I wonder whether there's the potential, should United ever get to that stage, of rotating the pitch through 90 degrees and creating a new Kop where the South Stand is now. That would allow the Bramall Lane end to be expanded forward as there's currently no chance of that being extended (unless it bridged Bramall Lane itself).

Pipe dreams I know.
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I've spent a few hours wondering this as well (sad I know), as well as time working out how to extend the BL stand over BL and have the road run through a tunnell...

Somehow I don't think it will be an issue in my lifetime...
 
I BELIEVE LEYTON ORIENT HAS APARTMENTS ON 2 CORNERS OF THEIR GROUND , WHICH ARE FUNDING A NEW STAND
Chelsea has a hotel and luxury apartments
We have a corner that looks derelict at the moment that has a portable bookies office on it,that was considered for office space, but theres hundreds of empty offices throughout Sheffield
Why does everything have to have a sinister motive ? the kop expansion had offices on it , its just been changed to living spaces

capturesu2.jpg
 
blade too long said:
I BELIEVE LEYTON ORIENT HAS APARTMENTS ON 2 CORNERS OF THEIR GROUND , WHICH ARE FUNDING A NEW STAND
Chelsea has a hotel and luxury apartments
We have a corner that looks derelict at the moment that has a portable bookies office on it,that was considered for office space, but theres hundreds of empty offices throughout Sheffield
Why does everything have to have a sinister motive ? the kop expansion had offices on it , its just been changed to living spaces
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At the same time, blindly accepting anything that comes our way is really not healthy. Previous developments have done nothing for us so far. If you're clear exactly how the profits (or loss) from this development will impact on the football club, I'd love to hear it - because we all want it to be a positive thing.

UTB
 
alcoblade said:
At the same time, blindly accepting anything that comes our way is really not healthy. Previous developments have done nothing for us so far. If you're clear exactly how the profits (or loss) from this development will impact on the football club, I'd love to hear it - because we all want it to be a positive thing.

UTB
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Alternatively, tell us why this affects the football side of the club? Tell us how the corner of John st and Bramall lane has affected the club, tell us how the hotel has affected the club.
 
SwissBlade said:
Alternatively, tell us why this affects the football side of the club? Tell us how the corner of John st and Bramall lane has affected the club, tell us how the hotel has affected the club.
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We've done a lot of developments, and to be absolutely honest Swiss, I can't think of anyone who's clapped them along more than yourself. Even the ridiculous decision to extend the ground to 44,000 when we were in the 2nd division was applauded by yourself. We got away with it, and just lost another £500,000 for the effort.

We get complicated accounts that the best brains can't decipher - so what do we know - that we're a division below when we started, and tens of million in debt doesn't nearly cover it. The assets the debts paid for have been removed from the club, and what's more, the assets the debts didn't pay for have been stripped form the club - and yet when we start another development you're here again, blindly clapping along. We're so in debt we can't hold on to the better players for more than 5 months - but guess what - you're right behind the sales as ever. It really isn't "healthy", though you seem to think it is.

I am not saying it's bad by the way, and it doesn't seem many are. But the "clappers" are taking it to new low of attacking ANY questioning of it.

UTB
 
alcoblade I'm not attacking any questioning of it, I'd just like someone to tell me what the problem is. On the flip side of your argument, we read every day how all of these non football projects affect the club and rip the soul out of our club. It's ok for you to question the club, but not for us to question you?

I have backed the stadium expansion. I wanted the World Cup at the the lane, when we were just relegated from the premier league and having near capacity attendances it seemed reasonable. But go back through the archives, I said that we would need to stabilise those attendances for a few years before we expanded the ground.

As I've said in the past my priority as a fan is towards the footballing side of things. And whilst you quote debts and third tier football, I'll ask again, how have the non football projects affected the football (positive and negatively).

So as you talk of finances, The club have maintained over the years since premier league relegation that we have had the highest wage bill in the divisions we've been in. Is that not true? Personally I don't like that, I'd rather have the right players in than the highest paid, but that's another subject

Has the football club been saved by the other projects and Scarborough or has the clubs attendances of now 50% capacity and high wages and long term commitments been propped up the other parts of the business?

Is money being taken out of the football club to finance these projects?

Personally I don't know and in some respects I don't care about the non football projects, but you asked the questions of some on here, I thought I'd throw it back to you. It seems that the negative views on here are the only ones allowed to ask the question. Everyone else gets mocked as a clapper, which is probably by your own admission, ridiculous.

I've always found you to be someone that enjoys a good debate without stooping to playground name calling, but it seems your stance since the Blackman sale has altered the way you post.
 
SwissBlade said:
Has the football club been saved by the other projects and Scarborough or has the clubs attendances of now 50% capacity and high wages and long term commitments been propped up the other parts of the business?.
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Honestly, I really struggled to read past that bit. I take it was a joke without the smiley, but whatever........(Do I need to ask it tens of millions of debt have forced the need to sell our top striker to a Premier league club for little over £1M after only 5 months, really?)


As for the clapper bit - I apologise for using that as I hate the division of clapper and knocker - we are all somewhere along spectrum - but as you seem to have framed me as from the dark side (I've said nothing unreasonable in this thread, other than repeated the need for us all to be questioning and I seriously can't believe anyone hasn't at least learned that lesson), It comes clear that you and (to be fair only one or two) others are so determined to see the bright side that it has become beyond belief. I'll endeavor to find a better word than "clapper".

UTB
 
alcoblade said:
Honestly, I really struggled to read past that bit. I take it was a joke without the smiley, but whatever........(Do I need to ask it tens of millions of debt have forced the need to sell our top striker to a Premier league club for little over £1M after only 5 months, really?)
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Well i should be flattered that you made it over half the way through my post before you struggled ;)

Was it a forced sale? None of us on here knows that. Will it turn out to be a bad sale? perhaps we'll know at the end of the season. Is it related to the other projects?

And for the record, i am not determined to see the bright side, I just don't see the need to panic like yourself. January was a bad month, we sold one player, all of a sudden the season is doomed... yet 3 weeks later we're back in second slot... Perhaps look at your ownself and see if you are determined to only see the dark side.

Personally I try to remain objective in my views.

But back to the question which you didn't want to answer, Is football club money being taken out to finance these other projects or is the rest of the business group propping up the football club? I don't know that answer by the way
 

Blimey,

The problem as I see it is if, the flats are sold either individually or en masse, then the new owners or tenants, shall have the right to object to any planning applications in future.

The kop needs replacing as it is ancient and uncomfortable, therefore the present plans, brought in hurriedly (that incorporate this outmoded existing structure) will need wholesale revision and probably a new application being made.
It is then that the development of that corner as housing may come back to haunt the club.
Other clubs have bought up housing on adjacent streets to allow for development and obviate planning issues from over-shadowed dwellings and their inhabitants. Despite advice (from me at least) SUFC never bought up the houses on John Street and the J. Street stand is restricted in height for that very reason. It seems to me mental to actually build new dwellings which shall only generate a minimal profit at risk of blocking future plans of our club, which, you never know may actually become successful at some point in the future!
 
How could they buy the houses on John St ? Some of the residents have been there for decades ,including a mate of mine. Going back to the Springsteen concert ,the community complained about it and many were given free tickets ,which we flogged in advance and then paid touts just 4 quid on the day of the concert. Could never understand people who buy a house next to a football stadium and then complain about crowd problems.
 
sitwell said:
How could they buy the houses on John St ? Some of the residents have been there for decades ,including a mate of mine. Going back to the Springsteen concert ,the community complained about it and many were given free tickets ,which we flogged in advance and then paid touts just 4 quid on the day of the concert. Could never understand people who buy a house next to a football stadium and then complain about crowd problems.
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Ditto, people who buy or move into houses next to pubs or clubs
 
You offer the owners good money for them. The cost of those houses is chicken-feed to the likes of McCabe. You make the owners an offer they cannot refuse and you know what? its still chicken-feed. Especially compared with players' wages. We shall have had players on more a week than the cost of a house on John Street.

Like I say, other clubs have done it.
 
When i was manager at Kiveton one twat had a house behind the goals and would never return balls ,complained about noise and generally was as awkward as possible. The cops openly admitted he was a wanker but were duty bound to attend to his complaints. The ground has been there since the 19th century the house for 30 years ,and that twat for 5 years ,why buy it ?
 
Wapping Blade said:
Haha - there are some of those fuckwits in our village who rent a newish house next to the very old pub and continually bitch and moan about it and it's a country pub, hardly West St on a Satdi neet!
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In our case, it was a couple who bought a house opposite the Norman church and started a petition to have the church bells silenced. They posted letters to everybody nearby, which started "Dear Neighbour...."

The bells still chime, many years later and they never moved, so it can't be that big a problem for them.
 
sitwell said:
I'll endeavor to find a better word than "clapper".

Supporter ?
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I wondered when you'd appear. :)

To be honest, your group would struggle to fill a table these days. The rest can just see the shit when they see the shit. The the other table has Mic, MPJJacko and a few others on it.

You could all throw food at each other. :)


UTB
 
SwissBlade said:
But back to the question which you didn't want to answer, Is football club money being taken out to finance these other projects or is the rest of the business group propping up the football club? I don't know that answer by the way
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I was asking that question Swiss. It was you that got all arsey about it.

To repeat - it's very difficult to know how the cash flows between these deals - even the accountants struggle. What's clear is that we're s a division below when it all started, with a shit load of debt and not even a purple patch along the way to debate if it was all worth it, unlike say Pommpey. And we surely don't need to debate whether the disastrous decisions (all supported by you) are now having a negative impact on us?

But I find it almost alarming that, given the shit we've found ourselves in, some ( e.g. you) seem to want to refuse to even question the motives. You are fooling yourself to suggest you are objective about these things. And, really sadly, people like Sitters are reduced to questioning the "support" of those who do.

UTB
 
alcoblade said:
If you're clear exactly how the profits (or loss) from this development will impact on the football club, I'd love to hear it - because we all want it to be a positive thing.
Click to expand...


Bump - Just for the sake of my own sanity.

UTB
 
alcoblade said:
I was asking that question Swiss. It was you that got all arsey about it.

To repeat - it's very difficult to know how the cash flows between these deals - even the accountants struggle. What's clear is that we're s a division below when it all started, with a shit load of debt and not even a purple patch along the way to debate if it was all worth it, unlike say Pommpey. And we surely don't need to debate whether the disastrous decisions (all supported by you) are now having a negative impact on us?

But I find it almost alarming that, given the shit we've found ourselves in, some ( e.g. you) seem to want to refuse to even question the motives. You are fooling yourself to suggest you are objective about these things. And, really sadly, people like Sitters are reduced to questioning the "support" of those who do.

UTB
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Ha ha asking you to answer was a case of me getting arsey? Give over alco.

Don't get confused alco, I'm not making excuses for where we are or apologising for the mistakes made. We are where we are, I don't claim (like some) to have the answers about why were here. But I maintain an objective view on each issue that I comment on. Such as this planning approval. Does it directly affect the football - no I don't think it does. It's on land which is currently used by some run down toilets and a poxy couple of food kiosks. So as long as they relocate the toilets and kiosk then the fans and the football dot get affected by it. Again unless you know better...

By the way, which disasterous decisions have been supported by me?

I support the football club, many on here take greater pleasure in the other business dealings of our owner and the Scarborough group.

You're right, the accounts are confusing and yes we're in debt, but as we're still able to bring in a number of players during the JTW and only lose one player (reportedly for 3-4 times what we apparently paid) AND it does not seem to affect the team performances/ results negatively (at least so far) then I'm not going to throw my teddies out if the pram.

So on the face of it, with the information that you have, you can't even state how this current project will affect the football side of things. You haven't also linked any of the other projects to the football side - certainly not directly.

What we do know is that decisions have been made on the football side of things which HAVE affected where we are. Mainly these have been managerial decisions and decisions such as transfer policy, loan v permanent signings amongst others.
 

SwissBlade said:
Ha ha asking you to answer was a case of me getting arsey? Give over alco.
.
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I asked the question posted above - you jumped in and demanded I said why it would be bad, before I dared question if it were good or bad. Mistaken at best, arsey at worst.

SwissBlade said:
By the way, which disasterous decisions have been supported by me?
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The short answer is, all of them (other than perhaps Robson). On numerous occasions I have questioned the ramping up of debt. The ground expansion plan, which we were pursuing long after the huge debt pile had been exposed, was an out and out joke. And you kept justifying it way beyond the sell by date.
SwissBlade said:
So on the face of it, with the information that you have, you can't even state how this current project will affect the football side of things. You haven't also linked any of the other projects to the football side - certainly not directly.
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At this point I begin to question if you've been on the sauce all day. Is objectivity taking a neutral view on whether a +£50M debt and associated interest charges is good for the club?

We sell our top scorer, our chairman says "I hope he stays" - we get loan replacements at the death of the closure of the transfer window, and you "objectively" suggest this is part of planned strengthening.

As you opened with - "give over".

UTB
 
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