Retained List

[Roygbiv]

Osborne I can just about stomach just because of his ability to fill a number of different positions (albeit poorly)

But Fleck? Seriously ? They guys has basically hidden all season starting at Scunthorpe pre-season. I was questioning his ability at champ level let alone Prem.

That decision alone gets the chimes of doom going in my mind that we actually have no money to spend and that we are in ver real danger of beating Derbys lowest ever points total.

That’s despite me telling all my Derby hates that their record would stand as long as I have a hole in my arse.

John Fleck signing a contract will not dictate whether we are going to get the lowest points total

 

[Tarqs]

John Fleck signing a contract will not dictate whether we are going to get the lowest points total

We clearly intend to start him and Osborn every game..

10 points incoming.

We'll probably buy Lundstram to join em.

 

[Houston_Blade]

They are not retained - I think that technically they are "released" and so free to talk to other clubs , but we happen to have made them what must be a lowball offer.
Otherwise , why would we not simply exercise our 12 month extension option (assuming we had one)

They should be lowballed, anything more than a lower level championship wage is too much for either of them.

 

[Roygbiv]

They should be lowballed, anything more than a lower level championship wage is too much for either of them.

I think/hope this is what's happened. If we offering even a higher Champ wage surely they'd have just signed?

 

[Keen Blade]

I think/hope this is what's happened. If we offering even a higher Champ wage surely they'd have just signed?

Let them go into the marketplace and see if they can beat our offer - if they do , good luck to them - I would rather bring in some young players for positions 20-25 in the squad , which is what their ranking would be at the Lane.
God forbid they would be regular members of the matchday squad.

 

[Keen Blade]

By the way , is it 18 in a PL matchday squad (or more) ?

 

[nickwr37]

Will lowball offer not be an increase on reaching PL regardless? eg well you are on £10k PW now but our offer is £12k PW now should you accept it or up to you, as we don't really want you, but need to keep our numbers up as we're skint regarding incomings. It's a shame as if we really wanted you to stay we'd have offered you £20k PW.......

 

[Ranmoorblade]

Will lowball offer not be an increase on reaching PL regardless? eg well you are on £10k PW now but our offer is £12k PW now should you accept it or up to you, as we don't really want you, but need to keep our numbers up as we're skint regarding incomings. It's a shame as if we really wanted you to stay we'd have offered you £20k PW.......

No they’re out of contract, you can offer what you want maybe even less than what they were on.

 

[Charlieblade]

Paul Heckinbottom is keeping his powder dry. He has a very low budget to work with, so he will retain the services of enough players to field a team in EPL.
Worst case scenario, he cannot buy the players he wants, and the loan availability will not come out until the last minute.
At all costs he will want to avoid the kind of injury list that nearly broke us last season.

If he has to field a side with Fleck and Norwood starting he has the option to do that if all else fails.

I don’t want to see him forced to spend his tiny budget on bargain basement players who end up being sold or released later due to age and injuries.

Without further investment, his job is secure because the nasty Prince made him do it. PH is too proud to accept failure, so he will do the very best he can with whatever he has got.

Short of pulling 2 or 3 Anel type signings out of his hat, he will have a big job on his hands. Get used to it, this is SUFC this season.

 

[BrisBlade]

I will be shocked and delighted if JOC is on the retained list having made a full recovery... I just struggle to imagine JOC's return actually happening. Fingers and toes crossed though!

Note to self: crossing fingers and toes is no guarantee of a successful outcome.

 

[BrisBlade]

I am surprised folk are surprised at the list (Eastwood excepted). Fleck, Osborne and Robinson are far from the worst players out there. I hope they all sign up (could just be on holiday).

I'll be happy if we sign a few higher quality rather than replacing 8+ on a shoestring. A new defender, two new midfielder, and a striker would do for me. Maybe a goalkeeper and LWB (may be able to find this from selling Lowe) if we're feeling flush.

 

[Jan Age]

John Fleck signing a contract will not dictate whether we are going to get the lowest points total

Not on its own but it does lend to support that we may be in very serious danger of signing a lack of players of a suitable standard which in turn will mean a low points total.

Nothing we don’t all already know - the current squad is some way off being able to compete at this level - not over the course of a full season.

 

[Jan Age]

You mean when he was recovering from his episode ?

He’s been poor for a fair old while mate regardless … sounds harsh but he should be nowhere near the starting 11 now and IMO should have been released.

In fact I would have sold when Arsenal were interested and cashed in on maximum value and then brought in a higher standard replacement - this is something that we don’t do well at all.

 

[blade67]

I think/hope this is what's happened. If we offering even a higher Champ wage surely they'd have just signed?

What if the club have offered £x with a signing deadline of mid June.

Absolutely no incentive to sign early. So I wouldn't read too much into those offers not being signed yet.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

Not on its own but it does lend to support that we may be in very serious danger of signing a lack of players of a suitable standard which in turn will mean a low points total.

Nothing we don’t all already know - the current squad is some way off being able to compete at this level - not over the course of a full season.

Don’t think anything sums it up better than the quote from hecky after the season ended.

If we needed 5/6 signings at the end of last season. And have a small small budget to do so, it makes sense to keep some players so that that lack of bodies doesn’t necessitate having to make 9/10 signings.

We will need a squad and if that includes fleck as a bit part player or on the bench as one of 9 subs. I think that’s ok - same with Osborn for the amount of cover he provides.

 

[ancientblade]

im suprised fleck and osborn have been offered contracts even if its on reduced terms like another poster has suggested think its hecky keeping his powder dry if he cant get the players he wants to come in for me neither of em can be more than 3rd choices in the premier league

 

[blade67]

2 GKs Foderingham, Davies,

7 DFs Ahmedhodzic, Baldock, Basham, Bogle, Egan, Lowe, Norrington-Davies
2MFs Berge, Norwood
4 FWs Brewster, McBurnie, Ndiaye, Jebbison

Forgetting their ages for now and focusing on how likely they are to get a game. Of the contracted players who have been active squad players last season we have 15 players above. 18 if the three below sign up and I'd expect them to.

Fleck, Robinson, Osborn

The group below are talented youngsters who've not really featured in terms of minutes played in the Championship. I'd expect most of these to play a very limited amount of football for us next season. Probably half on loan somewhere else.

Amissah, Coulibaly, Arblaster, Brooks, Buyabu, , Osula, Sachdev

That means 7/8 to come in during the next 2 1/2 months.

 

[Jan Age]

Don’t think anything sums it up better than the quote from hecky after the season ended.

If we needed 5/6 signings at the end of last season. And have a small small budget to do so, it makes sense to keep some players so that that lack of bodies doesn’t necessitate having to make 9/10 signings.

We will need a squad and if that includes fleck as a bit part player or on the bench as one of 9 subs. I think that’s ok - same with Osborn for the amount of cover he provides.

I would agree with Osborne for the exact same reason

Don’t think anything sums it up better than the quote from hecky after the season ended.

If we needed 5/6 signings at the end of last season. And have a small small budget to do so, it makes sense to keep some players so that that lack of bodies doesn’t necessitate having to make 9/10 signings.

We will need a squad and if that includes fleck as a bit part player or on the bench as one of 9 subs. I think that’s ok - same with Osborn for the amount of cover he provides.

I would agree with Osborne for the exact same reason and he’s 28.

But Fleck at 31 with his best years way behind him is a gamble.

Like you say if he hardly makes the first team then that’s ok - do we have an idea of the length of contract offered?

I guess a lot will ride on the players we sign and our current better players starting injury free all season (doesn’t bode well given out track record in this area)

 

[jt64]

John Fleck signing a contract will not dictate whether we are going to get the lowest points total

Well, no, but if the resources we are potentially wasting on Fleck could be used to improve an offer on an incoming signing to get the job done, or be the difference in getting Ndiaye to sign an extension, then it could be very important. He's not going to have been offered really silly wages, but he will have been offered what many people here with no concept of football finances in 2023 think are silly wages

 

[Lord Eddard Muir]

I hope Coulibaly doesn't end up like Lundstram, and turning into a lazy prick. He might not ultimately make it with us but I'm sure the lad has more scruples than that dickhead.

The thing everyone seems to forget about Lundstram is that he was an anonymous bit player who hardly featured in the Championship and looked poor whenever he did, then in that first Prem season he suddenly broke into the first team and was our best player most games.

Admittedly he then pissed it all away in the relegation season... but Coulibaly or Brewster or anyone else for that matter making a similar breakthrough will be crucial to us staying up this time.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Will lowball offer not be an increase on reaching PL regardless? eg well you are on £10k PW now but our offer is £12k PW now should you accept it or up to you, as we don't really want you, but need to keep our numbers up as we're skint regarding incomings. It's a shame as if we really wanted you to stay we'd have offered you £20k PW.......

Not if they were getting paid as top championship players before, which I suspect both were.

They need a chunky pay cut to reflect their current ability and not their ability 3 years ago (although I'd debate all day as to whether Osborn was good enough back then!).

 

[Balham]

Forgetting their ages for now and focusing on how likely they are to get a game. Of the contracted players who have been active squad players last season we have 15 players above. 18 if the three below sign up and I'd expect them to.

Fleck, Robinson, Osborn

The group below are talented youngsters who've not really featured in terms of minutes played in the Championship. I'd expect most of these to play a very limited amount of football for us next season. Probably half on loan somewhere else.

Amissah, Coulibaly, Arblaster, Brooks, Buyabu, , Osula, Sachdev

That means 7/8 to come in during the next 2 1/2 months.

Agree completely. In order of priority, 2x CM, LCB, FW, LWB, CB/RCB and either a third GK or third new midfielder to come in.

Not if they were getting paid as top championship players before, which I suspect both were.

They need a chunky pay cut to reflect their current ability and not their ability 3 years ago (although I'd debate all day as to whether Osborn was good enough back then!).

Pretty impressive if you can spin a debate about whether Osborn was ever PL quality out all day.

"Has Osborn ever been good enough to play in the Premier League for a side with any realistic ambition of staying up?"

"No"

 

[Bladesthorpe]

Free transfers & loans - we can have 5 loans in the matchday squad - but I think there'll be a fee paid or maybe two. Anyway , let's see.

Agree but loans and freebies still need paying a wage that we can't afford.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Agree completely. In order of priority, 2x CM, LCB, FW, LWB, CB/RCB and either a third GK or third new midfielder to come in.


Pretty impressive if you can spin a debate about whether Osborn was ever PL quality out all day.

"Has Osborn ever been good enough to play in the Premier League for a side with any realistic ambition of staying up?"

"No"

Runs around a lot though and reads books so all is forgiven!

 

[Balham]

Runs around a lot though and reads books so all is forgiven!

Chucked a kettle over his house in lockdown too. Lad.

 

[Midland Blade]

Slightly surprised by Fleck getting a contract offer but not sure why people are getting so worked up about him and Osborn being offered something. The fact they haven’t accepted yet strongly suggests reduced terms and being told of limited playing time.

We clearly can’t sign players to fill all the starting positions we need plus premier league quality back-ups for each position, so for the likely limited (in football terms) outlay, for arguments sake maybe 15k (?) per week, the alternatives really are only risky / cheap free transfers who are realistically not wanted by other clubs and are not going to be Premier League quality. Would much prefer to have Fleck / Osborn as a 2nd or 3rd choice backup than to bring in a cheap, risky free transfer who doesn’t know the club or playing style.

 

[Roygbiv]

 

[Weasel]

Clearly with Fleck we have decided he wasn't worth the outlay on the terms he would have been on if we had invoked the option, and the offer will be on much reduced terms you would think. Still think it was a mistake offering Fleck a new contract and I'm hoping he decides to give it a go back up in Scotland. I have loved the guy but it's time to go separate ways.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Agree but loans and freebies still need paying a wage that we can't afford.

Clearly you have some insight into the budget that the rest of us don’t. Care to share, together with source?

Or are you just spouting bollocks?

 

[CrookesBlade]

John Fleck signing a contract will not dictate whether we are going to get the lowest points total

I’d like a siren to go off like on QI every time some bright spark mentions “Derby’s record low points total” that we will ‘definitely’ break despite having a better side than the one we went down with.