Referees

[Bladesthorpe]

Here's my issue with Refs.. They want to be part of Football, are keen as mustard, but were never any good at playing it (the last person to be picked, jumpers for goal posts etc) so became a referee to keep involved. They never played, even at junior level, Sunday morning parks games or owt. They know the rules, but they dont know the 'game' as they have never experienced the situation(s) which they have to make a decision about. The other problem is those making the rules are the same people ( I dont know if any ex players are involved with the FA). We're all human, we all make mistakes, but that's always been part of the game, the odd offside which wasn't, the handball which wasn't, it balances out over the season, but some of the play acting, diving and stopping play by laying down, or feigning a foull or injury only to immediately get back up again thus causing a delay in play just when the better side is gaining momentum, it just does my head in and its this which needs dealing with. I thought you only stopped play for a head injury ? Yesterday McB flicked the ball to one of our players which hit George Saville in the face and he went down in their area like he had been poleaxed.. Ref stops the game, he gets straight back up with a big smile on his face FFS. Ex players, even those who have played at a junior level would make better referees..IMHO

I played for Sheffield boys and played semi professional for 15 yrs and then took up refereeing to put something back into the game so your assumption is wrong.

A ref goes out at pro level and straight away he's facing 22 cheats who try every trick in the book to get other players in trouble, you will see a keeper run 50yds to an incident to try to influence the ref.
I have sat in the family stand for many years and there are two blokes with red and white specs on that have never in all those years seen a United player ever commit a foul, it's always the ref that's got it wrong. Imagine multiplying that by 30,000 and you see the pressure.
As an ex class one referee here's an honest question, would you sit down and play 3 card brag without knowing the rules? No, but thousands go into a football every week and slag the ref but they don't know the rules. Think about it.

 

[Houston_Blade]

I played for Sheffield boys and played semi professional for 15 yrs and then took up refereeing to put something back into the game so your assumption is wrong.

A ref goes out at pro level and straight away he's facing 22 cheats who try every trick in the book to get other players in trouble, you will see a keeper run 50yds to an incident to try to influence the ref.
I have sat in the family stand for many years and there are two blokes with red and white specs on that have never in all those years seen a United player ever commit a foul, it's always the ref that's got it wrong. Imagine multiplying that by 30,000 and you see the pressure.
As an ex class one referee here's an honest question, would you sit down and play 3 card brag without knowing the rules? No, but thousands go into a football every week and slag the ref but they don't know the rules. Think about it.

I think the point is that no one who gets to referee at a professional level can have had 15 years as a semi professional footballer or higher.

There are good local refs (lots of them), who are like yourself and have played at a decent level and want to stay involved after playing.

But professional referees are all virgins and non-footballers and they are taking their years of bullying about being shit at football out on the players!

 

[Varkanoid]

Don't think he was poor for Millwall, he bought their play acting early time

Berge having his hand held for about 4/5 yards wasnt the ref buying their play acting. It was right in front of the linesman. Problem is Berge went over in the worst possible way. If he had gone backwards on his arse and say down it would have dragged their player down too and been obvious to ref and linesman it was a foul ergo penalty.

Ref's seem unable to see that a small touch shouldnt result in the player being polexed I agree but then again our players have been told by Hecky not to go down. They are not good at it. This is because they try to play the game fairly. Unfortunately its that bad it is actually costing us games I`m pretty sure.

 

[Sheffsteel]

There's an elephant in the room that no one has spoke about

VIRTUALLY EVERY FOOTBALL FAN IS BIASED TOWARDS THEIR OWN TEAM

Some decisions are pretty much 50/50, so which ever team doesn't get that decision, the fans of that team feel aggrieved.
Also when ever a team loses then fans always seen to criticise the ref where as when there's a win, it's skimmed over as being "just part of the game".
I predict if we continue to struggle to get results that complaints against the ref will be common on here, but if we win then there'll be no comment
because obviously he will have had a good ref but the fans of losing team will say he's been poor.

Also it doesn't help that players are always trying to gain an edge, going down with minimal contact.
However when there's minimal contact even with VAR and slow mo, it's still difficult to know if the minimal contact could be deemed a foul.
You see experts in the studio and they can't even agree, after seeing several replays, so it proves how difficult it can be on some incidents and can be opinion.

In order to sway the refs decision on future incidents the players always swarm the ref trying to intimidate him.

Basically there's a general lack of respect in football.
Even when VAR clearly shows a decisions 100% correct the manager still tend to highlight the unfairness often saying the pre-agreed rules are wrong.
Anyone remember the Harry Kane injury goal against Sporting that was a few inch offside.
Conti actually said that VAR is killing football and the goal should have been allowed because it prevented a great moment in football from happening.
Try telling that to the Sporting fans and players. Conte also said if if was Real Madrid or Barcelona then VAR wouldn't have got involved.
Weirdly even the national media said the offside should have counted because it was only offside by a few inch and spoiled a great game.

Basically Spurs were great in the 2nd half and thoroughly deserved the last minute goal and it was a historic fantastic moment with the whole stadium erupting
but that doesn't mean you can decide to ignore the rules even if it was a very tight offside, otherwise there would be chaos.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I heard the presenters on Radio Sheffield the other day talking rubbish.

They said VAR should only get involved when there's been an obvious error
It made me laugh because no one can define "what is an obvious error?"actually is
people have different opinions, so the controversy will then be why are VAR not getting involved.

Also the presenters on the Radio Sheffield saying goals should only be disallowed when it's clearly offside.
So we don't have any of the John Lundstam big toe offside decisions anymore.

So what they are saying is 0 to 2 inch offside is allowable however 3 inch offside would be offside
So it just means the problem still persists, it's just the goal posts have been moved.
Imagine a goal being allowed because the player was 2 inch offside.
You can bet the other team would be saying it was 3 inch so should be off side.

I think they will solve offside a 2 or 3 years.
Every player will have a microchip in the front of their shirt (middle of the chest)
and technology will use GPS location tracking and make an instant decision regards whether a goal is offside or not.

 

[Servigliano]

Personally I'd ditch VAR and the fourth official but keep goal line tec. because that is totally infallible (although I seem to remember some team having a goal disallowed against Villa a while back...). Part of the fun of football is its spontaneity and Var robs us of that. Var still gets things wrong - but much more slowly. Just let the ref's decision be final and the fans can rail against decisions as before.
And use the money saved in order to get better/former pro. referees and linesmen.
Never happen though - there's too much money in it for the tec. guys/"expert" commentators, TV, Sky etc.

But furthermore is the tec. actually infallible? just ask tennis pro's and did anyone see the cricket one where the bowler clean bowled the batsman 3/4 of the way up the stumps - but the computers tracked the ball at about 6" over. I think it was in an Aussie Test match.

 

[100% part time blade]

After the Rotherham game I was going to post something similar but didn't get round to it:-

Why is it impossible to apply even the simple rules?
At Rotherham on Saturday, within the first 10 minutes there were at least two obvious dives (possibly 3 or 4) to try and gain free kicks. Instead of the referee waving them away, he should have been waving a yellow card at them.
From my position it was obvious that the Rotherham player put his foot on the pitch each time he took a long throw. Lots of us could see it. It’s a simple rule to enforce but it happens time and time again. To be fair Bogle did the same in the second half.
Just about every throw in is taken from the wrong position – and when a player is told to move back they still creep forward.
Then we have the nonsense of where corner kicks are taken from – something which seems to have crept in during the last few years. If they were playing on a park pitch I could understand why they’d try to get it as far as possible outside the quadrant but there’s really no reason (as far as I see) to do it. Every game now we see the linesman (can’t get into this assistant referee, assuming that is a PC thing to make the linesperson gender neutral) checking to see if the ball is above the line. It would simplify things if the ball had to be placed in the quadrant, could touch any of the lines but not overlap them – practically it wouldn’t make much difference if it did stray marginally over a line.
We see goal keepers persistently holding the ball for more than 6 seconds. On Saturday it was at least 12 seconds on one occasion. They are all guilty of it. Goal keepers faff about pretending to take short goal kicks, then wave defenders away – a lot of it done to waste time.
General gamesmanship is also becoming very tedious. Many managers do it but when the ball goes out of play near to a manager they’ll often throw it away to stop a throw in being taken quickly (Rotherham manager guilty on Saturday) – have seen Alex Neill do it on many occasions.
Ball boys do their best to get the ball back to their players when it’s convenient but delay it for as long as possible if it isn’t or it’s the opposition player needing the ball.
Since they’ve tried to let the game flow and not punish every minor contact it still irritates me to see all the shirt pulling that goes on. I accept when both players are tussling for the ball each of them often have a handful of shirt and it’s well nigh impossible to see who the real culprit is.

All these things are trivial on the face of it but if they were clamped down upon and players knew they’d be punished, they could be ironed out of the game and it would be easier for the referee to actually control the game where more judgement is required. It would improve the game no end if simple rules were actually applied.

Throw-ins should be stationary. No run-up.
This cuts down on time-wasting, cheating, and long-throws - all of which are crap and detract from the game people actually pay to see: skilful football. A throw-in should just be about getting the ball back into play for footballers to start building a new attack. Punting the ball to the corners to try to get a chance to throw it into the box is rubbish. Running seven or eight yards up the pitch before throwing is annoying cheating.

 

[jt64]

Warnock was right about them. Most of them have never played the game and it shows.

I've never understood this line of reasoning. I've never written a film, but can work out that Shawshank is a better film than Police Academy 7, so why should it be a prerequisite for someone to have played at (insert level on pyramid of choice) to know what a handball is?

 

[Bladesman]

I've never understood this line of reasoning. I've never written a film, but can work out that Shawshank is a better film than Police Academy 7, so why should it be a prerequisite for someone to have played at (insert level on pyramid of choice) to know what a handball is?

Well I assume his thought process is that having some level of experience playing football helps you spot things such as gamesmanship better.

 

[Keen Blade]

Our reputation as a club has suffered recently.
We have failed to pay transfer fee instalments.
Billy has been charged by the FA for publicly alleging ref bias.
Our prospective owner has alleged racial discrimination v EFL.
Hecky has publicly said that our players don't get fouls coz they don't go down.
These controversial issues are bound to percolate through to refs.
Is there any feckin wonder we might not be getting a fair shake ?
Dozy & Hecky & the players need to shut up and get on with the job.
It is exactly the wrong time for such headlines & quotes.

 

[Houston_Blade]

I've never understood this line of reasoning. I've never written a film, but can work out that Shawshank is a better film than Police Academy 7, so why should it be a prerequisite for someone to have played at (insert level on pyramid of choice) to know what a handball is?

You’re not a professional film critic.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Our reputation as a club has suffered recently.
We have failed to pay transfer fee instalments.
Billy has been charged by the FA for publicly alleging ref bias.
Our prospective owner has alleged racial discrimination v EFL.
Hecky has publicly said that our players don't get fouls coz they don't go down.
These controversial issues are bound to percolate through to refs.
Is there any feckin wonder we might not be getting a fair shake ?
Dozy & Hecky & the players need to shut up and get on with the job.
It is exactly the wrong time for such headlines & quotes.

I would imagine that we are the team that everyone outside of our club wants to see getting promotion this season the least.

We’ve become a bit moany and entitled. The Wrexham thing didn’t help either.

 

[dsr-burnley]

I heard the presenters on Radio Sheffield the other day talking rubbish.

They said VAR should only get involved when there's been an obvious error
It made me laugh because no one can define "what is an obvious error?"actually is
people have different opinions, so the controversy will then be why are VAR not getting involved.

Also the presenters on the Radio Sheffield saying goals should only be disallowed when it's clearly offside.
So we don't have any of the John Lundstam big toe offside decisions anymore.

So what they are saying is 0 to 2 inch offside is allowable however 3 inch offside would be offside
So it just means the problem still persists, it's just the goal posts have been moved.
Imagine a goal being allowed because the player was 2 inch offside.
You can bet the other team would be saying it was 3 inch so should be off side.

I think they will solve offside a 2 or 3 years.
Every player will have a microchip in the front of their shirt (middle of the chest)
and technology will use GPS location tracking and make an instant decision regards whether a goal is offside or not.

Offside's easy. Stop drawing lines on the pictures, just look at the single frame picture with the old rule in mind, ie. level is onside, and if the picture doesn't prove offside, then it's onside (level).

They have attempted to solve the offside problem by holding up goal celebrations, by disallowing lots of goals that are perfectly legal under the old rules, and by making offside literally impossible for a linesman to judge so he has to let it play out before flagging. How enormous was the problem that needs that degree of "solution"?

 

[jt64]

Offside's easy.

Tell that to the linos that missed that both Watford's first and WBA's second yesterday were both offside

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

Offside's easy. Stop drawing lines on the pictures, just look at the single frame picture with the old rule in mind, ie. level is onside, and if the picture doesn't prove offside, then it's onside (level).

They have attempted to solve the offside problem by holding up goal celebrations, by disallowing lots of goals that are perfectly legal under the old rules, and by making offside literally impossible for a linesman to judge so he has to let it play out before flagging. How enormous was the problem that needs that degree of "solution"?

It should be the position of the feet which determines offside.

All this nonsense about leaning offside should be consigned to the bin.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Tell that to the linos that missed that both Watford's first and WBA's second yesterday were both offside

Watford's first was level, as I remember it. But you're missing my point anyway. My point was that instead of this nonsense of disallowing goals 2 minutes after they were scored because the best estimate of position suggests that one man may have been an inch forward of another, they could do the same job far more quickly and with better results, simply by applying the old rules and accepting that level is a broad brush.

 

[Sheff de party]

I played for Sheffield boys and played semi professional for 15 yrs and then took up refereeing to put something back into the game so your assumption is wrong.

A ref goes out at pro level and straight away he's facing 22 cheats who try every trick in the book to get other players in trouble, you will see a keeper run 50yds to an incident to try to influence the ref.
I have sat in the family stand for many years and there are two blokes with red and white specs on that have never in all those years seen a United player ever commit a foul, it's always the ref that's got it wrong. Imagine multiplying that by 30,000 and you see the pressure.
As an ex class one referee here's an honest question, would you sit down and play 3 card brag without knowing the rules? No, but thousands go into a football every week and slag the ref but they don't know the rules. Think about it.

That’s a different analogy. I don’t get paid to play three card brag. I also do know the rules and I’m fairly sure the referees do too. They’re just so bad at implementing them and make the easy decision instead of being courageous enough to make the right one.

Some of the simply don’t have a clue. Two stand out from last year - Bournemouth away when the ref gave a penalty from fully 40 yards away with their player fouled outside the side. It was a red card and a free kick and he gave a penalty and a yellow.

At the time I thought it was the worst I’d see, but MGW not getting a penalty against them at home was nothing short of farcical.

I take your point but I honestly don’t think they’re biased. They’re just rubbish.

 

[McDonagh Blade]

That’s a different analogy. I don’t get paid to play three card brag. I also do know the rules and I’m fairly sure the referees do too. They’re just so bad at implementing them and make the easy decision instead of being courageous enough to make the right one.

Some of the simply don’t have a clue. Two stand out from last year - Bournemouth away when the ref gave a penalty from fully 40 yards away with their player fouled outside the side. It was a red card and a free kick and he gave a penalty and a yellow.

At the time I thought it was the worst I’d see, but MGW not getting a penalty against them at home was nothing short of farcical.

I take your point but I honestly don’t think they’re biased. They’re just rubbish.

Sorry however can anyone ever explain last minute v QPR at home why is that not a pen on Sander? Ref and lino in perfect position, not given!! Is that just more than incompetence and no explanation afterwards. Think that's got to be up there for EFL to investigate however nothing is ever said. More and more contentious decisions by the week. Then two horrendous decisions v Wrexham at home in their favour, Billy says it as it is, gets called in front of a disciplinary panel what happens to referee Mr Donahue. Either incompetent and should be sacked or investigated at the very least. Btw 2 more pens tonight for Wrexham. Interesting

 

[MobileBlade]

And we're back to the delights of big Keith Stroud on Saturday who at least missed that Rotherham penalty at home (even though we still lost!). Our record with him this season is two 1-0 defeats.

 

[jono_t2000]

I think they will solve offside a 2 or 3 years.
Every player will have a microchip in the front of their shirt (middle of the chest)
and technology will use GPS location tracking and make an instant decision regards whether a goal is offside or not.

I think I posted in here or Twitter same thing few months back. GPS is now at the stage of being scarily accurate.

It's inevitable it will come at some stage, only surprise is it isn't in place already tbh.

 

[jt64]

Btw 2 more pens tonight for Wrexham. Interesting

One man's interesting is another man's "well, it's 2nd vs 23rd in a division where there is enormous financial disparity, I wonder which team will have the ball most and where, and what the result of fouls might be"

 

[dsr-burnley]

That’s a different analogy. I don’t get paid to play three card brag. I also do know the rules and I’m fairly sure the referees do too. They’re just so bad at implementing them and make the easy decision instead of being courageous enough to make the right one.

Some of the simply don’t have a clue. Two stand out from last year - Bournemouth away when the ref gave a penalty from fully 40 yards away with their player fouled outside the side. It was a red card and a free kick and he gave a penalty and a yellow.

At the time I thought it was the worst I’d see, but MGW not getting a penalty against them at home was nothing short of farcical.

I take your point but I honestly don’t think they’re biased. They’re just rubbish.

The Bournemouth game is an easy video to find online.

for one, the ref was nowhere near 40 yards away - that would have put him virtually on half way. Secondly, whether it was a penalty or not is irelevant to whether it should have been a red card, because it wasn't a goalscoring opportunity - two defenders around and the ball going through to the goalkeeper. I reckon your man was lucky not to get red, but that's a measure of the severity of the tackle, not the professional foul rule. Third, when you clean someone out like that the offence happens over quite a wide splodge of the field - it isn't a case of a foul at one pinpoint spot, it's over about a quare yard. If a fraction of that square yard is in the area, then it's a penalty.

Starts at about 40 seconds.

 

[Sheff de party]

The Bournemouth game is an easy video to find online.

for one, the ref was nowhere near 40 yards away - that would have put him virtually on half way. Secondly, whether it was a penalty or not is irelevant to whether it should have been a red card, because it wasn't a goalscoring opportunity - two defenders around and the ball going through to the goalkeeper. I reckon your man was lucky not to get red, but that's a measure of the severity of the tackle, not the professional foul rule. Third, when you clean someone out like that the offence happens over quite a wide splodge of the field - it isn't a case of a foul at one pinpoint spot, it's over about a quare yard. If a fraction of that square yard is in the area, then it's a penalty.

Starts at about 40 seconds.

Ok let’s deal with these points in order.

Yes I’ve exaggerated with the 40 yards. But it’s 30 yards I would guess. Here’s the screenshot and if you can suggest how someone can give a penalty from there, I’m all ears. It’s a shocker.

At no point do I suggest whether it’s a penalty has anything to do with a red card. I don’t say anything about a clear goalscoring opportunity either. You can misrepresent my opinion if you like, but I’m clearly making the same point as you. It’s a reckless, dangerous tackle and I’d have sent him off whether it was inside or outside the box. I know the rules.

Lastly, you can turn up acting like you’re the only person who knows that if an offence carries on into the box it’s a penalty. I also know that. But this is a clear foul with the point of contact outside the box. That rule is for persistent fouling or shirt pulling, not for tackles like this. To argue this went into the box is nothing short of ridiculous.

Not for nothing, but the only thing sadder than me arguing about a crystal clear refereeing mistake last season that now doesn’t matter, is someone supporting another team logging onto someone else’s forum to give it the big one, pretend they have a unique insight into the rules and laughably argue that it was correct.

Let’s go for a pint. We should both get out more

 

[JT89]

I think they will solve offside a 2 or 3 years.
Every player will have a microchip in the front of their shirt (middle of the chest)
and technology will use GPS location tracking and make an instant decision regards whether a goal is offside or not.

That isn't going to take into account wether a players leg is outstretched, or if they're leaning forward etc. So your solution would require the offside rules to be completely re-written which seems fairly unlikely.

It is likely that technology will solve the offside issue sooner or later, but I doubt it'll be in the way you suggest.

 

[1889]

Footballers at every level cheat from the first minute to the last. A nudge here, a push there, claiming a throw in when they know they touched it last etc etc.

Every rule that’s brought in, is abused by the players. The concussion protocol is used to stifle the oppositions momentum, more than it ever is to protect the players long term health.

There’s so much going on it must be a nightmare for the referee, who by virtue of his professional status can have never actually played the game so has no insight, to see everything.

What I would like to see, is blatant dives and feigning injury, where video evidence exists, to be punished with retrospective six game bans.
Also while I’m in charge, I’m making the ‘professional foul’ where a player deliberately takes out another with no attempt to play the ball, a straight red, irrespective of where it is on the pitch.

 

[Sheff de party]

Footballers at every level cheat from the first minute to the last. A nudge here, a push there, claiming a throw in when they know they touched it last etc etc.

Every rule that’s brought in, is abused by the players. The concussion protocol is used to stifle the oppositions momentum, more than it ever is to protect the players long term health.

There’s so much going on it must be a nightmare for the referee, who by virtue of his professional status can have never actually played the game so has no insight, to see everything.

What I would like to see, is blatant dives and feigning injury, where video evidence exists, to be punished with retrospective six game bans.
Also while I’m in charge, I’m making the ‘professional foul’ where a player deliberately takes out another with no attempt to play the ball, a straight red, irrespective of where it is on the pitch.

Completely agree. I’d definitely stop the clock when the ball goes out too. Fans haven’t paid to watch players timewasting. It’s boring and it’s cheating. Obviously might need to amend the 90 minutes part.

 

[SB_90]

i was listening to this earlier

Football Daily - Howard Webb in conversation with Mark Chapman - BBC Sounds

Mark Chapman speaks to the PGMOL's chief refereeing officer Howard Webb.

www.bbc.co.uk

i will slag off referees. like we all do, i was angry yesterday & some of the decisions in the womens world cup final. but i was more positive after listening to this chat & i think we are going down the right road now, i like how they are tackling the dissent & players crowding the referees, how the that Europa league final which was disgrace during & even after was a turning point.

the dark arts ruining the game. i had no idea how bad things had got in league 2 that you were effectively paying for 2 halves & only get 1.

this dreadful tactics we've seen from Norwich, was it Birmingham during the 1st promotion season. that time wasted from minute 1. are now being put a stop to & the players complain but its up to them whether they play 4 mins or 14mins. & i think the game already feels better for it

 

[Yoonited]

I've never understood this line of reasoning. I've never written a film, but can work out that Shawshank is a better film than Police Academy 7, so why should it be a prerequisite for someone to have played at (insert level on pyramid of choice) to know what a handball is?

Not entirely convinced you can reasonably compare two entirely different genres with very different messages,themes,plots and any amount of mis en scene.A bit apples n oranges and pretty subjective non?

 

[Houston_Blade]

but its up to them whether they play 4 mins or 14mins.

From what I’ve seen the amount of time added on means very little. It’s direct action via red and yellow cards that will stop the shithousing and timewasting.

The ref can add as long as they want on but it’s the momentum in a game that helps and if teams are discouraged from breaking this momentum then the game would be massively improved.

A few things that would instantly help:

- Book anyone sneaking yards or taking ages on a throw in THE FIRST TIME THEY DO IT and award the throw the other way.

- Golakeepers fucking about with goal kicks, book them THE FIRST TIME and then 2nd yellow the 2nd time and not the booking in the 87th minute. You had that cunt Stockdale who played for the S6 wankers bragging how he wasted time, book them and send them off.

- Injuries, just make the cunts go off to the side to be treated immediately, no fucking about on the pitch, roll the cunts off.

There are loads more, like diving and free kicks in the wrong place but these are things that people take the piss with and lead to momentum being lost in games.

In fairness, this season shithousery and timewasting will work in our favour more often than not as the underdog, last season though it was infuriating.

These really aren’t difficult fixes and would benefit the game 10x more than VAR at a fraction of the cost.

 

[Rufus Smalls]

The maximum six second rule on the goalie having possession of the ball should be THE easiest to monitor, especially from pitch side. But guess what ?? ….. no, it’s far too difficult for the officials to enforce.