Outgoing? SANDER BERGE ON WAY OUT ?

[robbiez666]

Just musing over what has to happen tomorrow in order for Berge to be sold and (rumoured) 2 players brought in , maybe one permanent or loan with obligation to buy and another on simple loan.
Berge has to have medical & agree terms.
Then we have to physically receive enough of the fee in order to pay EFL and get embargo lifted.
Then our incomers have to have medicals & agree terms.
Then we have to pay a portion of transfer fee and/or loan fee.
I know we live in a world of instant money transfers , but the embargo side of things depends on the EFL moving quickly to assist us in the process.
Is there anyone on here with a knowledge of the systems who thinks this can be achieved ?
Presumably Berge's sale has to go through by lunchtime to allow us to do the incomers' medicals ?

If it was simply one club with a lot of ready cash in for Berge it would be easy.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Just musing over what has to happen tomorrow in order for Berge to be sold and (rumoured) 2 players brought in , maybe one permanent or loan with obligation to buy and another on simple loan.
Berge has to have medical & agree terms.
Then we have to physically receive enough of the fee in order to pay EFL and get embargo lifted.
Then our incomers have to have medicals & agree terms.
Then we have to pay a portion of transfer fee and/or loan fee.
I know we live in a world of instant money transfers , but the embargo side of things depends on the EFL moving quickly to assist us in the process.
Is there anyone on here with a knowledge of the systems who thinks this can be achieved ?
Presumably Berge's sale has to go through by lunchtime to allow us to do the incomers' medicals ?

Just because none of these things have been made public, doesnt mean they haven't already happened.


You can also apply that to the takeover.

 

[Stretch]

Just musing over what has to happen tomorrow in order for Berge to be sold and (rumoured) 2 players brought in , maybe one permanent or loan with obligation to buy and another on simple loan.
Berge has to have medical & agree terms.
Then we have to physically receive enough of the fee in order to pay EFL and get embargo lifted.
Then our incomers have to have medicals & agree terms.
Then we have to pay a portion of transfer fee and/or loan fee.
I know we live in a world of instant money transfers , but the embargo side of things depends on the EFL moving quickly to assist us in the process.
Is there anyone on here with a knowledge of the systems who thinks this can be achieved ?
Presumably Berge's sale has to go through by lunchtime to allow us to do the incomers' medicals ?

There's almost a full day left, which I think would be plenty of time, as terms are likely to have been discussed and agreed already. If Sander's sale is agreed and confirmed by the middle of the afternoon (which would seem reasonable) that club bung a payment across to us and I imagine the EFL can then be paid within minutes, but lets say a couple more hours to be safe. That takes us to dinner time/early evening, so it's just a case of getting players here (if they aren't already), doing a medical and then paperwork & media stuff (the latter of which doesn't need to be done before the deadline anyway).

 

[Harrisblade]

Great points. That’s too many moving parts. Essentially, we have time to sell and not buy.

The only physical issues are the medicals, but football clubs must be used to doing those on deadline days (even if they're done in a private medical centre away from the actual club)
There's no panic about moving money around - the EFL don't require the payments owed by 11pm tomorrow night!

 

[Champagneblade]

One angle that may have been covered but I don't recall is this:

On a pure football basis, getting O'Brien and 10-12m for Berge is a decent deal on it's own.

But more than that, it removes the whole circus we have to go through every window with Berge being linked away. That can't be good for the player or the squad or the management for that matter plus you're only kicking the can down the road by 6 months and there then comes the genuine danger you could lose him for nothing.

We also desperately need a long term replacement for Fleck.

O'Brien's energy could also help Norwood's longevity as he'll be the one going up and down while Norwood may be a bit more lateral, and pinging.

I don't see Berge lengthening Norwood's career. At times we will have a midfield three, others a midfield two and three forward players but less so if we go up. I'm not convinced defensively Berge is as strong when we don't have the ball as what we need.

I would argue Berge's best position could be on the right of a 4-2-3-1, but we don't play this system.

It is a shame this has come about in the way it has i.e. being under embargo, but Hecky swapping Berge for O'Brien plus cash is legitimate move and would potentially leave to us owning the two key midfield spots. It would then also free up Doyle to play a little further forward. Easy to forget that whilst he has become viewed as better defensively then McAtee,. When at Cardiff he created more chances per 90 than anyone. Him playing with more attacking freedom could be a very good thing in the end. How much would City want in the end for him? 8-10m? If you end up with Doyle, O'Brien and a few million for Berge, is that such a bad deal?

 

[Carlton Blade]

You and the usual suspects looking for a reaction to be-little someone

I have been especially careful not to belittle anyone. I asked questions

 

[Blade_In_Sydney]

There's almost a full day left, which I think would be plenty of time, as terms are likely to have been discussed and agreed already. If Sander's sale is agreed and confirmed by the middle of the afternoon (which would seem reasonable) that club bung a payment across to us and I imagine the EFL can then be paid within minutes, but lets say a couple more hours to be safe. That takes us to dinner time/early evening, so it's just a case of getting players here (if they aren't already), doing a medical and then paperwork & media stuff (the latter of which doesn't need to be done before the deadline anyway).

This is great reasoning and makes a lot of sense. But what if the fax machine breaks down?
Contingencies need to be put in place. If only the World Wide Web had been invented

 

[nopigfansintown]

One angle that may have been covered but I don't recall is this:

On a pure football basis, getting O'Brien and 10-12m for Berge is a decent deal on it's own.

But more than that, it removes the whole circus we have to go through every window with Berge being linked away. That can't be good for the player or the squad or the management for that matter plus you're only kicking the can down the road by 6 months and there then comes the genuine danger you could lose him for nothing.

We also desperately need a long term replacement for Fleck.

O'Brien's energy could also help Norwood's longevity as he'll be the one going up and down while Norwood may be a bit more lateral, and pinging.

I don't see Berge lengthening Norwood's career. At times we will have a midfield three, others a midfield two and three forward players but less so if we go up. I'm not convinced defensively Berge is as strong when we don't have the ball as what we need.

I would argue Berge's best position could be on the right of a 4-2-3-1, but we don't play this system.

It is a shame this has come about in the way it has i.e. being under embargo, but Hecky swapping Berge for O'Brien plus cash is legitimate move and would potentially leave to us owning the two key midfield spots. It would then also free up Doyle to play a little further forward. Easy to forget that whilst he has become viewed as better defensively then McAtee,. When at Cardiff he created more chances per 90 than anyone. Him playing with more attacking freedom could be a very good thing in the end. How much would City want in the end for him? 8-10m? If you end up with Doyle, O'Brien and a few million for Berge, is that such a bad deal?

It comes with the territory having good players. Teams will always want your good players. I hope we kick the can down the road for the next five years, and the next ten with Ndiaye. If United can get O'Brien (a player deemed not good enough for Forest in the Prem) the likelihood is that we have no premier league quality midfielders next season. I'd also question whethere there is better value for money out there ala Anel, rather than a Prem player on big wages that moved there for a big fee a few months ago. As much as I like him, Norwood is too slow at the level and isn't press resistant or athletic enough. I wouldn't be building a side around him or signing or retaining players based on his strengths. Unpopular opinion but an ambitious side would probably be moving him on if promoted.

The overlapping centre back system of the Wilder era isn't much of a factor anymore (it looked better with RND at left centre back).. This covered up a lot of midfield inadequacies in the first Prem season. We saw which midfielders were good enough playing an orthodox 3-5-2 in season two after JOC's injury. The only one that looked half decent until his injury has one foot out of the door. Doyle is NGE for the premier league from what I've seen. He looks like a Championship player to me. I wouldn't be desperate to pay a big fee for him. 1-3 million, ok.

Athleticism is a problem for the whole midfield. We leak like a sieve without Berge in there which seems to go under the radar. Not athletic enough, not combatitive enough, not tall enough, not quick enough; no press resistance and thus looking after the ball resulting in hoof and more pressure on our defence.

 

[1 Blade and a cat]

Put yourself in the shoes of the prospective new owner:
You've paid a deposit towards the purchase of the club, rumoured to be £10m.
You've also invested some money towards the running of the club whilst the takeover is being finalised (as widely reported by Nathaniel Hummingbird and several ITK people on here).
You know that there are still several weeks of this transitional period to go where the EFL are assessing your financial credentials for running the club for the next few years.
There is no guarantee that you will pass this assessment, and therefore the takeover may not happen at all.
Before the end of this EFL assessment there is a large bill to be paid to ensure that the current soft embargo is not escalated to a full-on multiple transfer window embargo - which would be disasterous for the club.
Do you plow yet more money into a club that you do not own?
Or do you authorise the sale of an asset to cover the running costs and embargo bill, with possibly some left over to replace said asset with a loan player of a similar quality?

My thoughts too. Then once you have ownership (say March time), you can target the new players for the summer window...... & then splash the cash.

Gonna need to be a Billionaire willing to spend big, for this ugly scenario to turn on its head & come out smelling of rose's though

All we can do is Hope & Pray

 

[Macfarlane21]

The one impression I'm getting from this whole scenario is that our new owners are not particularly wealthy (in football terms). The deposit has been paid, thus legally I imagine we are not allowed to sell assets without their approval. Yes we need to pay off outstanding money owed to ensure no forward embargoes, but I can't see the missed payment(s) being more than say 5 million (purely speculation). So why would the new owners risk promotion to the PL by agreeing to selling Sander? Maybe because financially they are not much better off than the Prince?






































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































2

 

[Igor]

Macfarlane21

Were you left completely speechless by recent rumours?

 

[Sandygate Blade]

Going to be a long day of refreshing pages on this forum and Twitter. I hate deadline day.

 

[1973Blade]

I've spent the last five minutes on this thread thinking that there is a fault with my phone!

 

[Le Cynique]

Is Foxy ITK about Andy67 s ITKness? This is getting confusing!

ITKception

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

It's going to be a fine deadline day, have faith

First step: hurry up and get berge selt

Second step: bring in a player or two in midfield who will actually help us play something like a top 2 side

 

[JJBlade]

It comes with the territory having good players. Teams will always want your good players. I hope we kick the can down the road for the next five years, and the next ten with Ndiaye. If United can get O'Brien (a player deemed not good enough for Forest in the Prem) the likelihood is that we have no premier league quality midfielders next season. I'd also question whethere there is better value for money out there ala Anel, rather than a Prem player on big wages that moved there for a big fee a few months ago. As much as I like him, Norwood is too slow at the level and isn't press resistant or athletic enough. I wouldn't be building a side around him or signing or retaining players based on his strengths. Unpopular opinion but an ambitious side would probably be moving him on if promoted.

The overlapping centre back system of the Wilder era isn't much of a factor anymore (it looked better with RND at left centre back).. This covered up a lot of midfield inadequacies in the first Prem season. We saw which midfielders were good enough playing an orthodox 3-5-2 in season two after JOC's injury. The only one that looked half decent until his injury has one foot out of the door. Doyle is NGE for the premier league from what I've seen. He looks like a Championship player to me. I wouldn't be desperate to pay a big fee for him. 1-3 million, ok.

Athleticism is a problem for the whole midfield. We leak like a sieve without Berge in there which seems to go under the radar. Not athletic enough, not combatitive enough, not tall enough, not quick enough; no press resistance and thus looking after the ball resulting in hoof and more pressure on our defence.

If we go up it will be embarrassing
If we don't go up it will be even more embarrassing

 

[Macfarlane21]

Macfarlane21


Were you left completely speechless by recent rumours?


I genuinely don't know what happened to my post, tried to edit and it wouldn't let me. Now I look mental

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

If we go up it will be embarrassing
If we don't go up it will be even more embarrassing

If we go up we're coming straight back down

If we don't go up the subsequent crash will make the post 2009 decline look glorious

 

[71Blade]

Question if we paid £22m for Berge how can he be worth £20m now into the last year of his contract surely his value depreciates, so is it more likely he is worth closer to £10m. I get the fact you are only worth what someone is willing to pay for you but I cannot see how we take in £20m for Berge ??

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

Wont be 20m

We'll possibly be able to push it to somewhere near 15m but that is all we need. Get 2 players in, get up, and it doesn't matter

 

[nopigfansintown]

Question if we paid £22m for Berge how can he be worth £20m now into the last year of his contract surely his value depreciates, so is it more likely he is worth closer to £10m. I get the fact you are only worth what someone is willing to pay for you but I cannot see how we take in £20m for Berge ??

Transfer inflation. It has basically gone batshit since then. A problem at SUFC is that prices seem ten years behind the reality a lot of the time. Wages even more so. A lot of our fas think 20 million is a lot for a player or than 20 grand a week is a big wage in the championship.

 

[BrisBlade]

If the prospective owner agreed to pay to clear the embargo I would imagine it would be treated as an increase to the (reported) $10m deposit. They may be concerned with the ability to repay this higher amount if the deal falls through. If that's the case, the incoming owner's options seem to be:

A) Pay the debt now on the basis that we are likely to be able to repay at the end of the season (through PL money or a fire sale).

B) Authorise the club to sell Berge to pay the debt now. (Hopefully also authorise some reinvestment to help secure promotion).

C) Do nothing and see if the ownership saga is resolved within the 30 day limit set out in the embargo and if not choose option A at the last minute or face the consequences.

 

[Blade56]

Don’t usually do this but I’ve got a song for O’Brian from Forest if he comes to replace Berge….



Ey, ey,ey,ey
I hope O’Brians better than Freeman…….

It needs some work

 

[nopigfansintown]

It seems that Newcastle are out of the Berge race and that the Brighton midfielder Caicedo is going possibly pushing them into the race.

 

[brownblade]

blank

Delete that please Macfarlane21 - thought my phone was broken

 

[designblade]

Delete that please Macfarlane21 - thought my phone was broken

The ignore button seems to solve this issue

 

[biggiesablade]

The ignore button seems to solve this issue

Thank you!

 

[Selly]

If you end up with Doyle, O'Brien and a few million for Berge, is that such a bad deal?

No - but if you just end up with a few more million for Berge by the end of today, that's far more of an issue for the immediate future.

Sell and strengthen - great news. Just sell - not so much.

 

[KeithEdsgoalWards]

I can't take another day of this. I'm off up moowers for a walk. See you at O'Brien o clock.

 

[Macfarlane21]

Delete that please Macfarlane21 - thought my phone was broken

Trust me, I've tried, my phone glitched whilst posting