Kop needs urgent redevelopment

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Cappy

Cappy

wishful thinking
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Is it just me that doesn't agree with the comments that 'the kop needs urgent development'?

I take issue with two bits of it

1. Needs. Surely people mean they want it to be redeveloped. They'd like nicer seating, more seating, less restricted views, better toilets, few steps etc? But does it really 'need' redeveloping? Need means there are significant consequences if we don't redevelop it and those consequences outweigh not redeveloping?

2. Urgent. Why? Why does the redevelopment need doing urgently?

More than happy to be slated and fully expect the comments of 'we wouldn't have these standing issues if x was done' and 'how can you say it doesn't need doing when we have tickets off sale because of issues' etc, but then I ask you.....so what? Once people start standing/sitting where their ticket is, we go back to normal....all tickets on sale.

I've been in old/middle-aged/new stadiums, and the kop isn't great, but to be honest I love the old shithole. But that's not my point. I just wonder why it 'needs doing urgently'
 

Cappy said:
Is it just me that doesn't agree with the comments that 'the kop needs urgent development'?

I take issue with two bits of it

1. Needs. Surely people mean they want it to be redeveloped. They'd like nicer seating, more seating, less restricted views, better toilets, few steps etc? But does it really 'need' redeveloping? Need means there are significant consequences if we don't redevelop it and those consequences outweigh not redeveloping?

2. Urgent. Why? Why does the redevelopment need doing urgently?

More than happy to be slated and fully expect the comments of 'we wouldn't have these standing issues if x was done' and 'how can you say it doesn't need doing when we have tickets off sale because of issues' etc, but then I ask you.....so what? Once people start standing/sitting where their ticket is, we go back to normal....all tickets on sale.

I've been in old/middle-aged/new stadiums, and the kop isn't great, but to be honest I love the old shithole. But that's not my point. I just wonder why it 'needs doing urgently'
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Because it is not up to modern safety standards for a start if it came to it could it be evacuated in a few minutes? I don't think so sit in the middle behind the goal like I do and it can take 10mins to get out whether I go up and over or down and to the sides.
 
My kop pers needs urgent development, wife went Christmas shopping today. 🤔🤔🤔
 
Why bother?

We could build a new one, join it onto the South Stand and John Street with 15000 seats, include the latest safety features, and Sheffield City Council with their safety executive and the help of their little minions in hi vis jackets will reduce the capacity because somebody got over excited and sung a song
 
I’ve not sat in the kop for about 20 years, so I can’t really comment on the experience these days. But from where I sit in BLUT…it looks so fucking ugly.
 
I love the Kop, but it does have its downsides.
Atmosphere isn’t what it used to be, them pillars get a tad annoying and some cover for a half time beverage would be nice.

When the time/money is right I would like to see it rebuilt, with safe standing, an enclosed concourse and without them chuffing pillars. Maybe attach to the South Stand, but not convinced on that personally.
 
JJBlade said:
Why bother?

We could build a new one, join it onto the South Stand and John Street with 15000 seats, include the latest safety features, and Sheffield City Council with their safety executive and the help of their little minions in hi vis jackets will reduce the capacity because somebody got over excited and sung a song
Click to expand...

Well, that must be acknowledged as a very kind offer, how would you like to pay, sir?
 
ashsufc1889 said:
I love the Kop, but it does have its downsides.
Atmosphere isn’t what it used to be, them pillars get a tad annoying and some cover for a half time beverage would be nice.

When the time/money is right I would like to see it rebuilt, with safe standing, an enclosed concourse and without them chuffing pillars. Maybe attach to the South Stand, but not convinced on that personally.
Click to expand...
So long as the old duffers on SS can't get on the kop, complaining about youngsters and the price of stamps .
 

It does need redeveloping, with modern facilities and better access, egress, and safety addressed.
It is unlikely to happen until accepted common standards of safe standing are adopted for at least half the stand.
The kind of money involved means waiting, instead of doing it piecemeal.
This also gives some priority to the hotel development?
 
Does it need developing? No. It is at the moment still fit for purpose. Everyone who sits on it as I do knows the problems. Evacuation is a bit of a red herring in reality if it's that big of an emergency you do what I told my little sister to do when she started to come with me in the 80s any trouble that's where you go pointing to the pitch. This was in the days before fences. Should it be redeveloped as soon as possible? Yes of course because its holding the club back. The ground capacity has to increase because if we do get promoted, we need the capacity to attract casual fans. We were all casual fans at some point. We need safe standing. We need better facilities. Clubs that don't improve their facilities when they can afford it (key point) aren't standing still, they are going backwards.
 
Ultimately it will be forced on the club. I'm aware of pushback they've been getting re entrance and egress for over a decade. It can't be too long before pushback becomes a gun to their head. More so as the ground - including Kop - is more full, more regularly, and issues are more pronounced now.

Entrance and Egress and standing issues are the obvious ones. These force action. You cannot wish them away either. The latter wont go away imo. There is no record of that ever happening anywhere to my knowledge. So then the question becomes: shall we contract the clubs matchday support at a time we should be growing it , just so we don't have to touch the Kop ? That doesn't really need answering. The real question is will this be a series of incremental improvements (safe standing, post removal), McCabe's two tier plan or a total rebuild?

There are clear commercial reasons around sorting the Kop out. Many similar sized clubs have already had major redevelopment work. They have the ambition to increase their revenues and attendances. You can't be advocating United being overtook off the field by all our competitors, surely? Off the field correlates more often than not to on the field. The Kop and and South are the areas ripe for redevelopment

Facilities. The 'seated' Kop was a temporary solution. At the time it was announced it was a quick temporary fix that would be remedied with major structural work within a decade. Hence the shocking sightlines, poles, leg room, outdoor nature of the concourse, entrance and egress, lack of food and beverage facilities, quality toilet facilities, no shop etc. There is all that land there making next to no money. Terrible when you think about it.

Do these things matter to me? Not really. Do they matter to others? Indubitably. There's a whole different clientele at matches these days. The sport has changed from working class white males, to women and people with more money. We have been forced to throw our matchday (higher paying) fans out. Our more expensive stands are routinely sold out - we can't cater for more . They want better facilities than the Kop. Football has changed and it's never going back imo. Whether that's a good or bad thing is open to debate. United are an anachronism

It's worth knowing that the club did announce the removal of he poles if we stayed up in the Prem one more year. McCabe's Kop plans are available tp be ew somewhere.
 
CarlMcBlade said:
Yeah exactly, I’ll leave that debate to the poor souls who have to stand outside to get a cup of Bovril.
Click to expand...
That's me. Except I don't.
The pillars need to go, that does affect tmatxh watching in every game. Safe standing would be great.
Let's see what the future on the pitch brings. If we have lots of prem money swashing about those things would be good to do, and if an owner comes in with cash to spend then maybe a bigger scheme.
 
Given the fact we’ve had to close it for match day sales due to standing (and the layout meaning exits are blocked, as a result), I’d say this is a reason for saying it needs developing. Add in the restricted view seats (the rake is also too shallow, no leg room) and 1970s level of “facilities” and I don’t think there’s any argument to say it’s fit for purpose.

It’s not urgent, but finances permitting, should be something we look to do at the first opportunity.
 
Last edited:
nopigfansintown said:
Ultimately it will be forced on the club. I'm aware of pushback they've been getting re entrance and egress for over a decade. It can't be too long before pushback becomes a gun to their head. More so as the ground - including Kop - is more full, more regularly, and issues are more pronounced now.

Entrance and Egress and standing issues are the obvious ones. These force action. You cannot wish them away either. The latter wont go away imo. There is no record of that ever happening anywhere to my knowledge. So then the question becomes: shall we contract the clubs matchday support at a time we should be growing it , just so we don't have to touch the Kop ? That doesn't really need answering. The real question is will this be a series of incremental improvements (safe standing, post removal), McCabe's two tier plan or a total rebuild?

There are clear commercial reasons around sorting the Kop out. Many similar sized clubs have already had major redevelopment work. They have the ambition to increase their revenues and attendances. You can't be advocating United being overtook off the field by all our competitors, surely? Off the field correlates more often than not to on the field. The Kop and and South are the areas ripe for redevelopment

Facilities. The 'seated' Kop was a temporary solution. At the time it was announced it was a quick temporary fix that would be remedied with major structural work within a decade. Hence the shocking sightlines, poles, leg room, outdoor nature of the concourse, entrance and egress, lack of food and beverage facilities, quality toilet facilities, no shop etc. There is all that land there making next to no money. Terrible when you think about it.

Do these things matter to me? Not really. Do they matter to others? Indubitably. There's a whole different clientele at matches these days. The sport has changed from working class white males, to women and people with more money. We have been forced to throw our matchday (higher paying) fans out. Our more expensive stands are routinely sold out - we can't cater for more . They want better facilities than the Kop. Football has changed and it's never going back imo. Whether that's a good or bad thing is open to debate. United are an anachronism

It's worth knowing that the club did announce the removal of he poles if we stayed up in the Prem one more year. McCabe's Kop plans are available tp be ew somewhere.
Click to expand...
You make a very compelling case for a complete upgrade. There is never a good time to do it, even if we did have the will, and the money. With perfect hindsight, the best time to do it was during the Covid shutdown.
Now we will have to close down the most iconic and memorable part of the ground, when we eventually get around to it.
What Levy did at Spurs was amazing, and he gave up the whole ground while club games were played at Wembley the best part of two seasons!
The Lane needs to give up the present Kop for only one season, based on the delays and planning requirements for the Tottenham Stadium. It is still a big move necessary for the most devout supporters to be inconvenienced for that time.
If it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing properly.

If the club gets a new owner, the real test of his honesty, would be the same approach to the Kop rebuild, as Levy had during the construction of a new stadium. Risk upsetting the most important and vociferous fans, to provide time and loss of revenue and support for the whole thing to be built properly! Do it once, and get it right. Just shifting the mound of rubble under the old Kop will probably take most of the close season, IMHO.
 
There are three ways to fund such a development

Have a wealthy benefactor owner who’s in it for the long term.

Have a sustained period in the PL.

Borrow the money and spend the next few years paying it off, meaning that our operating budget; our wage bill, would be one of the lowest in the championship (and then, in all likelihood, one of the mid range in L1) until it’s paid off.
 
S64 Blade said:
Given the fact we’ve had to close it for match day sales due to standing (and the layout meaning exits are blocked, as a result), I’d say this is a reason for saying it needs developing. Add in the restricted view seats (the rake is also too shallow, no leg room) and 1970s level of “facilities” and I don’t think there’s any argument to say it’s fit for purpose.

It’s not urgent, but finances permitting, should be something we look to do at the first opportunity.
Click to expand...
The exits aren't blocked with the current standing problem.
If you have 2-3 times the number of people on a row, with any layout, it will give problems.

It's the other things you mention are the issue. Unfortunately they are expensive to fix in terms of the scale of problem.
 

Charlieblade said:
You make a very compelling case for a complete upgrade. There is never a good time to do it, even if we did have the will, and the money. With perfect hindsight, the best time to do it was during the Covid shutdown.
Now we will have to close down the most iconic and memorable part of the ground, when we eventually get around to it.
What Levy did at Spurs was amazing, and he gave up the whole ground while club games were played at Wembley the best part of two seasons!
The Lane needs to give up the present Kop for only one season, based on the delays and planning requirements for the Tottenham Stadium. It is still a big move necessary for the most devout supporters to be inconvenienced for that time.
If it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing properly.

If the club gets a new owner, the real test of his honesty, would be the same approach to the Kop rebuild, as Levy had during the construction of a new stadium. Risk upsetting the most important and vociferous fans, to provide time and loss of revenue and support for the whole thing to be built properly! Do it once, and get it right. Just shifting the mound of rubble under the old Kop will probably take most of the close season, IMHO.
Click to expand...
If true, then the sensible approach would be to almost do it last.
The South Stand should always be the priority, it would give us the higher ROI through corporate boxes and seats which could be added. Those additional seats would then reduce the impact of closing the Kop.
Personally I think it's third in line, behind the Bramall Lane stand, and I sit on Shoreham.
 
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