email from club - NO MORE TICKETS ON SALE IN KOP - standing & wrong seat usage

[Deadbat]

How many people have said there’s nothing the club can do? How many is a “lot”?

Are you suggesting the club, sorry, Abdullah, has rolled over and is doing nothing? Any legal process of this kind takes time and hopefully this is just the club s holding position. Do you know or are you just knocking the owners based on one statement?

As things stand, our income is being hit and there’s a threat of partial closure. Resulting in ST holders being moved to other stands thus reducing income further with less seats available to casuals. Which can be alleviated by a less vehement view about l should be able to stand, at least for the time being.


But no, it’s yuman rights in it. Despite the law being clear.

The “other clubs” argument is a red herring. Inequitable yes, but not within the remit of SCC.

I'm suggesting if the threat of losing 2k to 3k income every week and a potential further loss or stand closure was not enough for the club to act before this I'd be concerned. Whether it be a legal challenge or if that is not possible to properly 'police' the areas in question.


If the club has been warned a number of times yet other than throwing a few extra over zealous stewards up to check tickets...they seem to have done little and/or not communicated that it was going to get to this stage? Surely CCTV could be used to revoke season tickets for those in the wrong areas or persistently standing in congested areas? Granted it would take a bit if work to do this but the cost now is going to hit the club.

Ultimately as much as I think our city's council/SAG are going in on us...it's the clubs job to operate the ground to prevent this happening.

Thus either we accept it (which we may have to do) or challenge it- which doesn't seem to have happened. Stopping people coming who aren't necessarily the problem is not the solution.

The problem is still going to happen unless the club have lots of security/police and actively stop it happening. By that I mean checking tickets and ejecting or banning those in the wrong areas. Sounds heavy handed but those sections will be shut soon anyway so those fans will either not be able to attend or be moved elsewhere.

 

[Foxy]

Can’t believe the club have allowed us to get in the situation that the entirety of the back rows of the stadium are jam packed with mute short disabled women and children.

Someone in the ticket office should have been kidney punching long ago.

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

As for stewarding... They're useless. They're not bouncers or security. They're there to help people to their seats and that's about it. And for the money I don't blame em. It wouldn't be too much hassle for all those coppers outside with video cameras doing nowt to just make a presence on the crowded gangways. Young uns show off with stewards but shit themselves when the coppers show up. When you're in the same seat for years you get to know those around you, and even if they're Blades, they all get a funny look.

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

Palace, the example that YOU actually stated, did exactly that. Moved their loudest from the left into the middle.

Never happen at Lane. Dyed in the wool fans in their same seat for decades won't like it. Even if the reasons are sound and actually for the benefit.

I remember when we played Huddersfield in the play off final. The way they sold tickets was excellent. They advertised a loud section bang behind the goal. Want to be loud and stand up, go there. We don't do that because we have too many fannies crying about standing up. I'm not comparing standing at Wembley in a designated loud/singing section to blocking gangways at Lane, though, before any fannies get wet about it.

But things can be done and organised properly. Displacing some to prevent these issues is of benefit. And if these people don't want to move, tough shit.

 

[Foxy]

Displacing some to prevent these issues is of benefit. And if these people don't want to move, tough shit.

Sorry sir, you are 3dBs below Jonny come lately, you have to sit on the front row of the Kop corner. Tough shit.

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

Sorry sir, you are 3dBs below Jonny come lately, you have to sit on the front row of the Kop corner. Tough shit.

Sometimes tough decisions need to be made. United could THINK about how they could deal with this issue by making maybe one of the flanks an area where the "rules" can be "relaxed" a bit. This also reduces (even only slightly) the need for as many stewards. And the coppers can monitor one section instead of the entire kop. They bottle supporters outside so it can be done.

Or they could keep things as they are and risk it never getting better and having the stand closed down. Let's be reyt, there's maybe 2000 people stood at the back of the kop every week. You're not getting them sat down.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I'm suggesting if the threat of losing 2k to 3k income every week and a potential further loss or stand closure was not enough for the club to act before this I'd be concerned. Whether it be a legal challenge or if that is not possible to properly 'police' the areas in question.


If the club has been warned a number of times yet other than throwing a few extra over zealous stewards up to check tickets...they seem to have done little and/or not communicated that it was going to get to this stage? Surely CCTV could be used to revoke season tickets for those in the wrong areas or persistently standing in congested areas? Granted it would take a bit if work to do this but the cost now is going to hit the club.

Ultimately as much as I think our city's council/SAG are going in on us...it's the clubs job to operate the ground to prevent this happening.

Thus either we accept it (which we may have to do) or challenge it- which doesn't seem to have happened. Stopping people coming who aren't necessarily the problem is not the solution.

The problem is still going to happen unless the club have lots of security/police and actively stop it happening. By that I mean checking tickets and ejecting or banning those in the wrong areas. Sounds heavy handed but those sections will be shut soon anyway so those fans will either not be able to attend or be moved elsewhere.

Again. On what basis are you suggesting nothing has been done? You may be correct of course but it’s the apparent certainty of your claim, alongside the better owner jibe. Without knowing the timeline, particularly if legal action has been undertaken , l can’t see it being as clear cut as you seem to think.

This is an SCC initiative - whatever the real reason - that has been passed on to the fan base with little information as to anything ongoing.

While l do understand the desire for a standing section to increase atmosphere, l find what appears to be a fuck it, l’ll do what l want stance quite disturbing. Any closure will be down to the perpetrators, not the club. As things stand. Can people really want that to happen?

 

[S64 Blade]

I think this thread is a good example of why progress is so slow, to the point of being non-existent, in Sheffield. People are too scared of any sort of change whatsoever. Quick to point of flaws in any new ideas, without having any of their own.

 

[Darthblade]

Sheffield Council wouldn't persecute the pigs in this way ...... always been a biased set of communist scumbags
UTB & FTP

 

[alcoblade]

Sheffield Council wouldn't persecute the pigs in this way ...... always been a biased set of communist scumbags
UTB & FTP

Didn't they reduce their capacity by about 7,000?

Of course, that had no impact on those wanting to actually attend due to the 10,000 other empty seats still left, so it's a moot point.

 

[Foxy]

I think this thread is a good example of why progress is so slow, to the point of being non-existent, in Sheffield. People are too scared of any sort of change whatsoever. Quick to point of flaws in any new ideas, without having any of their own.

I’d suggest it’s more that the best workable ideas are out of the control/realistic reach in the short to mid term.

There’s lots of things that could be tried, but the issue at hand is being clouded by many different interpretations of the issue.

I don’t think there’s much of an appetite for compromise.

 

[west_yorks_blade]

So if this is down to overzealous local jobsworths in SAG, they must have jurisdiction over the Rust Bucket.

I'm sure that some Pigs will stand throughout games (albeit in much smaller numbers ), so why aren't they getting this draconian bollocks thrown at them?

 

[Ecco1889]

Just had a look on ticket site for Burnley tickets,as well as the whole kop being locked,areas of South and John Street are locked as well

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

So if this is down to overzealous local jobsworths in SAG, they must have jurisdiction over the Rust Bucket.

I'm sure that some Pigs will stand throughout games (albeit in much smaller numbers ), so why aren't they getting this draconian bollocks thrown at them?

Their fans won't have made complaints about it.

 

[FB98]

Just had a look on ticket site for Burnley tickets,as well as the whole kop being locked,areas of South and John Street are locked as well

Because they're sold out

 

[west_yorks_blade]

Their fans won't have made complaints about it.

Are you saying that this is based on Blades complaining about other Blades to SAG?

 

[S64 Blade]

I’d suggest it’s more that the best workable ideas are out of the control/realistic reach in the short to mid term.

There’s lots of things that could be tried, but the issue at hand is being clouded by many different interpretations of the issue.

I don’t think there’s much of an appetite for compromise.

But even the longer term solutions; ie a new Kop, when suggested, is shot down.

There’s quite evidently a need for change and accepting the status quo, will only see us stagnate and go backwards.

Whilst the larger capital expenditure projects are out of the question for now, there’s still scope to be creative and engage better with fans to manage expectations and the issue better, at very little cost.

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

I’d suggest it’s more that the best workable ideas are out of the control/realistic reach in the short to mid term.

There’s lots of things that could be tried, but the issue at hand is being clouded by many different interpretations of the issue.

I don’t think there’s much of an appetite for compromise.

Compromise needn't be an issue. We're having to compromise now aren't we? Or do we only compromise when it's authority making decisions?

The club could float some ideas out by their numerous social media channels. Make behind the goal starting from top down a designated area. Check response. A flank of the kop - check response. If the response is an overwhelming majority in favour (make that number what you want - 80% maybe) then make plans for it.

Everything just seems geared in a way to make things easier and more sedate rather than actually TRY something else.

Don't try owt new, it might upset people.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

There used to be a deep trench running across the Kop around half-way down. Dig that out again, perhaps further back (losing 5? rows of seats), have separate entrances back and front from both sides, and tacitly allow standing (but only at their own seats) in the back section. The back section could later become a safe standing section. Apologies if that is a stupid, impossible suggestion, but someone somewhere needs to do some serious thinking soon.

 

[ForgeBlade]

I REALLY don't think this is, or has ever been, about "just" standing. Lots of people seem to be thinking that is the main problem. I think the club mentioned that in the statement because that is the "regulation."

I think it's FAR more about the problem of people moving to stand in seats that aren't theirs, or obstructing the gangways. It's a nightmare to get out at the back of the kop sometimes...people are 4 or 5 deep at the top of the stairs for 90 mins.

For better or worse, we don't have an "official" standing section. Personally I've been stood for the last 10 years or so, purely cos I'm in the middle of the crowd and those in front of me stand. I've got no objection to it at all. What I do object to are those who move from where their actual ticket is, force 10 people into 5 seats, obstruct the gangways, and then launch themselves into the back of you when we score, just because they want a "LIMBS" video for instagram.

Over the 20+ years that I've been up the back of the kop, we have had some ridiculous moments of insane celebration. Remember back to Nuddy bundling home against Leeds in 2002, or Brown's volley against the pigs, or Nade against Arsenal etc etc. For all of those games, people were stood at the back of the kop. It was fine. It was raucous, and at times utterly insane, but it was the norm. Through all of that, we never had anything like what the club said yesterday. And through all of that, it was the same faces around us every week.

Now it seems to be different people cramming themselves into the space each match, and then treating the kop like it's a mosh pit at a Slayer gig every time we score. The crowd has changed, so the way they behave has changed.

I hate the thought of the kop being closed, but if it is, it won't be because people at the back stand up. If it was because of that, it would have happened 20 years ago. It will be because people (and it is, sadly, overwhelmingly a certain demographic) are apparently incapable of sitting (or standing) in the seat on their ticket.

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

Are you saying that this is based on Blades complaining about other Blades to SAG?

Unless SAG have been watching for months and decided there's enough evidence to make an issue of it then fair enough. I wouldn't be surprised if some comments have been made to the club though.

 

[jt64]

Not sure people understand the way that standing could be allowed in this day an age.

It would be rail seating, meaning you stick to your seat but have the option to stand. There will still be a seat there. This is mainly so that area's don't become overcrowded and they can manage capacitys.

That is how it works in seated configuration. In standing configuration you are just allocated a block/area and can go anywhere within it

 

[Foxy]

But even the longer term solutions; ie a new Kop, when suggested, is shot down.

There’s quite evidently a need for change and accepting the status quo, will only see us stagnate and go backwards.

Whilst the larger capital expenditure projects are out of the question for now, there’s still scope to be creative and engage better with fans to manage expectations and the issue better, at very little cost.

But when, stripping the grey areas out of it, the issue is essentially that we are being made to crack down on people ignoring ground regulations and conditions of sale

But even the longer term solutions; ie a new Kop, when suggested, is shot down.

There’s quite evidently a need for change and accepting the status quo, will only see us stagnate and go backwards.

Whilst the larger capital expenditure projects are out of the question for now, there’s still scope to be creative and engage better with fans to manage expectations and the issue better, at very little cost.

Compromise needn't be an issue. We're having to compromise now aren't we? Or do we only compromise when it's authority making decisions?

The club could float some ideas out by their numerous social media channels. Make behind the goal starting from top down a designated area. Check response. A flank of the kop - check response. If the response is an overwhelming majority in favour (make that number what you want - 80% maybe) then make plans for it.

Everything just seems geared in a way to make things easier and more sedate rather than actually TRY something else.

Don't try owt new, it might upset people.

Unfortunately, the regulations are the regulations… we’re essentially talking about the powers that be “ignoring” actively facilitating a workaround to breaking the regulations they are bound by to host a fixture.

The rest of it is all opinion and conjecture… all good discussion points etc, but that’s the long and short of it.

They cannot be seen to be allowing congregation and overcrowding in these areas… we can’t parachute in rail seats, development and the safe standing conundrum need planning for, but that’s not going to solve it any time soon.

In the mean time all we can seemingly come up with so far is shifting other people to unofficially allow continued regulation breaking. It’s an option, one I’m not overly comfortable in the way it’s being presented personally, but it ain’t gonna effect me anyway

Perhaps they have this in mind but in the mean time need to be seen to be taking action and need to work out what impact/numbers it would effect?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

 

[west_yorks_blade]

Unless SAG have been watching for months and decided there's enough evidence to make an issue of it then fair enough. I wouldn't be surprised if some comments have been made to the club though.

Ok - well even if that is the case, you'd think that the wise and safety in all things related to football focussed members of SAG would pop over to the Rust Bucket and confirm what we all know - that those pigs do exactly the fucking same.

 

[Foxy]

Unless SAG have been watching for months and decided there's enough evidence to make an issue of it then fair enough. I wouldn't be surprised if some comments have been made to the club though.

There’s planning, monitoring and debriefing around every single event allowed to take place at the stadium, with multiple parties.

 

[Linz]

But even the longer term solutions; ie a new Kop are suggested, it’s shot down.

There’s quite evidently a need for change and accepting the status quo, will only see us stagnate and go backwards.

Whilst the larger capital expenditure projects are out of the question for now, there’s still scope to be creative and engage better with fans to manage expectations and the issue better, at very little cost.

I don't think people are shooting down the idea of a new Kop. I don't know anyone who doesn't want a new Kop. All I see is people being realistic about the chances of that happening.

Same with safe standing. I haven't seen anyone say it's a bad idea but with the caveat that the club has to adhere to the guidelines before this becomes a possibility. You can't just stamp your feet and petulantly demand it in a matter of months.

And as for "allowing" a standing area in the ground as it is - unfortunately, it's against the law. A blind eye has been turned to a point but it's clearly passed that point. If you want to rail against the injustices of that, then get lobbying Government.

I've also seen a lot of conjecture taken as fact about who complained (local councillors, MPs, sitting down fans etc). It might just as well be a comment from the Police or Paramedics on scene who have raised issues about access? The bodies that sit on the Safety Advisory Group attend every game. Yes, they are watching us. Because they are always watching us.

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

I REALLY don't think this is, or has ever been, about "just" standing. Lots of people seem to be thinking that is the main problem. I think the club mentioned that in the statement because that is the "regulation."

I think it's FAR more about the problem of people moving to stand in seats that aren't theirs, or obstructing the gangways. It's a nightmare to get out at the back of the kop sometimes...people are 4 or 5 deep at the top of the stairs for 90 mins.

For better or worse, we don't have an "official" standing section. Personally I've been stood for the last 10 years or so, purely cos I'm in the middle of the crowd and those in front of me stand. I've got no objection to it at all. What I do object to are those who move from where their actual ticket is, force 10 people into 5 seats, obstruct the gangways, and then launch themselves into the back of you when we score, just because they want a "LIMBS" video for instagram.

Over the 20+ years that I've been up the back of the kop, we have had some ridiculous moments of insane celebration. Remember back to Nuddy bundling home against Leeds in 2002, or Brown's volley against the pigs, or Nade against Arsenal etc etc. For all of those games, people were stood at the back of the kop. It was fine. It was raucous, and at times utterly insane, but it was the norm. Through all of that, we never had anything like what the club said yesterday. And through all of that, it was the same faces around us every week.

Now it seems to be different people cramming themselves into the space each match, and then treating the kop like it's a mosh pit at a Slayer gig every time we score. The crowd has changed, so the way they behave has changed.

I hate the thought of the kop being closed, but if it is, it won't be because people at the back stand up. If it was because of that, it would have happened 20 years ago. It will be because people (and it is, sadly, overwhelmingly a certain demographic) are apparently incapable of sitting (or standing) in the seat on their ticket.

I mentioned earlier in the thread that it's a certain demographic. Mainly 16-25 tops that are the issue. TJB has admitted his dad goes up to stand with him when he goes. I know him, he isn't causing an issue. He's one individual. It's the 4/5/6 18 year olds on their first snakebite and black that are the problem and as you point out, it's more than likely limbs for their social media accounts. And that's another thing, social media has turned that generation into a complete pack of cunts. Self-centred, look at me cunts. There's been mentions of self-policing this problem and telling these fuck wits to piss off. Unless you can properly handle ya sen or don't mind that kind of thing, it isn't going to end nicely.

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

There’s planning, monitoring and debriefing around every single event allowed to take place at the stadium, with multiple parties.

I see. So the Swedish fans standing up didn't require anything of note being made to the club then?

What is the specific issue? Is it standing? Or is standing in the wrong seat?

 

[Foxy]

I see. So the Swedish fans standing up didn't require anything of note being made to the club then?

What is the specific issue? Is it standing? Or is standing in the wrong seat?

May have even contributed to it?

For clarity, at that very match I stood with my daughter, back row of the Kop, outside of my designated seats, in a sell out.

So I’m not against it. She’s under 5’7 though, so I should’ve made her move