email from club - NO MORE TICKETS ON SALE IN KOP - standing & wrong seat usage

[Gimli]

I have zero sympathy with a 5"7 women who chose the back or the KOP not being able to see? Isn't it blindingly obvious the back of the KOP isn't an area for a partially disabled women with 10 & 12 year old kids?
Where as it IS the blindingly obvious area for young lads wanting to stand and make an atmosphere.
You want to sit down pick one of the other 33000 seats in the ground. Really simple stuff.

You keep saying that people have a choice of 33,000 seats. Yet choose to ignore that the reason we’ve had to stop selling Kop tickets is because those at the back aren’t sitting/standing where they are supposed to.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

I’m not pointing the finger at one body or another. Though I’m sure our problem is SAG.

What frustrates me is both the number of people who care so much about not standing, yet purchase seasts in the most obviously stupid places in the kop.

And secondly, those who think the simple answer is to to “just sit in your own seat”, as though there isn’t an underlying problem.

The answer is not stand up and block the gangways though. We know there are underlying problems, we know the Kop isn't a good stand, and we also know that if the club can't manage the existing situation safely then, safe standing areas is a no go, so it beggars belief that those who are blocking the gangways (or are supportive of those who do) somehow think they're part of the solution.

 

[FB98]

You keep saying that people have a choice of 33,000 seats. Yet choose to ignore that the reason we’ve had to stop selling Kop tickets is because those at the back aren’t sitting/standing where they are supposed to.

Because there isn't an area big enough for people wishing to stand, which I have said 4 or 5 times now

 

[Foxy]

Moving people who have no intention of making a noise out from the section we need to generate an atmosphere seems reasonable to every other club. Most of which have an atmosphere better than ours.

Noise can be made anywhere, if there isn’t space/capacity in that location, why don’t the “atmosphere generators” move?

How do the club police that? Stand next to a line in the ticket office to check you are tall enough and attend pre-kick off to make sure you can shout loud enough?

What happens if the newly appointed section (which they can’t be seen to do in that way) is full and people stand where they shouldn’t? Or will the drop off of booted out older and shorter folk cater for a changeover and not result in the problem we currently have?

It doesn’t effect me personally because I moved away from the Kop to get a better view of the match some years ago… but before I did (ironically when the atmosphere used to seem better at least anecdotally) I’d have been one of your problem people to kick out, being too short for most of my time there. Used to make noise though, so you know, you’d have lost that as for some reason my voice disappears on every other stand

There needs to be a solution and an avoiding of an escalation of the situation, but the regulations we have to comply with can’t be ignored, nor is the solution inconveniencing others because people want their space.

 

[bartman]

Certainly wasn't me. The other reason is because every other club in the country has a large area for fans wanting to stand & make some noise & it's quite evident to most that ours should be the back of the KOP.

But do they block the gangways and exits like some of our fans do at the back of the Kop ? That is the issue

 

[Rodders]

Really simple if you're not interested in doing anything to improve the horrendous atmosphere I suppose, yeah. Luckily a minority are

I sit on the Westfield Corner and can barely hear a peep out of the Kop, so those improving the atmosphere are not exactly doing a great job of it.

Unless it’s not about improving the atmosphere, it’s actually about wanting to stand with your mates and fuck everyone else.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

Because there isn't an area big enough for people wishing to stand, which I have said 4 or 5 times now

So if you can't find a space to stand that doesn't block the gangway or means that rows are overcrowded, then sit the fuck down.

 

[Gimli]

Because there isn't an area big enough for people wishing to stand, which I have said 4 or 5 times now

Let’s just do whatever the fuck we want then shall we?

 

[FB98]

But do they block the gangways and exits like some of our fans do at the back of the Kop ? That is the issue

Once again. They do this BECAUSE people 8 rows from the back demand to sit down. So the number wishing to stand have to cram into the 7 rows behind that person 8 rows from the back. If the standing area was big enough to accommodate everyone wishing to stand that wouldn't be an issue. So we need people wanting to sit down 8 rows from the back or the KOP to relocate to other areas

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

Once again. They do this BECAUSE people 8 rows from the back demand to sit down. So the number wishing to stand have to cram into the 7 rows behind that person 8 rows from the back. If the standing area was big enough to accommodate everyone wishing to stand that wouldn't be an issue. So we need people wanting to sit down 8 rows from the back or the KOP to relocate to other areas

The outrage of wanting to sit down in an all seater stand.

 

[Rodley]

I’m not pointing the finger at one body or another. Though I’m sure our problem is SAG.

What frustrates me is both the number of people who care so much about not standing, yet purchase seasts in the most obviously stupid places in the kop.

And secondly, those who think the simple answer is to to “just sit in your own seat”, as though there isn’t an underlying problem.

I too have little sympathy for people buying tickets and wanting to sit right at the back of the Kop.

 

[FB98]

Let’s just do whatever the fuck we want then shall we?

So if you can't find a space to stand that doesn't block the gangway or means that rows are overcrowded, then sit the fuck down.

You think people who want to stand simply sitting down in an other area of the ground is a solution. I don't. I think these people at the back of the KOP being able to congregate is an essential part of our ever declining atmosphere & we need to make sure these people have enough space.

 

[Ace of Blades]

So will this apply to the BL lower tier where the majority of away fans stand throughout the game and (presumably) not at there allocated seat and indeed at most other grounds where away fans are placed. The majority of away games I have attended, in recent times, has consisted of fans standing throughout the game and moving to stand with their mates. Surely this is the same issue or am I missing something?

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

So will this apply to the BL lower tier where the majority of away fans stand throughout the game and (presumably) not at there allocated seat and indeed at most other grounds where away fans are placed. The majority of away games I have attended, in recent times, has consisted of fans standing throughout the game and moving to stand with their mates. Surely this is the same issue or am I missing something?

Are they blocking the gangways though?

 

[Foxy]

So will this apply to the BL lower tier where the majority of away fans stand throughout the game and (presumably) not at there allocated seat and indeed at most other grounds where away fans are placed. The majority of away games I have attended, in recent times, has consisted of fans standing throughout the game and moving to stand with their mates. Surely this is the same issue or am I missing something?

It’s almost like there’s a reason the “jobsworths” at least have a go at trying to clear gangways when we do the same away

 

[bartman]

Once again. They do this BECAUSE people 8 rows from the back demand to sit down. So the number wishing to stand have to cram into the 7 rows behind that person 8 rows from the back. If the standing area was big enough to accommodate everyone wishing to stand that wouldn't be an issue. So we need people wanting to sit down 8 rows from the back or the KOP to relocate to other areas

Those wishing to 'cram' into the those seats could also go to Gangway A of the Kop where these is normally space, and not block Gangways and exits which has caused restrictions on the Kop

 

[FB98]

The outrage of wanting to sit down in an all seater stand.

Almost EVERY SINGLE club I can think of has a significantly larger unofficial standing section than us. And in every single case, that section is where the atmosphere comes from.

 

[alcoblade]

Noise can be made anywhere, if there isn’t space/capacity in that location, why don’t the “atmosphere generators” move?

How do the club police that? Stand next to a line in the ticket office to check you are tall enough and attend pre-kick off to make sure you can shout loud enough?

What happens if the newly appointed section (which they can’t be seen to do in that way) is full and people stand where they shouldn’t? Or will the drop off of booted out older and shorter folk cater for a changeover and not result in the problem we currently have?

It doesn’t effect me personally because I moved away from the Kop to get a better view of the match some years ago… but before I did (ironically when the atmosphere used to seem better at least anecdotally) I’d have been one of your problem people to kick out, being too short for most of my time there. Used to make noise though, so you know, you’d have lost that as for some reason my voice disappears on every other stand

There needs to be a solution and an avoiding of an escalation of the situation, but the regulations we have to comply with can’t be ignored, nor is the solution inconveniencing others because people want their space.

But you know that noise is generated when likeminded people congregate and don't have to sing along to themselves, looking and feeling like a twat.

Not allowing them to do so kills that atmosphere, without a shadow of a doubt.

 

[FB98]

Those wishing to 'cram' into the those seats could also go to Gangway A of the Kop where these is normally space, and not block Gangways and exits which has caused restrictions on the Kop

The solution to the atmosphere issue isn't having our fans most intent on making noise split between gangway A & gangway G, miles away from each other. We need people making atmosphere in the middle of the KOP.

 

[Sean Thornton]

And make excuses, and defend the club when they're indefensible, because they feel a criticism of the club and some of its fans is like a direct attack on them. Blinkered.

Ok, Hillsborough, the stadium that caused all this.

Wednesday have people stood at the back of their Kop, the crows nest and all down the side of the North Stand, by the away fans.

That’s a question for SCC. They are having a go at us. Read @TJB’s post and then tell me there’s no issue. If people continue and there’s even a partial closure, are you going to blame the perpetrators for risking it, or the club that’s not?

 

[AWetFlannel]

So there’s a choice of 33000 seats, but not for those who decide they are more important or more loyal, they should be able to stand where they want?

Not stand where they want, stand in the one place that ought to cause the least disruption to others.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

Almost EVERY SINGLE club I can think of has a significantly larger unofficial standing section than us. And in every single case, that section is where the atmosphere comes from.

I don't think an atmosphere trumps safety.

 

[FB98]

I don't think an atmosphere trumps safety.

Nobody genuinely believes its unsafe other than a few nutcases who wear two masks in their own car.

 

[alcoblade]

I sit on the Westfield Corner and can barely hear a peep out of the Kop, so those improving the atmosphere are not exactly doing a great job of it.

Unless it’s not about improving the atmosphere, it’s actually about wanting to stand with your mates and fuck everyone else.

It's definitely about improving the atmosphere. I sit very nearby and it's clear what's happening.

The fact that the atmosphere is so dead is not the fault of those people. The fact that so many others really don't care is honestly sad (to me).

 

[Sean Thornton]

Then the club should have managed the “escalation” more adequately.

Pressure needs to be put on the Council if we’re genuinely being threatened with closure. Hillsborough has three areas where presumably the persistent standing approach is broken every week. Local Councillors ought to be getting some grief on this from our punters.

Didn’t they add additional stewarding and were more or less compared to Nazi Germany.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

Nobody genuinely believes its unsafe other than a few nutcases who wear two masks in their own car.

If you've got a load of pissed up people blocking the emergency exits, then yes, it is unsafe.

 

[Foxy]

Not stand where they want, stand in the one place that ought to cause the least disruption to others.

Spent most of my adult life standing in stadiums, I’m not against standing…

It is ever so slightly disruptive moving others in order to create your own “likeminded” section though. If it’s not “where they want” then they wouldn’t need to move anybody.

I’ve personally never felt that I’m unable to make noise in any area of a football ground other than having to tone it down if by circumstance ending up in the “wrong end” (with opposition fans) or in opposition corporate areas.

I’m not daft enough to think it’s not effected, but absolutely nothing stops anyone creating an atmosphere in other areas of the ground.

I’m also vehemently against kicking people out from their place because they aren’t in the right gang though.

 

[alcoblade]

If you've got a load of pissed up people blocking the emergency exits, then yes, it is unsafe.

Technically correct. In actual fact, fuck all's happened in 25 years.

 

[sheepbridge]

So there’s a choice of 33000 seats, but not for those who decide they are more important or more loyal, they should be able to stand where they want?

There aren't 33,000 other seats available, there's a maximum of less than 5,000, dotted around the remaining home areas, split across single seats and in areas of the ground with poor visibility which is why nobody bought them as a season ticket.

It would be good to have a standing and singing area, the practicalities are difficult to achieve with the current Kop configuration and I'm not convinced just creating a large area will solve the issue because there will still be those in it who want to be at the back with their mates even if they have seats elsewhere in the section.

One thing is certain though, we have less chance of getting one at present, and zero chance if parts of the ground are closed due to persistent breaking of the rules regarding standing.

 

[Linz]

Nobody genuinely believes its unsafe other than a few nutcases who wear two masks in their own car.

https://sgsa.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/The-management-of-persistent-standing-Final-report.pdf