email from club - NO MORE TICKETS ON SALE IN KOP - standing & wrong seat usage

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

Why does sitting in it for years give you the right to anything? The club decides to allow people to retain their seats, but it isn't a right.

These other people don't want to stand "wherever they want". Who would defend people standing in the middle of the Family Stand? The bias in the way you word it won't allow you to engage with this fairly.

I am engaging with it fairly, I want safe standing zones. But we don't have that, so until we get those, then what that means is that people should be where their seat is, or in an unoccupied seat, not two to a space, behaving like an absolute weapon and getting the kop closed off to non season ticket holders.

 

[CPB]

You do know that the club haven't asked that you sit down all game,don't you ? The issues are to do with persistent standing aligned with fans not sitting in the seats they were allocated.

I would suggest that if fans sat/stood where their seats are, and didn't stand 2/3 to a seat and block gangways(,which they are doing at the back of the Kop, there wouldn't be an issue

This is exactly it I think.
Think part of the safety issue as well is that it overspills and blocks the gangways.

The club would be wise to accelerate the kop redevelopment if they can afford it at all. This could help resolve this issue.

 

[tyke1889]

Because they try to cram into the area that has standing. The area is too small. A larger section of rail seating would give those that want to stand an area they can fit in.

But, but, but, we've got a rail seating ticket for the 10th row from the back. Me and my 5 mates want to stand with our other mates on the back row.

It will still go on.

 

[Rodders]

Why does sitting in it for years give you the right to anything? The club decides to allow people to retain their seats, but it isn't a right.

These other people don't want to stand "wherever they want". Who would defend people standing in the middle of the Family Stand? The bias in the way you word it won't allow you to engage with this fairly.

They clearly do want to “stand wherever they want” due to the fact there’s 2/3 to a seat and all congregating on the gangways.

 

[PaulHalfway]

Speak to Palace, they have a fantastic atmosphere at home, the whole end stands up for the whole match

 

[bertieblade]

But they stand one to a seat and do not block gangways !

 

[AWetFlannel]

But, but, but, we've got a rail seating ticket for the 10th row from the back. Me and my 5 mates want to stand with our other mates on the back row.

It will still go on.

Not to anywhere near the same extent, and not to the point where the council will have to get involved.

 

[Rodley]

Says who?

I think the reference to standing has obscured the issue and some haven't read any further than that.

It's the standing in an area where you haven't been allocated a seat that's the real issue, causing overcrowding and subsequently spilling out and blocking gangways.

The standing in an area which isn’t allocated as your seat (I.e the back of the Kop) has been going on for 30 years. I used to do it from about 14 to 25. There’s just more people wanting to do it now.

The club need to allocate more space.

 

[JackSUFC]

Well well well, if it isn't the start of our downfall. The club alienating its most loyal fans. What could possibly go wrong hmmmm

To be fair, I’d like to think that the club don’t want any of this. They’ve got their hands tied by the council.

What the club can do though is start working with the fans to see if there’s a desire for a safe standing section, then go from there.

Sure, installing one would come at a cost but so will the loss of revenue with the current blocked ticket sales.

 

[tyke1889]

Not to anywhere near the same extent, and not to the point where the council will have to get involved.

I'd hope so, but I'm not convinced.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Round and round we go, without really disagreeing.

There is nowhere in most English stadia that fans can legally stand, and it isn't really an issue. To attack those that want to stand as though they are uniquely bad isn't fair.

Again. Something l haven’t said.

Other clubs aren’t under the jurisdiction of SCC. An organisation not fit for purpose.

 

[AWetFlannel]

I am engaging with it fairly, I want safe standing zones. But we don't have that, so until we get those, then what that means is that people should be where their seat is, or in an unoccupied seat, not two to a space, behaving like an absolute weapon and getting the kop closed off to non season ticket holders.

Ok. Do you accept though that in the mean time, Bramall Lane will have a uniquely bad atmosphere and fail to offer thousands of fans something that is offered at every other ground in the country (standing)?

Got no problem with the opinion that the solution at this point is for those people to stay in their allocated seat. Is there not any sympathy for those being shafted, rather than condescension, bigotry and distain?

 

[AWetFlannel]

Again. Something l haven’t said.

Other clubs aren’t under the jurisdiction of SCC. An organisation not fit for purpose.

Agree, though you did go on a spell of mocking those that stand for creating a shit atmosphere, seemed like an attack to me.

 

[Cappy]

Does anyone know who would be the best person at the club to contact about this?

[email protected]

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

Ok. Do you accept though that in the mean time, Bramall Lane will have a uniquely bad atmosphere and fail to offer thousands of fans something that is offered at every other ground in the country (standing)?

Got no problem with the opinion that the solution at this point is for those people to stay in their allocated seat. Is there not any sympathy for those being shafted, rather than condescension, bigotry and distain?

Honestly, I think you should go and sit in another area of the ground sometimes, I can tell you, the noise generated by a few blokes at the back of the Kop doesn't travel that far, and you're not the only people in the ground that sing.

On the latter point, people who haven't got a seat at the back of the loop, but migrate there anyway and cause overcrowding, are not being shafted. They're being entitled.

 

[Proper Blade]

Two things. 1) There aren’t “thousands” of restricted view tickets. That’s beyond nonsense. 2) THERE IS NO MONEY CURRENTLY FOR GROUND DECVELOPMENT. it’s not hard to grasp.

If we count a restricted view ticket as one with an impeded view of the pitch then yes, there are definitely thousands of them. When was the last time you sat there?

2) Who says there's no money for redevelopment? We're not talking rebuilding the Kop FFS. Were saying ripping out a thousand seats or so. The club are absolutely swimming in cash with the parachute payments and total lack of spending on transfer fees. The idea that we couldn't afford to rip out a few seats at the back of the Kop is absolutely ridiculous. Get real.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Honestly, I think you should go and sit in another area of the ground sometimes, I can tell you, the noise generated by a few blokes at the back of the Kop doesn't travel that far, and you're not the only people in the ground that sing.

On the latter point, people who haven't got a seat at the back of the loop, but migrate there anyway and cause overcrowding, are not being shafted. They're being entitled.

I sit in the SS with my family, but agree it doesn't travel to me very well.

If you can't appreciate that those fans that want to stand have it bad compared to if they supported any other club, I'm not going to win you over.

 

[alcoblade]

Fuck me - Leeds fans stand, almost to a man, behind both goals.

The reason people aren't sitting in their seats is because "Gordon", who's sat there for 20 years, complains about standing. Those who want to are moving to the back, then the stawards get involved. Bear in mind were talking about a tiny section at the back of one side of the kop.

There's a reason Bramall Lane is like a morgue these days. The problem is, too many people accept that and are happy with it.

 

[Proper Blade]

Fuck me - Leeds fans stand, almost to a man, behind both goals.

The reason people aren't sitting in their seats is because "Gordon", who's sat there for 20 years, complains about standing. Those who want to are moving to the back, then the stawards get involved. Bear in mind were talking about a tiny section at the back of one side of the kop.

There's a reason Bramall Lane is like a morgue these days. The problem is, too many people accept that and are happy with it.

And make excuses, and defend the club when they're indefensible, because they feel a criticism of the club and some of its fans is like a direct attack on them. Blinkered.

 

[Sean Thornton]

If we count a restricted view ticket as one with an impeded view of the pitch then yes, there are definitely thousands of them. When was the last time you sat there?

2) Who says there's no money for redevelopment? We're not talking rebuilding the Kop FFS. Were saying ripping out a thousand seats or so. The club are absolutely swimming in cash with the parachute payments and total lack of spending on transfer fees. The idea that we couldn't afford to rip out a few seats at the back of the Kop is absolutely ridiculous. Get real.

Nope there aren’t how many are you closing. 2,3,4?

Swimming in money? Get off the drugs.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

I sit in the SS with my family, but agree it doesn't travel to me very well.

If you can't appreciate that those fans that want to stand have it bad compared to if they supported any other club, I'm not going to win you over.

If the club wanted to designate the kop as a standing zone, I'd be all for it. Obviously people who have sat there for years would have a choice to make as to whether they wanted to stay there or move, they don't have right in perpetuity to their seat.

But what people don't have right to do, is go to where there are no seats available and cause overcrowding. How many of these people are making representations to the club to get safe standing areas designated? Not many I'll bet.

 

[Linz]

The standing in an area which isn’t allocated as your seat (I.e the back of the Kop) has been going on for 30 years. I used to do it from about 14 to 25. There’s just more people wanting to do it now.

The club need to allocate more space.

But they can't be seen to be doing this, even implicitly, because standing in all-seater stadiums is against the law as a direct consequence of what happened down the road.

People have purchased season ticket seats for areas of the Kop where they want to be situated. Some other people have decided that they also want to occupy this space. The club has been told this cannot be allowed to continue, regardless of how "comical" or "pathetic" fans think it is.

Pointing out the rock/hard place that the club finds themselves in isn't making excuses for them. They quite literally have their hands tied in the short-term. Whatever course of action going forwards requires the cooperation of the licencing committee and safety groups, whether that be that the Kop is allowed to be re-opened to matchday sales or rail seating installed.

If the club is seen to not be acting as advised, then they will be ordered to close sections or indeed, the stand.

 

[breeny]

Fuck me - Leeds fans stand, almost to a man, behind both goals.

The reason people aren't sitting in their seats is because "Gordon", who's sat there for 20 years, complains about standing. Those who want to are moving to the back, then the stawards get involved. Bear in mind were talking about a tiny section at the back of one side of the kop.

There's a reason Bramall Lane is like a morgue these days. The problem is, too many people accept that and are happy with it.

Just stand up in your own seat number if you are ‘lucky’ enough to be in one of the ‘standing’ rows.If people have bought a seat and 2 people are stood in it then they have a right to complain. If there is conflict when stewards are trying to sort things out then of course there are going to be issues.

Stay in your seat!

 

[S64 Blade]

I can’t really see from my seat at the back of the South Stand, but is the back of gangway A and B full? Looked back on some pics I’ve taken at recent games and there seems to be some space there (though the side of the SS chops off some of the view).

Could those who wish to stand at the back, and are currently all crowding into G/H on tickets elsewhere, just buy tickets there, if there is space?

It’d mean people who want to can still unofficially stand, without crowding into one small area and pissing others off.

 

[Sean Thornton]

If we count a restricted view ticket as one with an impeded view of the pitch then yes, there are definitely thousands of them. When was the last time you sat there?

2) Who says there's no money for redevelopment? We're not talking rebuilding the Kop FFS. Were saying ripping out a thousand seats or so. The club are absolutely swimming in cash with the parachute payments and total lack of spending on transfer fees. The idea that we couldn't afford to rip out a few seats at the back of the Kop is absolutely ridiculous. Get real.

Cash wise it cost £80m to run the club 20/21. Plus paying off any balances due on transfer fees. Income for that year was £115 m including £101m broadcasting money. Which is now around half. (Those figures are for 11 months.)

 

[Sean Thornton]

Fuck me - Leeds fans stand, almost to a man, behind both goals.

The reason people aren't sitting in their seats is because "Gordon", who's sat there for 20 years, complains about standing. Those who want to are moving to the back, then the stawards get involved. Bear in mind were talking about a tiny section at the back of one side of the kop.

There's a reason Bramall Lane is like a morgue these days. The problem is, too many people accept that and are happy with it.

Leeds come under Leeds council. It may not be a level playing field but this is SCC acting alone.

The other clubs argument doesn’t apply as it’s a decision taken at local not nationwide level.

 

[CPB]

Not sure people understand the way that standing could be allowed in this day an age.

It would be rail seating, meaning you stick to your seat but have the option to stand. There will still be a seat there. This is mainly so that area's don't become overcrowded and they can manage capacitys.
You would still not be allowed to just congregate in a group wherever you like, it would still be standing in the spot your seat is allocated too.

If we can't sit/stand in the seats we are allocated now it's an absolute pipedream we would be allowed railseats/safe standing.

It's really simple, stick to your spot that your seat is allocated too, and this problem goes away.

 

[S64 Blade]

Leeds come under Leeds council. It may not be a level playing field but this is SCC acting alone.

The other clubs argument doesn’t apply as it’s a decision taken at local not nationwide level.

Ok, Hillsborough, the stadium that caused all this.

Wednesday have people stood at the back of their Kop, the crows nest and all down the side of the North Stand, by the away fans.

 

[Rodley]

But they can't be seen to be doing this, even implicitly, because standing in all-seater stadiums is against the law as a direct consequence of what happened down the road.

People have purchased season ticket seats for areas of the Kop where they want to be situated. Some other people have decided that they also want to occupy this space. The club has been told this cannot be allowed to continue, regardless of how "comical" or "pathetic" fans think it is.

Pointing out the rock/hard place that the club finds themselves in isn't making excuses for them. They quite literally have their hands tied in the short-term. Whatever course of action going forwards requires the cooperation of the licencing committee and safety groups, whether that be that the Kop is allowed to be re-opened to matchday sales or rail seating installed.

If the club is seen to not be acting as advised, then they will be ordered to close sections or indeed, the stand.

There has to be some discretion and there is some discretion because we’ve had standing at the back of the Kop for decades.

If other clubs have managed to deal with this situation, we should have managed it better from the get go. The Palace example is one, Leeds have shifted people standing to other side of the pitch in recent history. Are there any other clubs who are facing stand closures for something like this? It’s nonsense. I appreciate we’ve got an over zealous safety group, but stick a row of stewards in that area and keep the steps clear. If we can manage 1,000s of away fans we can manage a 100 people in an isolated area of the ground.

 

[Linz]

There's more reading about the licencing for rail seating here: https://sgsa.org.uk/licensedstanding/

One of the requirements is

Management must demonstrate compliance with the SGSA’s Persistent Standing Enforcement Approach in the ground’s conventional seated areas.

There has to be some discretion and there is some discretion because we’ve had standing at the back of the Kop for decades.

But the discretion was the licencing authority's, not the clubs. They have now decided the matter has escalated to the extent that discretion has expired and action needs to be taken.