Outgoing? SANDER BERGE ON WAY OUT ?

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JL94x4 said:
View attachment 140835

Adama Traore has suffered a significant setback just days into his Hull City career. The ink was barely dry on his MKM Stadium contract when the midfielder picked up a serious hamstring injury in training at the Tigers' training base in Cottingham.

Hull Live understands that the Malian international is expected to be out of action until after Christmas and will now require surgery to repair the tear in his hamstring, dealing a blow to his hopes of hitting the ground running in English football.
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Out injured already? Are we sure he hasn't been training at Shirecliffe?
 

JL94x4 said:
View attachment 140835

Adama Traore has suffered a significant setback just days into his Hull City career. The ink was barely dry on his MKM Stadium contract when the midfielder picked up a serious hamstring injury in training at the Tigers' training base in Cottingham.

Hull Live understands that the Malian international is expected to be out of action until after Christmas and will now require surgery to repair the tear in his hamstring, dealing a blow to his hopes of hitting the ground running in English football.
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Odd Transfermarkt hasn't updated. Those German students in the basement must have been preoccupied with the women's Euros!

Out until Christmas. Sigh of relief on that one then.
 
Is that the £20 million player I've been told about? I suspect Berge's star will never be as high as it was during the time we weren't playing games.
 
He was prime Sandra for periods tonight.

Dallied on the ball. Lost possession. Ambled back.

As much as Sarr and Dennis looked good tonight, wasn't Berge supposed to have the same impact on games for us too?
 
Champagneblade said:
He was prime Sandra for periods tonight.

Dallied on the ball. Lost possession. Ambled back.

As much as Sarr and Dennis looked good tonight, wasn't Berge supposed to have the same impact on games for us too?
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I get what you’re saying but I would argue it’s probably easier to be that type of impact on a game from a winger than from Berge’s position
 
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It's not a knee jerk reaction from last night's result/performance but Berge really doesn't suit Utd's set-up or style of play.

Put a nasty, ball winner and/or an athletic box to box player with Norwood and I'm sure you'd see a difference and would hopefully allow PH to play 3 players in front of them. For all Berge excellent positional play, his impressive passing and the odd run forward, he doesn't offer either of those.

Apart from the last 10 mins in the first half, last night's performance reminded me of the Prem relegation season - no clear plan, no link between mid and att and chasing games against what appears to be far superior opposition.
 
He has got to be moved on, clearly does not want to be here. Should have took the 17 mill for him
 
Mouth of the South said:
It's not a knee jerk reaction from last night's result/performance but Berge really doesn't suit Utd's set-up or style of play.

Put a nasty, ball winner and/or an athletic box to box player with Norwood and I'm sure you'd see a difference and would hopefully allow PH to play 3 players in front of them. For all Berge excellent positional play, his impressive passing and the odd run forward, he doesn't offer either of those.

Apart from the last 10 mins in the first half, last night's performance reminded me of the Prem relegation season - no clear plan, no link between mid and att and chasing games against what appears to be far superior opposition.
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Did we not keep the receipt? 😉
 
Champagneblade said:
He was prime Sandra for periods tonight.

Dallied on the ball. Lost possession. Ambled back.

As much as Sarr and Dennis looked good tonight, wasn't Berge supposed to have the same impact on games for us too?
Click to expand...

His pass completion was 83%, which along with Ndiaye was highest in the team. On occasions he takes his time on the ball before he picks a pass. I wonder if these are the situations where people feel he's dallying on the ball? Are people aware that he often wants a midfielder to come and press him before he passes past him, as that goes a little way of taking a midfielder out of his position. Overall his passing was good last night in a team that lacked attacking threats.

People keep going on about him needing to do what he does best more often. But it's just not about giving him the ball and expect him to bomb through midfields again and again. He needs some space for these runs, some instability in the opposition lines of defence. For various reasons the team didn't achieve that too many times last night.
 
Champagneblade said:
He was prime Sandra for periods tonight.

Dallied on the ball. Lost possession. Ambled back.

As much as Sarr and Dennis looked good tonight, wasn't Berge supposed to have the same impact on games for us too?
Click to expand...
He was in the wrong position. Again. :)
 
Bergen Blade said:
His pass completion was 83%, which along with Ndiaye was highest in the team. On occasions he takes his time on the ball before he picks a pass. I wonder if these are the situations where people feel he's dallying on the ball? Are people aware that he often wants a midfielder to come and press him before he passes past him, as that goes a little way of taking a midfielder out of his position. Overall his passing was good last night in a team that lacked attacking threats.

People keep going on about him needing to do what he does best more often. But it's just not about giving him the ball and expect him to bomb through midfields again and again. He needs some space for these runs, some instability in the opposition lines of defence. For various reasons the team didn't achieve that too many times last night.
Click to expand...
He is efficient on the ball. He's not on the ball nearly enough.

I can't offer the technical breakdown for why that is - but great players influence the game way, way more than Berge does. They influence it despite those around them not always doing it. And generally, wherever they are on the pitch you can see the quality, even if it's not their best position.

Week after week it's about the position he's in not being right, or what others aren't doing for him, or how the formation isn't right for him. It never seems to end.
 

Bergen Blade said:
His pass completion was 83%, which along with Ndiaye was highest in the team. On occasions he takes his time on the ball before he picks a pass. I wonder if these are the situations where people feel he's dallying on the ball? Are people aware that he often wants a midfielder to come and press him before he passes past him, as that goes a little way of taking a midfielder out of his position. Overall his passing was good last night in a team that lacked attacking threats.

People keep going on about him needing to do what he does best more often. But it's just not about giving him the ball and expect him to bomb through midfields again and again. He needs some space for these runs, some instability in the opposition lines of defence. For various reasons the team didn't achieve that too many times last night.
Click to expand...

He also needs players around him to pass to, particularly in front of him. If we'd had their front two last night we'd have had a better target to aim for and even if they weren't available to give it to feet we'd have at least been able to play the ball over the top knowing the pace on our front line would still cause problems, which is what Watford did time and time again.

Edit: and for the benefit of the comment above, this doesn't just go for Berge, it's all of our midfield. If there's nobody to pass to they'll end up losing it or trying to force a pass that isn't on.
 
Bergen Blade said:
His pass completion was 83%, which along with Ndiaye was highest in the team. On occasions he takes his time on the ball before he picks a pass. I wonder if these are the situations where people feel he's dallying on the ball? Are people aware that he often wants a midfielder to come and press him before he passes past him, as that goes a little way of taking a midfielder out of his position. Overall his passing was good last night in a team that lacked attacking threats.

People keep going on about him needing to do what he does best more often. But it's just not about giving him the ball and expect him to bomb through midfields again and again. He needs some space for these runs, some instability in the opposition lines of defence. For various reasons the team didn't achieve that too many times last night.
Click to expand...
Pass completion means very little though without context. A lot of passes can be backwards and not progress the team at all yet they will increase the individual's stats.

I was more specifically thinking about him and Osborn messing about on the right touchline and losing possession. He was also very slow to cover Baldock at one point down the right hand side after having contributed to a turnover in possession.

I don't recall him making any runs to the touchline which became a hallmark of when he was doing well at the end of last season.

The team didn't play especially well. But Berge was also part of that. It's not that he was excellent but everyone else let him down. N'Diaye was probably the only one who looked like he might realistically make something happen, Jebbison's opportunistic effort on half time not withstanding.
 
Champagneblade said:
Pass completion means very little though without context. A lot of passes can be backwards and not progress the team at all yet they will increase the individual's stats.

I was more specifically thinking about him and Osborn messing about on the right touchline and losing possession. He was also very slow to cover Baldock at one point down the right hand side after having contributed to a turnover in possession.

I don't recall him making any runs to the touchline which became a hallmark of when he was doing well at the end of last season.

The team didn't play especially well. But Berge was also part of that. It's not that he was excellent but everyone else let him down. N'Diaye was probably the only one who looked like he might realistically make something happen, Jebbison's opportunistic effort on half time not withstanding.
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You mentioned losing possession in your summary. The stats suggest that wasn't something that was typical of his performance. His overall passing was good, not great, in my opinion. The mix up with Osborn looked frustrating for them as well as us. Agree that Ndiaye was our best player.
 
Bergen Blade said:
The mix up with Osborn looked frustrating for them as well as us.
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Champagneblade said:
I was more specifically thinking about him and Osborn messing about on the right touchline and losing possession.
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Without defending him too much, thought it was obvious from Berge’s reaction on that one that he’d been waiting for Osborn to move into space down the line to receive the ball, rather than remain fixed in position. It’s tricky to play defence splitting passes to build attacks when the team is static.
 
alcoblade said:
He is efficient on the ball. He's not on the ball nearly enough.

I can't offer the technical breakdown for why that is - but great players influence the game way, way more than Berge does. They influence it despite those around them not always doing it. And generally, wherever they are on the pitch you can see the quality, even if it's not their best position.

Week after week it's about the position he's in not being right, or what others aren't doing for him, or how the formation isn't right for him. It never seems to end.
Click to expand...

I think it's futile to keep comparing him to Zidane, Scholes or whoever. I don't see Berge as a world beater.

He's got weaknesses. Heading technique, laughable. First line pressing is disappointing - rarely gets close to make tackles or blocks. Bravery, poor. General size can be a hindrance against nippy runners changing direction. Also make him require breathers between the maximum sprints of his. Not 'busy'. Body language make some fans think he's not interested.

But I think there are ways to make more effective use of him. I have views like that on most players. On what it takes for them to work better in the team and perform better individually. Not just "Is he good?", but also "Who is he good alongside"? Tactical stuff, tweaks that changes dynamics and the team's balance. I'd welcome your views on this.

But Alco, in your ongoing (never seems to end? ;) ) campaign to make two or three real or imaginative posters come to the realisation that he's not the new Pele are you even given that a thought?
 
Champagneblade said:
Pass completion means very little though without context. A lot of passes can be backwards and not progress the team at all yet they will increase the individual's stats.

I was more specifically thinking about him and Osborn messing about on the right touchline and losing possession. He was also very slow to cover Baldock at one point down the right hand side after having contributed to a turnover in possession.

I don't recall him making any runs to the touchline which became a hallmark of when he was doing well at the end of last season.

The team didn't play especially well. But Berge was also part of that. It's not that he was excellent but everyone else let him down. N'Diaye was probably the only one who looked like he might realistically make something happen, Jebbison's opportunistic effort on half time not withstanding.
Click to expand...

It's also far too simplistic to just say "he gave the ball away". In what context did he give the ball away? Was it an easy pass that went astray, was it an attempt at a decisive through ball? If there's little movement around you then your options are a simple backwards pass or to keep hold of it, which will see you lose it eventually anyway. Berge's stats suggest he helps the team keep the ball. From what I recall there weren't many opportunities to make decisive forward passes. Did you see that differently?

*again, this goes for other players.
 
Bergen Blade said:
I think it's futile to keep comparing him to Zidane, Scholes or whoever. I don't see Berge as a world beater.

He's got weaknesses. Heading technique, laughable. First line pressing is disappointing - rarely gets close to make tackles or blocks. Bravery, poor. General size can be a hindrance against nippy runners changing direction. Also make him require breathers between the maximum sprints of his. Not 'busy'. Body language make some fans think he's not interested.

But I think there are ways to make more effective use of him. I have views like that on most players. On what it takes for them to work better in the team and perform better individually. Not just "Is he good?", but also "Who is he good alongside"? Tactical stuff, tweaks that changes dynamics and the team's balance. I'd welcome your views on this.

But Alco, in your ongoing (never seems to end? ;) ) campaign to make two or three real or imaginative posters come to the realisation that he's not the new Pele are you even given that a thought?
Click to expand...

Bergen Blade , I always bow (seriously) to your superior knowledge of the game. I can't offer many tactical tweaks that would get more form him, other than to pay him more advanced as that's the only time I've seen him excel for us.

My real fear is that, at worst, he just doesn't have the engine for the English game - and no matter what we do that will remain a big problem. At best, he watches the game go by waiting for the ideal situation to protect his statistics, always shying from the dirty stuff and rarely trying what he excels at, because the moment isn't perfect

My simple change would be to demand that he gets more involved, or we move him on. But it's down to him, not position, or those around him.

Even in your (previous) analysis, it doesn't seem to be about what Berge does wrong - this time it's the players around him not making space for him. My main objection is the endless line of excuses that are offered (not by you specifically). Many posters who offer these excuses also talk in terms of him commanding huge fees. The two can't go together. If he's that good, he can demonstrate it independently of the excuses served up.

My negativity isn't based solely on Berge - but it's here where there's so much to go at.

Jebbison not being ready (less so), Fleck and Stevens getting past it, McBurnie being a cart horse - it seems the forum is generally as one on this, so it doesn't draw the same debate. :)
 
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I really believe that what this team needs to help it play effectively is a midfield enforcer. With a player like that in the team, we get to see if that’s what Berge needs alongside him and we create and strong base for players like Khadra, Ndiaye and maybe McAtee to shine.

I’ve no idea where we get one from, but I reckon every team needs a player who can break up the opposition’s play and get things moving.

Anyone got any ideas where we get a midfield enforcer from? What’s Sam Morsy doing these days 🥳😂
 
Champagneblade said:
He was prime Sandra for periods tonight.

Dallied on the ball. Lost possession. Ambled back.

As much as Sarr and Dennis looked good tonight, wasn't Berge supposed to have the same impact on games for us too?
Click to expand...
Absolutely this.

Looked like he did not want to play.

Can count on one hand the amount of standout performances which isn’t good enough for £23m
 
Mouth of the South said:
It's not a knee jerk reaction from last night's result/performance but Berge really doesn't suit Utd's set-up or style of play.

Put a nasty, ball winner and/or an athletic box to box player with Norwood and I'm sure you'd see a difference and would hopefully allow PH to play 3 players in front of them. For all Berge excellent positional play, his impressive passing and the odd run forward, he doesn't offer either of those.

Apart from the last 10 mins in the first half, last night's performance reminded me of the Prem relegation season - no clear plan, no link between mid and att and chasing games against what appears to be far superior opposition.
Click to expand...

I've said this on other threads, but last night Berge covered every position and every blade of grass, after 75 minutes he looked knackered and disinterested as though he was wishing he was somewhere else - and soon he might be! to a club that appreciate him and develop him!
 

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