Rivalry

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BladeFisher

BladeFisher

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Whilst checking something to post I noticed that it was stated on a Wiki site that the Steel City Derby was arguably the most intense in England.

Given there are many posters who live 'darn sowf' do you think this is a fair reflection and why is it?

On the whole I thouht same city rivalry tended to be more patronising than hatred but the Sheffield derby certainly has a big edge to it. Is it in the Sheffield/Yorkshire psyche or what?

The Merseyside derby struck me as just scouse comedy banter and the Manc one not much worse. London is a different case but what about Birmingham, Bristol, Nottingham or (asking your Yorkie grandad who might remember) Bradford? Are these just as intense or more like the Merseyside one.
 



In pubs in Liverpool on the day of the derby the pubs in the city centre are generally mixed with no trouble , I have heard a few story's of "firms" fighting but could be rumours

The last story in the local papers of any trouble at the derby was a guy who got glassed (apparently by other evertonians) trying to get his young son away from some trouble outside a pub .the atmosphere is generally pretty friendly and nothing like the pure hate you feel in sheffield on derby day , when I tell scousers about the pubs having to shut and the high level of violence they seem genuinely disbelieving
 
Not sure which Manc derby you've been involved in, but it's all out war right across the city! The match itself, regardless of which ground, is a tough enough proposition - but the city centre and small town pubs are usually pretty tasty for the whole day. Less of a worry if you're a neutral, but get mistaken for blue or red in the wrong place on derby day and you'll get totalled. The tension before a derby is just like ours, grown men can't sleep or eat. The big difference being how much the media focus on the game intensifies it further - witness the City fan caught crying after losing a mid-season game against Swansea, I guarantee he was thinking about all the shit he'd given the reds he knows and how much he was going to get back. It's our derby in parallel - although even United fans don't rival Wednesday in their arrogance, at least they've done something in the 30 years they taunt City about.

Merseyside is just banter for the most part - but spend time with Evertonians and you realise that the 'friendly derby' is only a veneer, and given the right circumstances all kinds of hatred and vitriol comes spilling out.

Midlands derbies seemed really tame when I lived down there - although they get a bit heated once they get there. Working with a load of Blues and Villa fans I once forgot it was the derby until the fighting was on the local news that night - virtually no antagonism in the run-up in the office. Wolves and West Brom used to get a bit mardy with each other - but with that accent it was difficult to tell from their normal day-to-day demeanor. Any games between the four teams other than those two didn't seem to register.
 
All the scousers sit together holding hands - that way they know their pockets won't get picked.

---------- Post added at 04:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:14 PM ----------
BladeFisher said:
Whilst checking something to post I noticed that it was stated on a Wiki site that the Steel City Derby was arguably the most intense in England.

Given there are many posters who live 'darn sowf' do you think this is a fair reflection and why is it?

On the whole I thouht same city rivalry tended to be more patronising than hatred but the Sheffield derby certainly has a big edge to it. Is it in the Sheffield/Yorkshire psyche or what?

The Merseyside derby struck me as just scouse comedy banter and the Manc one not much worse. London is a different case but what about Birmingham, Bristol, Nottingham or (asking your Yorkie grandad who might remember) Bradford? Are these just as intense or more like the Merseyside one.
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Burnley/Blackburn has got to be the worst.
 
Don't know about other derbies, but our kids a piggy, and if I saw him on penistone rd getting larey,he'd defo get a slap. Utb.
 
GRUMPY BLADE said:
Burnley/Blackburn has got to be the worst.
Click to expand...


Certainly one of the most violent. I remember Burnley fans smashing up their own town after they lost to Blackburn at Turf Moor a few years ago (£10 million worth of improvements)

I think there are different kinds of derbies. Some have a 'big match' atmosphere. Some are just violent. I've tended to think of the Sheffield derby as being of the first variety - big build up, very edgy, very tense, but little actual violence. Certainly in many years of going I've never seen any major problems.

I agree with Cheshire about the Midlands derbies. Bizarrely low-profile affairs. I notice that often the crowds are no bigger than the home side's normal crowd. I'm not sure what the reason is for that, but it's as if they're not really interested in one another.

The other one I'd mention is Newcastle v Sunderland. One thing that strikes me is that when you meet someone from one of those cities, they often throw a lot of 'digs' at the other city into their everyday conversation. The rivalry between the cities (never mind the football clubs) seems to be very important to them.
 
The other one I'd mention is Newcastle v Sunderland. One thing that strikes me is that when you meet someone from one of those cities, they often throw a lot of 'digs' at the other city into their everyday conversation. The rivalry between the cities (never mind the football clubs) seems to be very important to them.[/QUOTE]

he's right i think. Newcastle Sunderland is the absolute worst. iv lived there 6 years and i have never seen anything like that. football can turn any jovial conversation into an argument. people get stabbed and allsorts. the pub across the road from me in Newcastle, on a saturday night when i was in there, someone got glassed and they didnt even stop the music.

i also have it on good authority that the Rome derby is essentially a warzone. they close roads off and allsorts. my mate swears blind someone managed to throw a scooter onto the pitch once. and they still have the fences!
 
Each rivalry has an element of hatred, we're no different there and yes the derby games get intense, get nasty sometimes and can spill over sometimes. This isnt unique to Sheffield, its the same in Glasgow, Moscow or Milan.

I was at uni with Mackems and Geordies claiming the biggest derby, but it was never worse than ours, we just didn't claim our rivalry was bigger.

In terms of day to day rivalry the city isn't divided like Glasgow or separate cities like the Tyne v wear v tees. We mix on a day to day basis and have the banter. I think we interact with pigs a lot more than many so called intense rivals.

Ours just gets very intense a week or so before derby days and a few days after... Unless its at wembley, then we travel together!
 
I think down South then West Ham vs Milwall and Pompey vs Saints are probably the most intense rivalries. They fucking hate each other. There's always a lot of violence at these fixtures. Most of the others have been mentioned. Glasgow is devided when Rangers and Celtic play, Newcastle and Sunderland is similar to Portsmouth and Saints, i the sense it is too cities close to each other that have an intense rivarly. Midlands derbies are tame, though I don't know what East Midlands derbies are like (all shitholes and can be quite rough/violent). Scousers stick together and that is reflected in their derbies.
 
Has anyone any experience of Saints V Pompey? Heard thats quite a tasty one.
 
Kev Gee said:
Has anyone any experience of Saints V Pompey? Heard thats quite a tasty one.
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I used to go out with a bird from Southampton wo reckoned it went back to the war when the Merchant sailors from Southampton thought they got insufficient protection from U boats from the Royal Navy at Portsmouth.

Swansea and Cardiff can be pretty nasty too.
 



WalthamstowBlade said:
I used to go out with a bird from Southampton wo reckoned it went back to the war when the Merchant sailors from Southampton thought they got insufficient protection from U boats from the Royal Navy at Portsmouth.

Swansea and Cardiff can be pretty nasty too.
Click to expand...

Surely this is one for Pompey?

In the original post I drew the distinction between inter - city rivalries and same city rivalries. Inter city ones are usually more bitter but then do you feel that the rivalry betwen Utd and Leeds is more intense than Utd and Wednesday? What is Leeds/Wednesday rivalry like?

You see I think when there are two clubs in a city does it distract from the inter-city rivalry or not. The obvious exception is Manure and Liverpool. Is there a similar undercurrent between Citeh and Everton? Not as great cos they haven't won a lot I know, but I wondered.

So the suggestion is when there are two clubs in a city, it is that rivalry that prevails rather than the rivalry between team 1 or team 2 from City A and the other city's team C.
 
It didn't help in the Pompey/Southampton rivalry when strike breaking workers from Southampton were bussed to Portsmouth to scab at Pompey workplaces. A bit like Forrest and Blades.
 
East Midlands derbies are pathetic. The fact that both Notts teams often play pre-season friendlies with one another shows how insignificant the rivalry is. Forest/Derby is bigger but I wouldn't put it on a par with ours, let alone the Manc derby.
 
WestHam v Millwall went back to a Dockers strike where West ham were the Black legs [ if the term can still be used ]They are both Horrible places to visit .But Millwall have the highest percentage of fans that want to attack other fans , to boost there vile image . Whoever makes reduced price matches against these teams need there heads looking at , as we and the pigs found out .
 
SK10Blade said:
It didn't help in the Pompey/Southampton rivalry when strike breaking workers from Southampton were bussed to Portsmouth to scab at Pompey workplaces. A bit like Forrest and Blades.
Click to expand...

I think it was the other way round, West Ham dockers stayed out in 1926 and Millwall dockers kept working.
 
WalthamstowBlade said:
Well there was a general strike in 1926 so it has some basis in fact...
Click to expand...

Indeed. I think the somewhat more prosaic explanation is that it is just a common or garden territorial thing going on between supporters who are pretty similar in all other respects. Cf the Sheffield rivalry. Both the London docks and Sheffield were rock solid heavily unionised working class communites, who had nothing else to argue about.

Fun facts are that West Ham had the first Labour council anywhere in the country and Sheffield was the first large city to come under Labour control (in 1926 as it happens).
 
I get to see the Norwich/Ipswich rivalry first hand, and as much as they think it's intense, it's pretty tame although it did get quite tasty in Ipswich last season, though purely because the police pissed it right up.

Of course everyone hates Leeds, Norwich was practically a no go area when they came to town last time and a lot of businesses actually shut for the afternoon.

I found our rivalry with the pigs in my first ever derby appearance this season was pretty hostile and intimidating inside the ground, it was great fun
 
This whole Man U vs L**ds thing is pretty far fetched. Ask any Man U fan under the age of about 50 and theyll laugh at you.
 
WalthamstowBlade said:
This whole Man U vs L**ds thing is pretty far fetched. Ask any Man U fan under the age of about 50 and theyll laugh at you.
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The most one-sided rivalry in the game. Leeds fans hate Man U; Man U fans couldn't care less. I remember a survey coming out 15 years or so ago in Shoot magazine about each sides top 3 rivalries. Leeds' fans had picked Man U, Chelsea and Liverpool.
 
one of my best mates is from Liverpool and he once came with us to the SSD.. he was pretty astonished at the antagonism and outright hatred amongst the fans.. he reckoned he'd never seen it as bad at a liverpool derby.. i used to live in Portsmouth for a couple of years and can vouch for the fact that Pompey vs Soton is a nasty one.. a lot like ours actually
 



Cheshire Cat said:
Not sure which Manc derby you've been involved in, but it's all out war right across the city! The match itself, regardless of which ground, is a tough enough proposition - but the city centre and small town pubs are usually pretty tasty for the whole day. Less of a worry if you're a neutral, but get mistaken for blue or red in the wrong place on derby day and you'll get totalled. The tension before a derby is just like ours, grown men can't sleep or eat. The big difference being how much the media focus on the game intensifies it further - witness the City fan caught crying after losing a mid-season game against Swansea, I guarantee he was thinking about all the shit he'd given the reds he knows and how much he was going to get back. It's our derby in parallel - although even United fans don't rival Wednesday in their arrogance, at least they've done something in the 30 years they taunt City about.

Merseyside is just banter for the most part - but spend time with Evertonians and you realise that the 'friendly derby' is only a veneer, and given the right circumstances all kinds of hatred and vitriol comes spilling out.

Midlands derbies seemed really tame when I lived down there - although they get a bit heated once they get there. Working with a load of Blues and Villa fans I once forgot it was the derby until the fighting was on the local news that night - virtually no antagonism in the run-up in the office. Wolves and West Brom used to get a bit mardy with each other - but with that accent it was difficult to tell from their normal day-to-day demeanor. Any games between the four teams other than those two didn't seem to register.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure where this Manchester is that you see on derby day, I never notice much at all! Certainly nothing like the feeling I get being in Sheffield for the derby. I think the media makes it harder to put down the other team in Manchester, so people don't get quite as upset about losing the games. For me personally with Wednesday, I never see them play and could hardly name a player of theirs and think they're an awful side anyway. Can't really do that when the other team has David Silva or Wayne Rooney playing for them, losing to a side that cost millions to put together isn't as upsetting. That's always been my view of the Manchester derbies anyway from a first hand perspective. Would us or Wednesday ever let it go if we won 6-1 away?
 
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