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After to-days first half performance from the back 3 I'm delighted we've signed two centre backs. It was like watching Coventry away again as they got done for pace with the ball over the top. Agree about strong forward needed. More important to me is playing at tempo on the front foot with two 10's. The insipid 3-5-2 reared its head again first half.
Not writing them off but if we are really serious about promotion this coming season then they both shouldn't be anywhere near the first team.
Been a reight start , 2 strikers played who quote " shouldn't be anywhere near the first team "
Tell that to Phil foden. We don't need players to learn what it takes to play in the conference or league one or two but the championship and higher
Rarely does anyone have a fully fit squad to pick from
If you’re having to regularly throw in players under 22 years old into your first team there’s something wrong with your recruitment.
I reckon you’re spot on with that one there will always be a couple who break that mould but that seems to be the way of it
Are you comparing training with the very best players in the world, with the very best coach and coming into games where it’s already been well put to bed with zero expectation on him as playing with us?
I'm comparing to a number of young players who don't get loaned out when on the fringes
You’ve picked the most technically gifted player England has produced for 40 years. Who else have you got? The list of players who developed at a lower level before delivering once they had that experience is many times the amount of names you can provide who didn’t.
Loads of players don't get loaned out. Just because it works for some doesn't mean for all. As it stands we have one other fit striker so why it's even on some fans radars I don't know.
Because, from the evidence, neither Jebbison or Osalu look good enough for a championship promotion campaign. Bear in mind our youth players play in the shit version of academy football. They’re not playing against youth teams from Man City, Liverpool etc, it’s a low standard that doesn’t push them enough. So they need to go out on loan to improve. There may be the odd one who, like Brooks, can step up very quickly but the majority will benefit from going out on loan.
We have a fair list of examples ourselves - Quinn, Woodhouse, Morris, Jagielka, Montgomery, Tonge, Maguire
Great examples which is in no way representative to where we currently are, so it’s comparing apples and oranges. It’s also 20-25 years ago. Development and standard of the lower leagues has improved significantly since then just as the quality at the top of the Championship has. The first 3 all came in during rebuilds when there’s no expectation on promotion and no money to spend. They were also at a level to to start and contribute to the first team due to the level we were add, which are kids aren’t.
Quinn was on loan at Rotherham and MKDs.
See your point but really we are saying something like half of our academy graduates that have come into the first team and stayed around it didn’t have loans. And yes we may have finished lower in league previously but to, say, Jagileka and Tonge making a breakthrough but splitting hairs in terms of levels as argument is that Osula and Jebbison are “miles away” not merely lower championship players. Also, seems a somewhat selective argument to say all those players that made it straight to first team where somehow outliers (and thus not relevant in the debate) - seems a good way of denying evidence that contradicts a certain point. But can add in Terry Kennedy, Ben Whiteman, Louis Reed - maybe not household names but held their own in first team without aid of previous loans. Just to confirm, not saying having a loan an bad thing as there are lots of players who have done this and then come through but that it isn’t the prerequisite for success that it is being made to be. Also, think argument that examples aren’t recent a bit unfair as youth team not being sending much to first team over the past decade - Brooks apart.
Wayne not Stephen
Wow, completely forgot about him. But then it was 25 years ago. FFS, you’ve made me feel old now.
It was Stephen
He said Quinn didn’t go on loan, I thought he meant Stephen but he meant Wayne, who didn’t go on loan (until Newcastle much later).
The discussion is if these two players who aren’t ready for are current level are better going on loan for experience or stay within our group.
I think one issue maybe we have them both, if that makes sense. I think you can easily make the argument that one of them would get enough game to warrant remaining but they could actually be in each other’s way. Bigger decision will be sending one out - and then which one. I think we have to be careful we don’t see them as a single entity as can sometimes happen when two players (especially relatively similar ones as they are) emerge together.
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