Today's Jubilee Looky-Likey

[pommpey]

Interesting to see the forelock tuggers on the forum..... er forelock tugging. Royal Family = the apex of the same old power and privilege in this country and still using "God" to justify this nonsense.

Nice one, James O'Brien.

Are we really 'forelock tugging'? Or are we simply subscribing to a national institution which is part of our great collective identity, itself based on enviable, proven historic context?

Face it, kings, queens. tzars, emperors, empresses and presidents all over the world have come and gone, but the British Monarchy remains an benchmark of constitutional regal and political balance. They are not beyond public scrutiny and criticism, yet when you speak with foreigners, within half an hour the subject of their existence will invariably emerge. Talk to the yanks about their presidents. The Italians, the French. Ask African nations about their tribalism and ruling parties. The various ever-changing administrations in South America. They are generally less likely to tug their forelocks about them.

Holding the Firm up as our totemic marker isn't forelock tugging. It's saying 'this is who we are, and who we always have been'. It's in our buildings, our public servants and our collective credo. And it costs each of us less than a litre of diesel per year to keep it.

pommpey

 

[Alan Birchenall's hair]

I'd counter that they, as part of a wider, taller historic framework which includes the meaner and badder parts of human history, the achievements, the western growth and yes, the more savoury aspects of our development, the Firm is a massive tourist draw. What did you learn at school in history? And how much of that features in other countries syllabuses?

Visit Rome, why don't you, and tell me everything there isn't a tourist pull. From the Coliseum to the Vatican and beyond, it's all woven into ourselves in one way or another.

A recent study quoted the other day on a BBC interview cited asset costs of the Firm and the generated income and employment of climbing on for £16 billion.

Put it this way. Extract the monarchy from the capital alone and what exactly is there to visit in London apart from theatreland and museums?

pommpey

Yeah, I've visited Rome and Paris, and much of the tourist stuff of it is to do with historical monarchy and empire. But that's what it is. historical. Don't really know what the current royals are adding to The Tower of London for example, so I think it's only Buck Pal that can claim any sort of current royal claim. Don't reckon many tourists wish to gaze upon St James' Palace etc. either.
Anyhow, as I said originally, as long as most people seem to want it, that's fine by me. Personally I was more interested in the 1st Test at Lords last weekend than the balcony scenes, but heyho that's life......

 

[Bashamed]

Holding the Firm up as our totemic marker isn't forelock tugging. It's saying 'this is who we are, and who we always have been'. It's in our buildings, our public servants and our collective credo. And it costs each of us less than a litre of diesel per year to keep it.

I mean come on. How does the queen represent who I am? She could never in a million years have any conception of what a normal person's life is like. The country is on it's fucking knees, shit loads are choosing between heating and eating, and we throw an enormous party costing a billion pounds to celebrate that she's stayed alive for 70 years on the thrown after being waited on hand and foot her entire life.

One of "the Firm" is almost certainly an actual paedophile. Public money has undoubtedly been used directly or indirectly to get him off. Is that also who we are and who we've always been? Is that fine because they bring in tourists? It's revolting that they are literally classed as better than other humans just because they're born into that family.

 

[snb69]

I like to think I'm a pragmatic republican

1. It's not going to change in my lifetime - there isn't the support for it
2. It would be around #1087 on the list of things I'd fix if I was running the country

I just think that no-one should have power or influence (even nominal) because of who their ancestors are. It's not about cost. It's not about history (because that doesn't go away - the most visited palace is Versaille).

I also quite like the idea of being able to remove the people we gve power to via democratic means.

And I'll freely admit the practicalities are hard. But that's not a reason to do it. It's just a reason to do other things before

 

[Bladeloyal]

Describing it as a certain privilege has to be the understatement of the century. She is officially better than everyone she meets due to her title.

Many of us have "done our bit" and are left on the brink of poverty. Her duties are not the same as a normal job, and contribute little to society. Would anyone seriously argue that our money wouldn't be better spent on a load more doctors, nurses or teachers?

I'm sure you could emigrate, if living in a monarchy offends you so much . The queen works till she's 96 plus and still doesn't command your respect . unbelievable

 

[Cheesebored]

I'm sure you could emigrate, if living in a monarchy offends you so much . The queen works till she's 96 plus and still doesn't command your respect . unbelievable

If you think it's about commanding respect you clearly don't understand the conversation going on here.

 

[Bladeloyal]

Cost , privilege, respect, jealously of the position , hate of a institution that helps keep us stable ,your right I don't understand the conversation .GSTQ

 

[Bladesthorpe]

I'm sure you could emigrate, if living in a monarchy offends you so much . The queen works till she's 96 plus and still doesn't command your respect . unbelievable

Works ? Like hoovering, washing pots and bedding, ironing, shopping, helping in the garden and picking kids up from school you mean. ?

 

[Le Cynique]

I'd say the Republic of Ireland get on perfectly well with an elected head of state, and they don't seem to be suffering too much from a lack of tourism.

 

[Cheesebored]

Cost , privilege, respect, jealously of the position , hate of a institution that helps keep us stable ,your right I don't understand the conversation .GSTQ

You don't understand how to use the reply button either

 

[Bladeloyal]

You don't understand how to use the reply button either

There is that ok petal

 

[Cheesebored]

There is that ok petal

Is that it, the power of your debating skills?

 

[vegleeds]

Nice one, James O'Brien.

Are we really 'forelock tugging'? Or are we simply subscribing to a national institution which is part of our great collective identity, itself based on enviable, proven historic context?

Face it, kings, queens. tzars, emperors, empresses and presidents all over the world have come and gone, but the British Monarchy remains an benchmark of constitutional regal and political balance. They are not beyond public scrutiny and criticism, yet when you speak with foreigners, within half an hour the subject of their existence will invariably emerge. Talk to the yanks about their presidents. The Italians, the French. Ask African nations about their tribalism and ruling parties. The various ever-changing administrations in South America. They are generally less likely to tug their forelocks about them.

Holding the Firm up as our totemic marker isn't forelock tugging. It's saying 'this is who we are, and who we always have been'. It's in our buildings, our public servants and our collective credo. And it costs each of us less than a litre of diesel per year to keep it.

pommpey

No idea who James O'Brien is/was.

Very telling that in your list of kings, queens, tzars etc there's no mention of ordinary people, lower class oiks like you and me who, because we forlock tug year after year, century after century, 'don't really count'. "This is who we are, and who we always have been". What absolute tosh. For quite a few hundred years a significant part of this country's "credo" was the normalisation of slavery and the promotion of imperialism. (Not these got much of a mention in the history lessons at King Teds in the early 1960s.) Never mind pommpey. There's still plenty of mugs around just waiting for Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson to declare the outbreak of the modern equivalent of the War of Jenkin's Ear and they'll be there wrapping themselves in the union flag and blubbering away while swearing allegiance to Queen ("Gawd bless 'er!!") and country. I'll take 'bugger Bognor" to "How goes the Empire?" any time...

 

[Cheesebored]

No idea who James O'Brien is/was.

Very telling that in your list of kings, queens, tzars etc there's no mention of ordinary people, lower class oiks like you and me who, because we forlock tug year after year, century after century, 'don't really count'. "This is who we are, and who we always have been". What absolute tosh. For quite a few hundred years a significant part of this country's "credo" was the normalisation of slavery and the promotion of imperialism. (Not these got much of a mention in the history lessons at King Teds in the early 1960s.) Never mind pommpey. There's still plenty of mugs around just waiting for Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson to declare the outbreak of the modern equivalent of the War of Jenkin's Ear and they'll be there wrapping themselves in the union flag and blubbering away while swearing allegiance to Queen ("Gawd bless 'er!!") and country. I'll take 'bugger Bognor" to "How goes the Empire?" any time...

Pipe down in the cheap seats. Stop questioning the rightful hierarchy and know your place.

 

[vegleeds]

Pipe down in the cheap seats. Stop questioning the rightful hierarchy and know your place.

"You've all got to work it out for yourselves!" Life of Brian.

 

[3-GBlade]

Verse 3 of All Things Bright and Beautiful:

"The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
God made them, high and lowly,
And ordered their estate."

Interesting to see the forelock tuggers on the forum..... er forelock tugging. Royal Family = the apex of the same old power and privilege in this country and still using "God" to justify this nonsense.

Oh dear.
I think you need to work out what the gate referred to is....

It may help you stop being foolish again.

 

[Middle Aged Blade]

England stick-ball player, Matty Potts

Sheffield United U21 reserves 'B' defender, Kacper Lopata

I don’t see it myself

 

[vegleeds]

Oh dear.
I think you need to work out what the gate referred to is....

It may help you stop being foolish again.

I sit at your feet O Wise One, trembling in anticipation of being enlightened.

 

[pommpey]

No idea who James O'Brien is/was.

Very telling that in your list of kings, queens, tzars etc there's no mention of ordinary people, lower class oiks like you and me who, because we forlock tug year after year, century after century, 'don't really count'. "This is who we are, and who we always have been". What absolute tosh. For quite a few hundred years a significant part of this country's "credo" was the normalisation of slavery and the promotion of imperialism. (Not these got much of a mention in the history lessons at King Teds in the early 1960s.) Never mind pommpey. There's still plenty of mugs around just waiting for Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson to declare the outbreak of the modern equivalent of the War of Jenkin's Ear and they'll be there wrapping themselves in the union flag and blubbering away while swearing allegiance to Queen ("Gawd bless 'er!!") and country. I'll take 'bugger Bognor" to "How goes the Empire?" any time...

If you see yourself as simply an 'oik' then maybe it's your classist inverted snobbery which needs attention. See also your poor estimation of self worth. I don't quite see myself as in that bracket. I have contributed to the upkeep and security of this nation and it's identity as a free, westernised constitutional monarchy with it's own elected government, judiciary, law-making process and industrial economic capability. If you wish to beat yourself bland over slavery please feel free. The wrongness of seven generations ago has little of which I can do or effect, save to acknowledge a few things:

1. Slavery was active, and considerably more vicious in the millennia prior to our comparatively brief involvement, particularly in middle eastern countries who rampaged through African nations capturing and butchering indigenous tribes for their own spoils, and in far greater numbers. I have yet to hear commentators like you shouting this from the rooftops, let alone current nations acknowledging it
2. Since it was us who began the dismantling of the slave trade, we can hardly be held responsible for other countries being active enslaving and trading slaves even today. In particular middle eastern countries who again, use other nations to commit millions into poverty and servitude whilst becoming fabulously wealthy on their labour

So, um, fuck off with your guilt tripping, huh.

And give me a break aligning that lying, fat oaf in number ten with the existence of the monarchy. Truth beknown, I'd wager his continued slipperiness is something of great discomfort to The Firm. He's a cunt to them as much as he is to me and you

pommpey

 

[pommpey]

Pipe down in the cheap seats. Stop questioning the rightful hierarchy and know your place.

Aw. Poor you.

pommpey

 

[Cheesebored]

Aw. Poor you.

pommpey

No. Poorer us.

 

[pommpey]

No. Poorer us.

Are you poor?

Do you actually know what poverty consists of and what conditions quantify that title?

I'd wager not.

pommpey

 

[Cheesebored]

Are you poor?

Compared to the Royal family yes. You're not a betting man either if I recall correctly.

 

[vegleeds]

If you see yourself as simply an 'oik' then maybe it's your classist inverted snobbery which needs attention. See also your poor estimation of self worth. I don't quite see myself as in that bracket. [etc]

[oik. / (ɔɪk) / noun. British derogatory, slang a person regarded as inferior because ignorant, ill-educated, or lower-class. Slang.]

Very telling that you've seized on the word 'oik' and ignored the rest of the sentence. Would substituting the phrase 'hoi polloi' for 'oik' be less distractive for you? Do you seriously think that the people you mentioned in your list ie kings, queens. tzars, emperors, empresses and presidents, would see you and I as being 'their equals'? Or do you think as I do that the imperative for them to maintain the status quo makes that virtually impossible? (Just because I may not be seen by others as 'equal' doesn't mean I agree with that estimation so spare me the "inverted snobbery" and "poor estimation of self-worth" crap.)

As for your comments on slavery which boil down to i) other people did it first ii) other people did it worse iii) other people are still doing it ----I would have expected better from you pommpey. I'm not going to 'beat myself bland' over it any more than I will over this country's contribution to imperialism. But neither can I ignore the fact that slavery and imperialism helped create inequalities in wealth/power which linger today.

You don't like de Pfeffel and neither do I. You might be right about what The Firm think of him but that's just a guess about what one part of power and privilege thinks about another part of power and privilege so maybe best not use it to try bolster an argument.

 

[pommpey]

Compared to the Royal family yes. You're not a betting man either if I recall correctly.

This is true. But a safe bet would be that the label 'poor' you give yourself is somewhat misappropriated. A bit like Brexiteers when you ask them 'what specific EU-originated 'laws' affect them directly to want to leave the economic bloc' and they suddenly fall silent, if I were to ask you what gross personal financial burden the Royal Family bestows them with they have a bit of a moment trying to quantify it. Just like Brexit can just be rendered down to the basics of brown people in boats, the argument against the Royal Family stems from an irrational envy of wealth, privilege and opulence, qualities most people have no fucking idea what to do with in a dignified, well-advised manner when appearing as the Head of State of the UK. And then they have no answer when it is put to them that our Head of State never has the option to retire, has never delivered anything but 'duty' and is a few years away from her hundredth birthday, having seen fourteen prime ministers, each one as temporary and diverse as the last. Yet she remains constant.

pommpey

 

[pommpey]

Very telling that you've seized on the word 'oik' and ignored the rest of the sentence. Would substituting the phrase 'hoi polloi' for 'oik' be less distractive for you? Do you seriously think that the people you mentioned in your list ie kings, queens. tzars, emperors, empresses and presidents, would see you and I as being 'their equals'? Or do you think as I do that the imperative for them to maintain the status quo makes that virtually impossible? (Just because I may not be seen by others as 'equal' doesn't mean I agree with that estimation so spare me the "inverted snobbery" and "poor estimation of self-worth" crap.)

Well, it's your word, to describe yourself and contextualise some Dickensian landscape which frankly doesn't exist these days in the UK. And how many kings, queens, emperors have you spoken to? Does your boss regard you as 'equal'? What about your councillor? Lord Mayor? Where do you want to start and stop with this tired, socialist dogma? If you feel yourself to be unequal, then maybe you are. Good luck with your complex psychosis.

As for your comments on slavery which boil down to i) other people did it first ii) other people did it worse iii) other people are still doing it ----I would have expected better from you pommpey. I'm not going to 'beat myself bland' over it any more than I will over this country's contribution to imperialism. But neither can I ignore the fact that slavery and imperialism helped create inequalities in wealth/power which linger today.

But you have no answer to the fact that other people did it first, worse and are still doing it. Did they expand their worth through it? Are they still? Damned right they did and are. And whilst we are on the subject, attitudes of middle eastern countries toward other religions, LGBTQ, women, other nationalities, ethnicities and backgrounds outshine our own malfeasance by several multiples. Their ingrained theocratic barbarism and brutality toward anyone 'not them' simply because of the fact is evident if you care to look. To mantra the same tired trope about our admitted 170-odd years of wrongness and completely and conveniently ignore middle eastern and Chinese enslavement which brackets that by a thousand years is crass and typical. And to extrapolate that further into the current Royal Family whose tenuous links to the Hanoverians and Restoration era monarchs is pretty scant is also stretching credibility. The slave trade ended three years into our own Queen's great-great-grandmother's reign.

pommpey

 

[VwBlade]

But is it true she's a lizard?

 

[Jon Bon II]

I don’t see it myself

That's ok. I respect that. Thank you for looking.

 

[Cheesebored]

This is true. But a safe bet would be that the label 'poor' you give yourself is somewhat misappropriated.

I've never called myself poor, it was a reply to one of your rants. Why do you keep blurring the lines with politics, Brexit in particular? You need to accept people are allowed an opinion that differs to yours. Several posters have given you ample reasons why the Royal family are an outdated institution but you just carry on like the fast track bully you are oblivious to how it makes you look. I'm off to bed now as I'm up early in the morning, as I am the rest of the week to pay the bills, mortgage, food, fuel, energy ya know, the things the Royals will never have to work for. We pay for theirs Pommpey, me and thee. Goodnight.

 

[vegleeds]

If you feel yourself to be unequal, then maybe you are. Good luck with your complex psychosis.
pommpey

I feel neither unequal nor having a need to engage in forelock tugging to anybody. As for coming out with a cod mental health diagnosis to make an ad hominem attack, I thought you were better than that pommpey. I'm leaving the fray to stop you embarrassing yourself further.