Today was a good reminder

[Nelson1889]

It's not really though, is it?

Sheffield United finishing 9th in 2019-20 with a squad full of League One and Championship players proved that.

That was very much an exception to the rule, every club that goes up has to have a great season to even survive. Brentford are doing that this year but you only have to look at Norwich and Watford who pretty much ran away with the championship last season to see what everyone is up against.

There are some average teams in the PL and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that we could establish ourselves there but we'd need at least 4 or 5 years there before we could probably not have to look over our shoulder every season and we've not managed that since the PL began.

 

[Roygbiv]

Disagree that yesterday was anything other than pointing out the obvious that we can't be without 5 first teamers to take on a top 10 Premier League side. Gordon, Robinson, Osborn, Hourihane and possibly Didz and Sharp won't even be here next season.


Do agree that the gulf is huge though and will get bigger. The smaller clubs such as Brighton and Palace are so far in front of us you wonder how we can consistently compete without new owners.

 

[wadblade]

You obviously mean Wilder fucked it up by wasting the vast majority of the £100 + million in transfer fees he spent then fucking off through the back door when it went tits up ?

So are the blades better or worse off for having CW as manager?

 

[corner_flag]

Yes but I still want to go to the lane (and away) and see us win every game...How do you square that circle?

Lose enough games away to make sure we don't get promoted and stay in a division where we can win games with the quality squad we are prepared to pay for

 

[SwissBlade]

of why we surrendered our Premier League status with a whimper.
Plus, why we shouldn't be hoping for a quick return!
Failure to take chances, Mistakes clinically punished.
The gulf, ladies and gentlemen, is f*****g huuuuuge and will be for a long, long time.
Unless we find a chairperson who can buy us success, we'll just have to put up with brief periods of 'against-the-odds' surprise seasons. Sad, but true.

In fairness, that side won't start many games and the side that finished won't either. But yes, players like Robinson, Osborn and Freeman highlight yet again that whilst our first team might be able to a lay a glove on Prem sides on its day, as soon as we lose a few, we look so far off the pace.

Its not to suggest that we'd have beaten Wolves, the 3-0 perhaps flattered a little, but they were clearly better than us, though they didn't appear stretched for much of the game and they also didn't seem to be switched on at times. An early goal from Billy would've changed the game, but i think they'd have still beaten us.

The midfield is the big one for me. I think we need to stick with Hourihane and Norwood as they seem to have a more natural understanding. Berge looks to be a decent player again with the ball, but his off the ball work and strength for a big lad still needs a lot of work. The example of Bashams booking for the foul on Traore is a good one as Berge had the ball, got muscled off it and then Traore got away from him. Admittedly Traore is a very very good player in those situations, but Berge needs to be smarter, either have the strength to hold him off, release the ball or when you've lost it, get the fucker back.

Yesterday, generally i thought we were a much less physical side and we were a softer touch than what we're used to seeing

 

[bartman]

So are the blades better or worse off for having CW as manager?

What has that got to do with he point i was responding to ? However we are one division better off but skint as Wilder wasn't able to improve the starting eleven despite spending over £100 million . He still relied on Fleck, Egan, Baldock, Stevens, McGoldrick,Norwood,Lundstram,Sharp and Basham( the latter two werent even signed by Wilder) as the backbone of his team. He wasted an opportunity to build a team, blamed the players, then the Board and then fucked off. We had a great 4 years. After lockdown, he unfortunately lost the plot.

 

[wadblade]

What has that got to do with he point i was responding to ? However we are one division better off but skint as Wilder wasn't able to improve the starting eleven despite spending over £100 million . He still relied on Fleck, Egan, Baldock, Stevens, McGoldrick,Norwood,Lundstram,Sharp and Basham( the latter two werent even signed by Wilder) as the backbone of his team. He wasted an opportunity to build a team, blamed the players, then the Board and then fucked off. We had a great 4 years. After lockdown, he unfortunately lost the plot.

So would you prefer CW never happened?
I am just grateful for the memories
Would you prefer the blandness that is Porkboro

 

[bartman]

So would you prefer CW never happened?
I am just grateful for the memories
Would you prefer the blandness that is Porkboro

I would rather Wilder have took responsibility for what happened after lockdown ,how he had spent all the money , and then tried to get us promoted this season instead of blaming everyone except himself ( and using his friends to blame the club via social media) and walking out on the club.
By all means praise Wilder for the 1st four years but the last 18 months was an opportunity missed by Wilder to stabilise us in the top league yet some fans fail to acknowledge this.
The original quote i responded to puts my posts into context

 

[247Blade]

Lose enough games away to make sure we don't get promoted and stay in a division where we can win games with the quality squad we are prepared to pay for

Problem with that is when will we be able to pay? .... maybe price of bog roll needs to go up?

 

[bartman]

Problem with that is when will we be able to pay? .... maybe price of bog roll needs to go up?

Except the Prince doesnt own a bog roll company, if i recall correctly

 

[247Blade]

Thought he was the bog roll Prince!

 

[247Blade]

Thought he was the bog roll Prince!

It's a fact he ain't got a bank roll

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

So are the blades better or worse off for having CW as manager?

A good question, and probably one which won't be able to be properly answered until the dust of his reign has fully settled in another 2 or 3 seasons.

What I would say, is that I think we'd be better off as a club if we'd been relegated the first season back in the PL.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

of why we surrendered our Premier League status with a whimper.
Plus, why we shouldn't be hoping for a quick return!
Failure to take chances, Mistakes clinically punished.
The gulf, ladies and gentlemen, is f*****g huuuuuge and will be for a long, long time.
Unless we find a chairperson who can buy us success, we'll just have to put up with brief periods of 'against-the-odds' surprise seasons. Sad, but true.

I'd happily take a quick return & do a Norwich. Spend nothing, clear the debts, maybe invest a bit in upgrading our training ground & academy (as we were promised) & come back down in a much healthier state. We might even be a little bit more attractive to investors then too.
If we don't bounce back this season then we certainly won't next (stronger league). After which I only see us on one trajectory given the cycle of our squad, the lack of parachute monies etc.

 

[N20 Blade]

I would rather Wilder have took responsibility for what happened after lockdown ,how he had spent all the money , and then tried to get us promoted this season instead of blaming everyone except himself ( and using his friends to blame the club via social media) and walking out on the club.
By all means praise Wilder for the 1st four years but the last 18 months was an opportunity missed by Wilder to stabilise us in the top league yet some fans fail to acknowledge this.
The original quote i responded to puts my posts into context

The true legacy, as it stands, is the financial mess that we're in, so that we haven't been able to strengthen the squad for Slav's desired approach or now. We are left with poor players on distorted wages and a lot of money wasted signing them. We are skint.

This will be an economic albatross around our necks for years, unless we fluke a promotion, which is unlikely for the reasons stated - catch 22. If we can survive in the championship for 4-5 seasons we might be ok but Wilder's mistakes jeopardized the long term stability of the club.

I saw a post earlier that two years ago we were fifth in the PL. What a calamity that could only be made worse if Wilder succeeds at Boro to rub salt in still open wounds. Yes I'll never forget the first four years. Great. But I equally can't forgive what followed because we as the fans will suffer the repercussions of his errors, for far longer than four years.

For the first time since I started going in the late 80's, I'm feeling disconnected with the club. I've enjoyed not going to games over the last few weeks. The kids are desperate for games but I feel so bitter now towards Wilder and the state he left us in. Stupidly I thought he was the man for the long haul over thick and thin. How wrong I was.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

Agreed - it makes complete sense to compare a makeshift Covid depleted side playing for the first time in a month to a pretty much full strength and in form wolves team!

Surely all conclusions drawn from this assessment will be valid.

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

No point getting to PL under the present ownership - they got there + fucked it up so badly that we are now stony broke with a poor squad + no prospects in January

I’m absolutely lost on how it was the ownerships fault when we were in the premiership?

I absolutely love Wilder for what he did for this football club, but he was given a huge amount of money & blew it. The owners can’t spend what they’ve not got.

Watch the Macclesfield documentary with Robbie Savage and witness how much running a non-league football team costs never mind a team with players on 10-20k p/w

 

[Keen Blade]

I’m absolutely lost on how it was the ownerships fault when we were in the premiership?

I absolutely love Wilder for what he did for this football club, but he was given a huge amount of money & blew it. The owners can’t spend what they’ve not got.

Watch the Macclesfield documentary with Robbie Savage and witness how much running a non-league football team costs never mind a team with players on 10-20k p/w

They gave Wilder so much rope that he eventually hung himself.
For example , where was the supervisory voice of reason when he wanted to sign Brewster's Millions when a blind idiot could see that JoC needed replacing and that was a much higher priority.
I remember the Prince once describing Wilder as "the Messiah" and that's how he was viewed.
There was no management control exerted upon him and , being a strong personality , he simply demanded + received total autonomy , which gave him licence to spend every last cent , and after 2019 , he spent very badly.
The ultimate responsibility lies with the owners , not for failing to back him , but for lack of vision + caving-in to stupid signings like Brewster's Millions.

 

[steve26272]

No point getting to PL under the present ownership - they got there + fucked it up so badly that we are now stony broke with a poor squad + no prospects in January

Bloody hell, seriously?!

Were you saying that as our net spend was more than that of Mourinho at Spurs, and just behind Arsenal and Man U.?

and that following the £20m capture of Berge, who was been monitored by Fiorentina and Liverpool

Fact is were skint now, because CW mismanaged the biggest budget in SUFC history, and then when it became obvious he'd fucked up, promptly threw his toys out of the pram, tried to resign twice, then finally sloped out the back door, taking what was left in the cash tin

To blame the board is crazy, the only accusation they should accept is allowing CW to dictate as much as he did

They wanted a DoF -

Would the DoF have asked CW why he wants to buy a £22m EPL unproven striker whos main attribute is pace, when we play overlapping wingbacks and cross in?
Would a DoF have pointed out that Mousset has never completed 90 mins for Bournemouth, and has a record of 3 goals in 58 appearances (£10m)
Or that Oli Burke has played for 6 clubs in 6 years across 4 countries but never managed more than 4 goals per season for any of them (£8m)

 

[Revolution]

A good question, and probably one which won't be able to be properly answered until the dust of his reign has fully settled in another 2 or 3 seasons.

What I would say, is that I think we'd be better off as a club if we'd been relegated the first season back in the PL.

Maybe so, but that season was the only one in my 44 years of supporting us that we were in the top flight and were never in serious relegation trouble. Even in 1991-2 we were in the bottom 6 in March. I wouldn’t swap that season.

 

[Silent Blade]

Maybe so, but that season was the only one in my 44 years of supporting us that we were in the top flight and were never in serious relegation trouble. Even in 1991-2 we were in the bottom 6 in March. I wouldn’t swap that season.

For me, add in 1971-72, 1973-74 and 1974-75

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Maybe so, but that season was the only one in my 44 years of supporting us that we were in the top flight and were never in serious relegation trouble. Even in 1991-2 we were in the bottom 6 in March. I wouldn’t swap that season.

I don't say it lightly, it's something I've thought about a lot and I'm not trying to be provocative.

If we had gone down, we wouldn't have spent all the £'s that we did in the 2nd season, we would've spread what we had around better, we wouldn't have signed Rammers, Brewster, or Berge and I suspect that CWAK would've stayed and we would be in a better financial shape than we are. We might have seen better performances from McB, continuing his championship level form with us. We also wouldn't have our 2nd season performance casting a shadow over us. I think we'd have either bounced back the season after or at least been there or there abouts and would be right amongst it this season.

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

They gave Wilder so much rope that he eventually hung himself.
For example , where was the supervisory voice of reason when he wanted to sign Brewster's Millions when a blind idiot could see that JoC needed replacing and that was a much higher priority.
I remember the Prince once describing Wilder as "the Messiah" and that's how he was viewed.
There was no management control exerted upon him and , being a strong personality , he simply demanded + received total autonomy , which gave him licence to spend every last cent , and after 2019 , he spent very badly.
The ultimate responsibility lies with the owners , not for failing to back him , but for lack of vision + caving-in to stupid signings like Brewster's Millions.

Fair enough, I think the problem was Wilder had full control of the club & when he didn’t get his own way he threatened openly to the press to quit or you had his friends on Twitter moaning about the prince, ultimately he had the ownership around his little finger which like you said is poor management from them.

But on the other side Wilder was the football man and they trusted his judgement

 

[ThatJa]

No point getting to PL under the present ownership - they got there + fucked it up so badly that we are now stony broke with a poor squad + no prospects in January

The owners fucked it up? Not our then manager no?

 

[ATL Recs]

Wolves are a top side. They’ve got clubs playing in Europe wanting their players. They had £60m worth of talent at the top of the pitch. We had Robinson and Kyron Gordon defending it.

Yesterday I expected nothing and it means absolutely nothing for the bigger picture.

We could of fit have put 60 million plus of at the top of the pitch
Another example of how wisely you spend your money would we have got more value and quality by going abroad ( mouse doesn’t count as he was already here) I believe we would

 

[CrookesBlade]

I don't see yesterday as a barometer for how we'd do in the PL, Robinson would never be played in the PL, he's out of contract this summer and I think he'll be released, and if we go up I could see Didzy being only a fringe player or even released this summer - as good as he is - his finishing is not PL standard. Sadly we'd need about 8 new signings as starters if we went up! But if we go up we take it. Get some loans in and a few permanent players and develop the academy.

Agree with this. Its pointless worrying how far off the standard of the Premier League we are unless we got there. There is nobody in our division anywhere near the quality that Wolves have.

Any team that goes up and stays up these days is doing it very much against the odds.

 

[blade too long]

There's no denying we spent 105m on players we could have got better than those we bought by getting in free transfers with potential.

Don't remember buying Deane and Agana for 20 million each

Wilder did great things on a budget
Then blew it all on wild gambles.

He should have been told to make do and mend which was his forte

Middlesboro aren't going to give him 100m and will be the better off for it

The board only did what a lot in here wanted . Splashed what we had
Now those same fans who insisted we spend money blame them for doing what they wanted

Poor sods can't win can they

 

[Yewsman]

Apart from the terrible recruitment of players once we got into the PL, where we overpaid on players who did not make the step up to the PL and did not recruit in the right positions, the other failure was to invest in the infrastructure of the club. We have poor training facilities, a Cat 2 Academy and so far as I am aware a poor player recruitment team/department with no ability to recruit foreign players. Had we spent the £23 million of Brewsters fee on infrastructure we would be in a much better position now. Yes we would probably still have been relegated but we would be in much more of a position to do a Norwich, Watford and apparently Bournemouth to get straight back up to the PL and possibly survive there.

 

[Bell4]

So are the blades better or worse off for having CW as manager?

Better off

We were div1 underachievers with no soul when he rocked up

He gave us the best rude imaginable and I mean imaginable for 4 years

But he then blew it in an unimaginable way also and messed up the opportunity to ensure we stabilised ourselves in the worlds top league

But we know all this

Hecky has to sort out the imbalance of the squad and move on the expensive flops to do this

Even then I feel we will at best just stand still for a couple of seasons

 

[blade too long]

there are now 20 clubs bottom 10 prem and top 10 championship that will be staying in that zone for years to come
we are one of those as we will be top 10 come May
these clubs will alternate between the 2 divisions for the foreseeable future, will be the odd Brentford but be the exception rather than the rule

we arent the richest club but prudence on good gates keeps us as viable contenders for visits to the prem

all I want is to have 3 more prem seasons in the next 10 to match then overtake those pigs seasons years in the top flight
I dont see the owls managing getting in the prem for the foreseeable future, well not till we've invented USS Enterprises star drive

either club will only change if some random philanthropic billionaire takes over and thats less likely than me winning the euro lottery