Was Wilder right about our players?

[FMBlade1]

Roy Keane commented that the players at Manchester United threw Mourinho under the bus and that they'll do the same thing to OGS:

https://www.sportbible.com/football...ars-throwing-solskjaer-under-the-bus-20211025

He is essentially suggesting that there is a toxic culture there, and I looking back I wonder (though it's not good to speculate) if there's something similar going on here:



I know I've banged on about this press conference. Wilder was wrong in going about this publicly like that, it was unprofessional imho. Others may not agree with that, but that's not my point here.

Perhaps Wilder was right that our players have a poor attitude/culture?

 

[Roygbiv]

If they were League One players then he shouldn't have given them new contracts. I don't think this interview was anything other than him being over emotional after a defeat though. We'd beat Chelsea 3-0 a few days before in one of our best ever displays under him.

 

[blackydog]

If they were League One players then he shouldn't have given them new contracts. I don't think this interview was anything other than him being over emotional after a defeat though. We'd beat Chelsea 3-0 a few days before in one of our best ever displays under him.

How far away does that seem now? Difficult to comprehend.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Roy Keane commented that the players at Manchester United threw Mourinho under the bus and that they'll do the same thing to OGS:

https://www.sportbible.com/football...ars-throwing-solskjaer-under-the-bus-20211025

He is essentially suggesting that there is a toxic culture there, and I looking back I wonder (though it's not good to speculate) if there's something similar going on here:



I know I've banged on about this press conference. Wilder was wrong in going about this publicly like that, it was unprofessional imho. Others may not agree with that, but that's not my point here.

Perhaps Wilder was right that our players have a poor attitude/culture?

How many times have you watched this interview?!

 

[Joey1889]

If they were League One players then he shouldn't have given them new contracts. I don't think this interview was anything other than him being over emotional after a defeat though. We'd beat Chelsea 3-0 a few days before in one of our best ever displays under him.

Sounds like you every pod....
'I hope I'm not going over the top about one bad result'

 

[Badger Blade]

Interesting what he said 4 minutes in about not being the sort of manager who does damage limitations and needing to make tactical and personnel changes because we saw none of that last season, it was wash, rinse, repeat - "Sheffield United...nil"

There might be a poor culture but by that time, Chris Wilder was four seasons into the job so any poor culture at that point has evolved on his watch and any bad eggs needed binning off. All barring Sharp and Basham were Wilder's players, SJ happens to be the guy having to try and piece together a jigsaw that's got pieces missing.

 

[west_yorks_blade]

Thanks for reposting this. Great to see the passion, the anger and the naked pain flowing from every pore.

Searingly honest and from the heart but clearly articulated.

Right there is a leader and one who really cared about this great club.

And now look at us.

 

[Hagansbootlaces]

If he was right about them, who signed them, who allowed it to creep in, who extended their contracts, and who kept picking them week after week.

 

[FMBlade1]

If he was right about them, who signed them, who allowed it to creep in, who extended their contracts, and who kept picking them week after week.

The thing is there's an element of hypocrisy with Wilder criticising players for new contracts when he himself got several.

Did greed play a factor in our demise?

 

[Hagansbootlaces]

The thing is there's an element of hypocrisy with Wilder criticising players for new contracts when he himself got several.

Did greed play a factor in our demise?

It's difficult managing or coping with so many different personalities or characters, pretty obvious it wasn't just us supporters that were shocked in the drop of of form and attitude.

You would also assume that the manager that took the majority from L1 to the PL would get an awful lot of understanding or trust from the players, if for eg, he came in one morning and insisted they wear pink tutus and run up and down the Moor.

If they lost trust in CW there had to be a reason, Lundstrom and his lack of effort and still playing week in week out, can't have been he reason, form hasn't picked up since he left, same applies re CW there was no new manager bounce, likewise no fight or determination to stay in the PL when one of the guys that got you there is out with a serious injury (JOC). Hole in the roof at the training ground? Again been there since L1,

And again no new manager bounce under Slav, totally understand the effect of losing nearly every week can have, but these players didn't come here from clubs that won every week, The relegation has happened, they are on the 3rd manager since relegation was confirmed, a new guy that has attempted to build them up at every opportunity, and it's not worked, the one/two bright sparks MGW and Ndiaye seem to be throwback to the mavericks of the past, who have a totally different attitude and character, lots of self belief and confidence, how you can give that to others that appear to be carrying the weight of the world is beyond me, if I knew, I would be typing this from my own Caribbean island and lending Bill Gates some money

 

[itsinyerblood]

If they were League One players then he shouldn't have given them new contracts. I don't think this interview was anything other than him being over emotional after a defeat though. We'd beat Chelsea 3-0 a few days before in one of our best ever displays under him.

Roy, as much as I find your contributions way above average, I think the point has been missed. I think that what Wilder was saying was based on what he knows his side were capable of, and the Leicester game was clearly a shock to his system in that his expectations were far higher and the players gave far, far less than was expected in this game.

Whether people think that airing his views publicly was wrong, well I suppose it depends on whether you have the necessary fibre to accept what's said rather than shrink because 'harsh' comments have been said. The fact that it's said in public seems piffling unless you assume that 'no comment' serves a purpose. FFS the players are expected to be grownups, and as Wilder said, they're never slow coming forward when a wage increase is needed, or when they need some other type of understanding about their circumstances.

Yes, many of these players came from Div 1, but they've shown they had it within them to raise their games to a far higher level. Whatever went wrong, well it's done now, but although I think Wilder made mistakes in his final year and a bit, I can't see why it's wrong to comment on players when they underachieve.

 

[Scarebus]

One thing that stuck with me from this interview was his body language. It's a lot louder than what's coming out of his mouth.

 

[Kevincarterversion2.0]

The players at Leicester there were essentially Championship/L1 players who CW had helped massively overachieved. CW's mistake was not moving some of them on in the summer of 2020 (McG, Stevens etc). The board also have some blame for that too.

 

[coolasanidiot]

Thanks for reposting this. Great to see the passion, the anger and the naked pain flowing from every pore.

Searingly honest and from the heart but clearly articulated.

Right there is a leader and one who really cared about this great club.

And now look at us.

'this great club'

Really?

Because of natural location at birth about 50K have been landed with anything but a great club.

Never won owt.
Always sell the best players.
Try to get managers on the cheap.
Try to get players on the cheap.
Ground improvements as cheap as possible.
Ticket office rubbish.
Souvenir shop rubbish.

Chris Wilder was a cheap option but for 4 years he gave this 'cheap club' an amazing ride/ lift . Its a real shame he bought a pile of dung that means we are left bereft of quality.

90% of folk wanted Chris to stay because it didn't take a genius to realise this is how it was going to end without him, and although he did resign 3x and although he did buy these shit players. The 90% realised that with him this year it would have been better.

 

[Bearlie]

Why did he chuck them under the bus ?
He may as well have done a phil Brown and sat them in the centre circle like naughty school kids
Ok we may have underperformed.....
But the this type of tirade should be in the dressing room behind closed doors ...
Roll on New years day

 

[Davalon]

My take on this interview was that it was nothing more than an attempt to get a response out of the players for the last couple of games or so.

 

[Hagansbootlaces]

'this great club'

Really?

Because of natural location at birth about 50K have been landed with anything but a great club.

Never won owt.
Always sell the best players.
Try to get managers on the cheap.
Try to get players on the cheap.
Ground improvements as cheap as possible.
Ticket office rubbish.
Souvenir shop rubbish.

Chris Wilder was a cheap option but for 4 years he gave this 'cheap club' an amazing ride/ lift . Its a real shame he bought a pile of dung that means we are left bereft of quality.

90% of folk wanted Chris to stay because it didn't take a genius to realise this is how it was going to end without him, and although he did resign 3x and although he did buy these shit players. The 90% realised that with him this year it would have been better.

The players didn't perform last season, why? No one really knows, presumably even the players, because there has been no change since CW left, the obvious question is, where is the evidence this year would have been better if CW was still in charge, he couldn't stop the drop of in form or create a will to fight relegation

 

[coolasanidiot]

The players didn't perform last season, why? No one really knows, presumably even the players, because there has been no change since CW left, the obvious question is, where is the evidence this year would have been better if CW was still in charge, he couldn't stop the drop of in form or create a will to fight relegation

For all the reasons we have seen a 1000x

BDBL was the 12th man
Without the crowd the teams with good technical ability thrive without 30K screaming at abuse at them.

And yes my thoughts are with Chris it would have been better this year.

To be fair to The Prince- SJ was not a cheap fix, he was anything but, and I don't advocate change now- SJ needs a few players and 2 seasons, him and his staff are exceptional football folk, who should be given a chance, but c'mon he needs proper money to be backed in January.

No manager could make THIS team do a Norwich- the quality isn't there.

 

[Harrisblade]

The players at Leicester there were essentially Championship/L1 players who CW had helped massively overachieved. CW's mistake was not moving some of them on in the summer of 2020 (McG, Stevens etc). The board also have some blame for that too.

If Wilder didn't move on HIS players from HIS
squad, but the board decided to do it instead, what sort of response would therehave been???????

 

[Hagansbootlaces]

For all the reasons we have seen a 1000x

BDBL was the 12th man
Without the crowd the teams with good technical ability thrive without 30K screaming at abuse at them.

And yes my thoughts are with Chris it would have been better this year.

To be fair to The Prince- SJ was not a cheap fix, he was anything but, and I don't advocate change now- SJ needs a few players and 2 seasons, him and his staff are exceptional football folk, who should be given a chance, but c'mon he needs proper money to be backed in January.

No manager could make THIS team do a Norwich- the quality isn't there.

But the crowds have been back, doesn't seem to have made much of a difference to results, performances or even to individual performance to anyone in a red and white shirt, and shouting abuse doesn't seem to have effected Birmingham or Blackpool or any other team that's left with points

 

[Roygbiv]

Roy, as much as I find your contributions way above average, I think the point has been missed. I think that what Wilder was saying was based on what he knows his side were capable of, and the Leicester game was clearly a shock to his system in that his expectations were far higher and the players gave far, far less than was expected in this game.

Whether people think that airing his views publicly was wrong, well I suppose it depends on whether you have the necessary fibre to accept what's said rather than shrink because 'harsh' comments have been said. The fact that it's said in public seems piffling unless you assume that 'no comment' serves a purpose. FFS the players are expected to be grownups, and as Wilder said, they're never slow coming forward when a wage increase is needed, or when they need some other type of understanding about their circumstances.

Yes, many of these players came from Div 1, but they've shown they had it within them to raise their games to a far higher level. Whatever went wrong, well it's done now, but although I think Wilder made mistakes in his final year and a bit, I can't see why it's wrong to comment on players when they underachieve.

No I completely agree with you. I think it was an emotional interview as he was angry but it was also motivational too. The same approach worked countless times before and the only reason this interview gets brought up is because of what followed.

I don't in any way think our demise was down to this at all. There is nothing at all wrong with the interview.

 

[dc_blade]

Thanks for reposting this. Great to see the passion, the anger and the naked pain flowing from every pore.

Searingly honest and from the heart but clearly articulated.

Right there is a leader and one who really cared about this great club.

And now look at us.

For all of those admirable qualities, he managed one win from his next twenty games in charge.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

We could do with that level of interview again now.

I don't have the foggiest what Slav is on about, most of the time sadly.

 

[steve26272]

Right there is a leader and one who really cared about this great club.

And now look at us.

Agree on the emotion, I am not sure that’s something you can inject, it’s because he’s a Blade

However, for all the plus points he had in the first 3.5 years - he undid it all towards the end

Did he care when he tried to quit, right when the lads he convinced to either come to the club, or sign a new contract needed him to lead the most?

Did he care when he could see the results weren’t going well, but just perceived with the same stale players and tactics??

Did he care about the club when he was barbing at the owners of the club, despite been back more than any other manager in our history???

Did he care about the financial well being of the club when he fought to take home £4m despite getting us relegated????

And yes, now look at us
No confidence
Unbalanced squad
Average players on huge contracts
In the Championship

All courtesy of the man himself

 

[Hagansbootlaces]

No I completely agree with you. I think it was an emotional interview as he was angry but it was also motivational too. The same approach worked countless times before and the only reason this interview gets brought up is because of what followed.

I don't in any way think our demise was down to this at all. There is nothing at all wrong with the interview.

I think a big part of the problem is the old saying 'familiarity breeds contempt' the vast majority of pkayers knew CW & AK very well, you can't keep repeating the same tactic, dealing with people, you can't keep creating a burning rig moment, as in if you don't do X , Y will happen etc it soon becomes predictable.

Wilder got intense criticism from a few in the media for throwing Henderson under the bus after his mistake against Liverpool, unwarranted as it had the desired effect, and the player went from strength to strength, but you can't keep doing it, likewise stopping the coach on the way home and buying beer, it's the hardest thing in any field, trying to keep things fresh and people motivated, boils down to 2 options, either learn some new man management skills, or refresh the squad every couple of years, with a regular turnover of players

 

[Rodley]

Roy, as much as I find your contributions way above average, I think the point has been missed. I think that what Wilder was saying was based on what he knows his side were capable of, and the Leicester game was clearly a shock to his system in that his expectations were far higher and the players gave far, far less than was expected in this game.

Whether people think that airing his views publicly was wrong, well I suppose it depends on whether you have the necessary fibre to accept what's said rather than shrink because 'harsh' comments have been said. The fact that it's said in public seems piffling unless you assume that 'no comment' serves a purpose. FFS the players are expected to be grownups, and as Wilder said, they're never slow coming forward when a wage increase is needed, or when they need some other type of understanding about their circumstances.

Yes, many of these players came from Div 1, but they've shown they had it within them to raise their games to a far higher level. Whatever went wrong, well it's done now, but although I think Wilder made mistakes in his final year and a bit, I can't see why it's wrong to comment on players when they underachieve.

My read of that interview is basically the first sign that this squad was running on fumes and an outstanding man manager had been back to the well too many times.

We punched well above our weight for 3 seasons under Wilder of Nazareth. The natural regression to the mean is now occurring.

 

[Red Hot Currie]

I tend to agree.... our demise wasn't down to this interview in isolation.... but I remember vividly watching it at the time (having watched that truly woeful performance (at the time uncharacteristic and unexpected)) and just thinking/feeling that something was really wrong...

I hoped it would provoke a response but in the event we just never looked up. It turned out to be downhill all the way. As an earlier poster said.... it's barely believable how badly things have gone so wrong. I find it baffling. And, of course, utterly fucking depressing (and that's after 50yrs of hurt!!!).

Bloody football.....!!!

 

[Rodley]

In addendum, the one positive about the rolling, never ending analysis of how Wilder’s time came to an end is that it improves the odds of someone misspelling his name as “Widler” - something we’ll all agree is pretty damn funny and perhaps could unite the fanbase.

 

[itsinyerblood]

My read of that interview is basically the first sign that this squad was running on fumes and an outstanding man manager had basically been back to the well too many times.

We punched well above our weight for 3 seasons under Wilder of Nazareth. The natural regression to the mean is now occurring.

You could well be right mate. So much of what appears on this site is speculation, often posted to suggest that a poster knows a bit more than other posters.

Your description makes a great deal of sense, but the truth is, unless me or thee are a fly on the wall I doubt that getting to the root of what happened will ever be revealed.

 

[west_yorks_blade]

'this great club'

Really?

Because of natural location at birth about 50K have been landed with anything but a great club.

Never won owt.
Always sell the best players.
Try to get managers on the cheap.
Try to get players on the cheap.
Ground improvements as cheap as possible.
Ticket office rubbish.
Souvenir shop rubbish.

Yes I do think it’s a great club.

Not without its faults for sure, but I have had some brilliant times following the blades home and away.

The many lows make the fewer highs even more exhilarating.

You can’t beat a full house under the lights at BL. A proper stadium in the heart of the city. Terrific pubs to soak in the prematch atmosphere. And that visceral roar of encouragement and expectation as the team runs out. I could go on and on and on.

But I’ll just say, after being in the doldrums for so long, so many grim years after plummeting to league one, that first season back in the top flight under Wilder was the greatest feeling of pride and excitement in Sheffield United I have experienced in 40 years.

I’m sorry you don’t feel that way. I won’t stoop so low as to question your support, but I guess it’s just fundamentally different to the way I feel.