Midfield tactics

[Handforth bladez]

I'm confused about something , we have all seen berge drive with the ball and go past defenders for fun .....but not enough. Apart from last 10 mins v Birmingham when he was unplayable he routinely now looks for a square or backwards pass....
What is going on, if he has been told to not commit it's very strange

 

[Bladebri]

Fleck and Norwood have told him to pack it in as he is making them look mediocre

 

[Handforth bladez]

If he could play just behind the front 2 with Freeman replacing fleck we might carry more threat. His passing is usually precise and his driving run has a goal threat. Surely worth a try, rather than constantly playing high balls to strikers who get out jumped, like at West Bromwich

 

[A Storm of Blades]

He’s absolutely not a defensive midfielder. The only time he looks anywhere close to a £20m midfielder is when he has attacking licence. I’ve no idea what we’re trying to do with him TBH.

 

[Rodley]

He’s morphing back into Sandra Beige.

(dc_blade)

 

[Handforth bladez]

That's what I mean, play him further upfield, Norwood CDM, Freeman creating

 

[dc_blade]

He’s morphing back into Sandra Beige.

(dc_blade)

He was in full-on Sandra mode last time out.

 

[Blade56]

Midfield tactics, mmmmmmm, summary……… don’t use it

 

[nopigfansintown]

There's a few factors: one, he's not fit enough to play two games in a week. That's a factor with the whole squad but even more so with Berge imo. Hopefully the break will allow him to reset after the demanding schedule and he'll have benefited from all these game. Two, we don't have the capability to regularly kick the ball to him facing the opposition goal. Three, his attitude is poor and he looks like he wants out.

 

[Revolution]

There's a few factors: one, he's not fit enough to play two games in a week. That's a factor with the whole squad but even more so with Berge imo. Hopefully the break will allow him to reset after the demanding schedule and he'll have benefited from all these game. Two, we don't have the capability to regularly kick the ball to him facing the opposition goal. Three, his attitude is poor and he looks like he wants out.

Won’t he be off with Norway?

Be interesting to see if he puts in the same half arsed one paced effort he does for us.

 

[robbiez666]

Berge is, and more importantly wants to be, a deep lying midfield playmaker who plays in a position Norwood or Coutts plays. He's not an attacking midfielder but he does like going on a run from deep. We seem to want him to play further forward but he seems reluctant.

 

[ormester]

I watched Norwood yesterday no pinging the ball backwards passing constantly

 

[Fulwood Blade]

I watched Norwood yesterday no pinging the ball backwards passing constantly

i watched Norwood yesterday as well as numerous others that surround him and the greater majority of passes were meaningless between him and the others.

Luton just sat in - as did Birmingham, as did Huddersfield as they all had a plan to thwart our game style. We are easy to play against and the opposition know it.

UTB

 

[ormester]

Need that special player crafty skilfully look man that type and besic in Norwood role

 

[Cassius Kray]

Berge is, and more importantly wants to be, a deep lying midfield playmaker who plays in a position Norwood or Coutts plays. He's not an attacking midfielder but he does like going on a run from deep. We seem to want him to play further forward but he seems reluctant.

A number of people thought that when we signed him but he's been played in that position mutliple times and never offered much. His attributes don't lead him to playing in that position either. He should be a great RCM for us, lining with Bash/Baldock and bursting into the box. Unfortunately he very often turns down the opportunity to do so. Seems unlikely to me that's because he doesn't want to play in that role, but if that is the case then it's a serious attitude problem and he needs to grow up. I think it's more likely a mix of confidence and fitness. Whatever the reason, as the OP says Slav needs to get to the bottom of it because Berge's a potential matchwinner but not playing like one.

 

[robbiez666]

A number of people thought that when we signed him but he's been played in that position mutliple times and never offered much. His attributes don't lead him to playing in that position either. He should be a great RCM for us, lining with Bash/Baldock and bursting into the box. Unfortunately he very often turns down the opportunity to do so. Seems unlikely to me that's because he doesn't want to play in that role, but if that is the case then it's a serious attitude problem and he needs to grow up. I think it's more likely a mix of confidence and fitness. Whatever the reason, as the OP says Slav needs to get to the bottom of it because Berge's a potential matchwinner but not playing like one.

I'm pretty sure Wilder said he was competition for Norwood when he signed.

 

[ancientblade]

midfield tactics ? wasnt aware we had any

 

[Swannyblade]

Berge is, and more importantly wants to be, a deep lying midfield playmaker who plays in a position Norwood or Coutts plays. He's not an attacking midfielder but he does like going on a run from deep. We seem to want him to play further forward but he seems reluctant.

He could maybe do a job in a double pivot next to a destroyer, but I wouldn’t trust him to sit deep on his own to protect the back line - for a big guy he can’t half look nesh.

 

[Ginger Gnome]

Berge is, and more importantly wants to be, a deep lying midfield playmaker who plays in a position Norwood or Coutts plays.

Doesn't matter what he wants to be, Marcus Rashford wanted to be a centre forward, but every manager he's had has realised he's not very good at it, so gets played on the left of a front three where he's far more effective cutting in on his right foot. Any time he's needed to play through the middle, he's a bit gash.

Berge is most effective when he's on the move, whether that's passing and moving or just dribbling past people, he's poor in his preferred position as he doesn't tackle much and when he stands around like a statue his passing is unambitious at best. Maybe with better people alongside him he could be more effective, but he's mostly just a passenger same as the other two stationary objects that make up our midfield.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Even after Wilder left I think the club hoped that the current group of players would have it in them to win another promotion. To start with it I was surprised Heckingbottom didn't try something different. I wondered if it was due to his respect and friendship for Wilder, then I wondered if the board had suggested he didn't change too much, for continuity reasons. Eventually Heckinbottom made some tweaks, but kept the back three.

Then it was said that we looked for a manager that had experience in playing 3-5-2. PA has talked about the cost of changing managers, and it must be a valid point, especially if the new manager's philosophy is different to the one of the former regime.

SJ has played a bit of 3-5-2/3-4-3, although it's not been the formation he's used the most. We must have been happy if he didn't rule it out at least.

He still went with a 4-3-3 for the opening match. We lacked pacey wingers, but SJ hoped that the strikers would do well in wide roles.

They didn't really, and it's been obvious that creativity and flair is a huge problem for us. With a better pre season the management may have realised this in early July. The midfield isn't dynamic and creative enough to be the main provider of chances.

SJ has turned to Wilder's formation and line ups of late, hoping that a set of players who know each other well would be the quickest way to improved results.

That hasn't helped either. We're no longer able to play like we did under Wilder and a number of players seem to be regressing. It is probably time to accept the journey has ended; stop clinging onto the formula and favourites of the former manager.


We are hoping that 4 or 5 signings will come in tomorrow or the day after to rescue our season and enable SJ to play the football he wants us to play. It seems like a big ask at the moment.

 

[Rodley]

Even after Wilder left I think the club hoped that the current group of players would have it in them to win another promotion. To start with it I was surprised Heckingbottom didn't try something different. I wondered if it was due to his respect and friendship for Wilder, then I wondered if the board had suggested he didn't change too much, for continuity reasons. Eventually Heckinbottom made some tweaks, but kept the back three.

Then it was said that we looked for a manager that had experience in playing 3-5-2. PA has talked about the cost of changing managers, and it must be a valid point, especially if the new manager's philosophy is different to the one of the former regime.

SJ has played a bit of 3-5-2/3-4-3, although it's not been the formation he's used the most. We must have been happy if he didn't rule it out at least.

He still went with a 4-3-3 for the opening match. We lacked pacey wingers, but SJ hoped that the strikers would do well in wide roles.

They didn't really, and it's been obvious that creativity and flair is a huge problem for us. With a better pre season the management may have realised this in early July. The midfield isn't dynamic and creative enough to be the main provider of chances.

SJ has turned to Wilder's formation and line ups of late, hoping that a set of players who know each other well would be the quickest way to improved results.

That hasn't helped either. We're no longer able to play like we did under Wilder and a number of players seem to be regressing. It is probably time to accept the journey has ended; stop clinging onto the formula and favourites of the former manager.


We are hoping that 4 or 5 signings will come in tomorrow or the day after to rescue our season and enable SJ to play the football he wants us to play. It seems like a big ask at the moment.

Good summary Bergen Blade. What are your thoughts on the current level of performance from Berge? Can we deploy him more effectively in a different role?

 

[Bergen Blade]

Good summary Bergen Blade. What are your thoughts on the current level of performance from Berge? Can we deploy him more effectively in a different role?

I think he struggles when he's got little time and space on the ball. He is used to playing deeper and start off attacking moves.

I think it is possible for him to play more advanced as well, but we have too few threats elsewhere at the moment. Our slow build up and few attacking threats enables opposition teams to press us aggressively in midfield. So when we do give it to the midfielders they are often in a poor position to do much with it. Berge, Norwood and Fleck are actually quite composed midfielders, but it looks so difficult for them at the moment. Opposition midfielders are all over them and all three have been giving the ball away in our own half.

Berge has found a little more space in second halves this season, partly because the opposition has tired a little, and then we've seen some of his runs. But even if those runs excites a bit, it takes more for them to lead to goals. Most often there is a fully intact line of defenders waiting to deal with his pass/cross/shot, and he's never been the type of player to provide a lot of assists. We shouldn't expect that to happen either. We should be looking for the missing link, i.e. flair players who can receive the ball from Berge (or other midfielders) and make telling contributions.

An example of a team with a few wishful/linked additions that would give us better balance:

GK
Bogle - - Egan Davies - - RND
Berge Coulibaly
J.Wallace N'diaye Diallo
Mitrovic

​

A workhorse next to Berge, and mobile, creative players out wide and in front of him who wants to get on the ball and do something with it. I think the above team would be more able to carry out SJ's football philosophy.

 

[Snowflake]

I think he struggles when he's got little time and space on the ball. He is used to playing deeper and start off attacking moves.

I think it is possible for him to play more advanced as well, but we have too few threats elsewhere at the moment. Our slow build up and few attacking threats enables opposition teams to press us aggressively in midfield. So when we do give it to the midfielders they are often in a poor position to do much with it. Berge, Norwood and Fleck are actually quite composed midfielders, but it looks so difficult for them at the moment. Opposition midfielders are all over them and all three have been giving the ball away in our own half.

Berge has found a little more space in second halves this season, partly because the opposition has tired a little, and then we've seen some of his runs. But even if those runs excites a bit, it takes more for them to lead to goals. Most often there is a fully intact line of defenders waiting to deal with his pass/cross/shot, and he's never been the type of player to provide a lot of assists. We shouldn't expect that to happen either. We should be looking for the missing link, i.e. flair players who can receive the ball from Berge (or other midfielders) and make telling contributions.

An example of a team with a few wishful/linked additions that would give us better balance:

GK
Bogle - - Egan Davies - - RND
Berge Coulibaly
J.Wallace N'diaye Diallo
Mitrovic

​

A workhorse next to Berge, and mobile, creative players out wide and in front of him who wants to get on the ball and do something with it. I think the above team would be more able to carry out SJ's football philosophy.

A lovely dream but wide of the mark I fear

 

[Revolution]

I think he struggles when he's got little time and space on the ball. He is used to playing deeper and start off attacking moves.

I think it is possible for him to play more advanced as well, but we have too few threats elsewhere at the moment. Our slow build up and few attacking threats enables opposition teams to press us aggressively in midfield. So when we do give it to the midfielders they are often in a poor position to do much with it. Berge, Norwood and Fleck are actually quite composed midfielders, but it looks so difficult for them at the moment. Opposition midfielders are all over them and all three have been giving the ball away in our own half.

Berge has found a little more space in second halves this season, partly because the opposition has tired a little, and then we've seen some of his runs. But even if those runs excites a bit, it takes more for them to lead to goals. Most often there is a fully intact line of defenders waiting to deal with his pass/cross/shot, and he's never been the type of player to provide a lot of assists. We shouldn't expect that to happen either. We should be looking for the missing link, i.e. flair players who can receive the ball from Berge (or other midfielders) and make telling contributions.

An example of a team with a few wishful/linked additions that would give us better balance:

GK
Bogle - - Egan Davies - - RND
Berge Coulibaly
J.Wallace N'diaye Diallo
Mitrovic

​

A workhorse next to Berge, and mobile, creative players out wide and in front of him who wants to get on the ball and do something with it. I think the above team would be more able to carry out SJ's football philosophy.

If you have those players you actually don't need Berge at all.

 

[gordoncharles]

We've heard all sorts of excuses now for Berge's colourless performances: he's homesick, he's lonely, he's injured, his teammates are shite, and above all he's not being played in his correct position.

Are we sure there is a correct position? People who'd seen him before we signed him reckoned he favoured CDM, which makes most sense to me.

Since then we're told he should be attacking more, but 90 minutes had some analysis on him, going back to the 2019-20 season when we were good. I'll quote directly from the article:

"Berge's lack of agility and balance has seen him struggle in a more advanced midfield role, while he's contributed little to nothing in attack. He's registered just one shot in 386 minutes of Premier League action, has an xG of zero, an xA (expected assists) of zero, boasts a poor pass completion rate of 75.9% and averages a mere 2.09 progressive passes per 90 minutes"

It went downhill from there.

Yet still we see every week that some fans think he's our best player.

He might not have been as advertised, or joining us may have wrecked his career. You take your choice. And now re-apply the same to Brewster.

 

[Bergen Blade]

A lovely dream but wide of the mark I fear

Cheaper version?

Blackman
Bogle - - Egan Davies - - RND
Berge Coulibaly
Collado N'diaye Dembele
Sharp​

It is difficult to try fixing the creativity issue while also doing something about our weakness at defensive and attacking set pieces. I'm never too interested in goalkeeper debates, but how about Blackman (still a free agent?) to use his size to deal with crosses, corners and throw ins etc which causes panic at the moment?

 

[Bergen Blade]

We've heard all sorts of excuses now for Berge's colourless performances: he's homesick, he's lonely, he's injured, his teammates are shite, and above all he's not being played in his correct position.

Are we sure there is a correct position? People who'd seen him before we signed him reckoned he favoured CDM, which makes most sense to me.

Since then we're told he should be attacking more, but 90 minutes had some analysis on him, going back to the 2019-20 season when we were good. I'll quote directly from the article:

"Berge's lack of agility and balance has seen him struggle in a more advanced midfield role, while he's contributed little to nothing in attack. He's registered just one shot in 386 minutes of Premier League action, has an xG of zero, an xA (expected assists) of zero, boasts a poor pass completion rate of 75.9% and averages a mere 2.09 progressive passes per 90 minutes"

It went downhill from there.

Yet still we see every week that some fans think he's our best player.

He might not have been as advertised, or joining us may have wrecked his career. You take your choice. And now re-apply the same to Brewster.

Berge clearly struggled to adapt after signing. After that quote was written we beat Tottenham, Wolves and Chelsea while drawing with Burnley, so things did improve a little.

I think it would be nice to see him play in a team that finds some upward momentum before writing him off.

 

[jono_t2000]

According to Sutcliffe in the Athletic, after final whistle at Luton, our assistant Sanz ran straight over to Berge and gave him a bit of a bollocking for not driving forward enough with the ball.

 

[Snowflake]

Cheaper version?

Blackman
Bogle - - Egan Davies - - RND
Berge Coulibaly
Collado N'diaye Dembele
Sharp​

It is difficult to try fixing the creativity issue while also doing something about our weakness at defensive and attacking set pieces. I'm never too interested in goalkeeper debates, but how about Blackman (still a free agent?) to use his size to deal with crosses, corners and throw ins etc which causes panic at the moment?

It may be cheaper but there are three there that I doubt are coming but I like Blackman in goal