No Expense spared at BDTBL

[FleaPitBlade]

If i can buy a single nike football shirt at £14.39, presumably with a markup on from the suppliers then how come SUFC cant buy them in bulk directly from nike for, say, £7? Add a couple of quid for badges and printing and push it to £10.

Sell em at £35. SUFC make £25 per shirt. Fans get a well priced and good quality product. Everybody wins.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

It's simple really.

If you can ship tens of thousands of shirts and other merchandise then you are paid by the big boys to wear their gear

Nike - Man Utd, Barcelona, Arsenal etc.

Adidas - Chelsea, Liverpool etc.

If you can't sell mega-amounts you pay them to supply your kit and other merchandise.

 

[raul]

Are you implying that we aren't and can get out of this deal?

It certainly would be interesting to get some hard figures of what the costs are. I would guess if someone in BIFF could take this on we might get an answer from the club.

I wasn't. I was happy to believe we are locked into a contract, which is why I said "as we're locked in"....

But thinking a little deeper, how does that square with us placing a much smaller order, assuming Linz is itk on that? One would assume that contractually we would need to order x shirts per annum to receive y royalties. Unless of course, Turry is now working at Macron.

 

[super_pig]

>with supply far outstripping demand
presumably because noone wanted them ie because they are crap.. i'm after one of the nike chengdu ones.. bog standard red and white stripes.. no piping no 'diamonds' meh.. no bullshit.. anyone know where to get one?

 

[BladeHearts]

I wasn't. I was happy to believe we are locked into a contract, which is why I said "as we're locked in"....

But thinking a little deeper, how does that square with us placing a much smaller order, assuming Linz is itk on that? One would assume that contractually we would need to order x shirts per annum to receive y royalties. Unless of course, Turry is now working at Macron.

Hearts currently receive £1m per season from Umbro, I am sure that Sheffield United would sell a larger amount of strips, which begs the question why United arent getting a similar deal from a big name/quality brand.

 

[Worksop_Blade]

>with supply far outstripping demand
presumably because noone wanted them ie because they are crap.. i'm after one of the nike chengdu ones.. bog standard red and white stripes.. no piping no 'diamonds' meh.. no bullshit.. anyone know where to get one?

Here you go:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/120741806474

The company that supply Aberdeen FC, Crystal Palace FC, Doncaster Rovers FC, Dundee United FC, Hartlepool United FC, Kidderminster Harriers FC, Notts County FC, Oxford United FC, Southend United FC, Stockport County FC, York City FC, Scunthorpe United FC are called Just Sport Pro Club.

It looks like they set up your online point of sale as well and make it look a high standard (DRFC Club Shop: here)

Also looking at the size of the clubs involved with them, ordering low quantities of stock would not be a problem and shock horror as in the case of DRFC you might even be able to buy a new shirt before you go on holiday or on the Pre Season tour if you do that sort of thing.

But then again why would you decent quality club merchandise at the beginning of the summer at the same price as the poor quality guff United start selling in September?

 

[FleaPitBlade]

Suppose it boils down as thus:

Superior Product = Smaller Profit Margins but more sold.
Inferior Product = Higher Profit Margins but less sold.

I don’t have figures, but I’d put my money on the superior product earning more despite the margins being smaller.

There are those that would pay £10 for a stick of dog shit if it had two cross scimitars on it but even within the warped world of football loyalties, most people will not pay good money for a substandard product.

 

[Darren]

If i can buy a single nike football shirt at £14.39, presumably with a markup on from the suppliers then how come SUFC cant buy them in bulk directly from nike for, say, £7? Add a couple of quid for badges and printing and push it to £10.

Sell em at £35. SUFC make £25 per shirt. Fans get a well priced and good quality product. Everybody wins.

Say United sell 5000 shirts, on your scenario that gives them a profit of £125,000. With the Macron deal, Macron will pay them, I don't know, £500,000 - something like that. United then sell 5000 shirts at £35 each of pure profit (£175,000) for a total profit on the shirt deal of £675,000.

Hence on your suggestion United lose £550,000 if shirt sales remain constant - or in other words an extra 15,714 people would have to be so convinced of the wonders of Nike to but a shirt when they would have not have bought a Macron one in order to make up the shortfall.

 

[FleaPitBlade]

Forgive my ignorance, but what do Macron get out of this deal?

 

[Darren]

Forgive my ignorance, but what do Macron get out of this deal?

5000 people walking around advertising them. It's pretty standard for kit maufacturers to pay football clubs isn't it?

 

[Worksop_Blade]

Tell me something as simple as this would not sell more than 5000:

Also when the pigs went from lotto to puma they sold 7500 home shirts in 2 months, more than they had done in years.

ps. sorry about the size of the image

 

[Darren]

Tell me something as simple as this would not sell more than 5000:

Also when the pigs went from lotto to puma they sold 7500 home shirts in 2 months, more than they had done in years.

ps. sorry about the size of the image

Well all my stats are speculative but, if they are anything like accurate, we have to sell 15,000 of those shirts as opposed to 5000 to make up the shortfall.

Can't see it.

 

[raul]

Say United sell 5000 shirts, on your scenario that gives them a profit of £125,000. With the Macron deal, Macron will pay them, I don't know, £500,000 - something like that. United then sell 5000 shirts at £35 each of pure profit (£175,000) for a total profit on the shirt deal of £675,000.

Hence on your suggestion United lose £550,000 if shirt sales remain constant - or in other words an extra 15,714 people would have to be so convinced of the wonders of Nike to but a shirt when they would have not have bought a Macron one in order to make up the shortfall.

If you don't know, where did £500,000 come from? It's not like you to make stufff up just to suit your argument after all.

---------- Post added at 01:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:49 PM ----------

5000 people walking around advertising them. It's pretty standard for kit maufacturers to pay football clubs isn't it?

Using your figures, it costs them half a million quid to sell 5000 shirts. Have you ever been an Apprentice candidate?

 

[stannyblade]

Tell me something as simple as this would not sell more than 5000:

Also when the pigs went from lotto to puma they sold 7500 home shirts in 2 months, more than they had done in years.

ps. sorry about the size of the image

now thats a shirt I would buy

 

[Worksop_Blade]

You put that Macron pay united £500,000 a year, I remember the deal being a 7 figure sum over 4 years.

So being realistic £1,000,000 / 4

£250,000 a season

United shift 2,500 at £40 and 2,500 at £5

£112,500

Total: £362,500

You cant expect me to believe Macron manufacture 7500 (Home and Away) football shirts as well as give the club a quarter of a million pounds every 12 months for the sole reason that they hope 5000 people walk round with a logo on them?

If that really was the case they would have gone bust years ago.

 

[Darren]

If you don't know, where did £500,000 come from? It's not like you to make stufff up just to suit your argument after all.

---------- Post added at 01:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:49 PM ----------



Using your figures, it costs them half a million quid to sell 5000 shirts. Have you ever been an Apprentice candidate?

Well in 2003 Arsenal arranged a 10 year deal with Nike that gave them £10M a season, so I don't see that United having a deal worth 1/20 of that is at all unrealistic

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/3135523.stm

---------- Post added at 02:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 PM ----------

You put that Macron pay united £500,000 a year, I remember the deal being a 7 figure sum over 4 years.

So being realistic £1,000,000 / 4

£250,000 a season

United shift 2,500 at £40 and 2,500 at £5

£112,500

Total: £362,500

You cant expect me to believe Macron manufacture 7500 (Home and Away) football shirts as well as give the club a quarter of a million pounds every 12 months for the sole reason that they hope 5000 people walk round with a logo on them?

If that really was the case they would have gone bust years ago.

That 7 figure sum could be £2M or £3M for all we know.

All figures are speculative - mine and yours, and we are areally all arguing from a position of ignorance without knowing how much Macron pay SUFC and how many shirts are sold. Notwithstanding this, I really can't see how our having to pay Nike for kits rather than have Macron pay us to wear their kits, on the off chance that loads more people would buy Nike kits, would be a sensible financial decision

 

[Worksop_Blade]

Well in 2003 Arsenal arranged a 10 year deal with Nike that gave them £10M a season, so I don't see that United having a deal worth 1/20 of that is at all unrealistic

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/3135523.stm

---------- Post added at 02:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 PM ----------



That 7 figure sum could be £2M or £3M for all we know.

All figures are speculative - mine and yours, and we are areally all arguing from a position of ignorance without knowing how much Macron pay SUFC and how many shirts are sold. Notwithstanding this, I really can't see how our having to pay Nike for kits rather than have Macron pay us to wear their kits, on the off chance that loads more people would buy Nike kits, would be a sensible financial decision

If it was above 4 million then the club would put 7 seven a year deal not 7 seven figure over 4 years, its playing with wording to make a turd seem decent.

You don't get it do you?

How can a viable business give 1 club at minimum £250k a year as well as 1000's of items of free stock JUST for the return of having people wear a 2cm x 6cm logo on their body?

That's like a double glazing company redoing every window and door in your house for free as well as giving you £10,000 just so they can say your house has their windows!

They give us 5000 shirts for free just shirts not counting everything else yet as well as £250k a year minimum

They give WHUFC (guestimate) 10,000 shirts for free as well as £500k a year (big club etc)

They Give LUFC (again Guestimate) 10,000 shirts for free and £500k (big Club first in UK to have macron)

Charlton 5000 shirts for £0 and 250k (same as us)

Thats 2,000,000 a year before we count the stock on 4 teams then they have all the foreign teams etc

They don't do it for free.

 

[FleaPitBlade]

Sneak preview of next weeks episode of The Apprentice.....

Lord Sugar, I paid SUFC £2,000,000. This gives us sole rights to manufacture all their sportswear and replica shirts.

Good work Dazzler, how much are they paying us for the merchandise that they are now contractually bound to purchase?

Nothing.

 

[raul]

384756 points Tickler

 

[Darren]

If it was above 4 million then the club would put 7 seven a year deal not 7 seven figure over 4 years, its playing with wording to make a turd seem decent.

You don't get it do you?

How can a viable business give 1 club at minimum £250k a year as well as 1000's of items of free stock JUST for the return of having people wear a 2cm x 6cm logo on their body?

That's like a double glazing company redoing every window and door in your house for free as well as giving you £10,000 just so they can say your house has their windows!

They give us 5000 shirts for free just shirts not counting everything else yet as well as £250k a year minimum

They give WHUFC (guestimate) 10,000 shirts for free as well as £500k a year (big club etc)

They Give LUFC (again Guestimate) 10,000 shirts for free and £500k (big Club first in UK to have macron)

Charlton 5000 shirts for £0 and 250k (same as us)

Thats 2,000,000 a year before we count the stock on 4 teams then they have all the foreign teams etc

They don't do it for free.

I'm lost (and beginning to wish I never got involved in this). Are you saying that Macron give us goods to the value of £250K a year and that's it - i.e. no cash changes hands?

Edit: I think my pea like brain has finally worked this out. Isn't the deal something like this:

1. Macron pay SUFC say, £250K a year for sole rights to manufacture their gear (and I suspect that includes the supply of kit for use by the club itself for free).

2. Macron then sell the kit to various retail outlets including United's club shop (and maybe as part of the deal the club are bound to buy a certain amount of kit)

3. All Macron kit sold in the club shop will have a retail mark up which will go to the club.

ISo if we say that - what £300,000 worth of Macron gear is sold in the club shop (5000 shirts at £40 a go and other odds and sods) - on a very conservative estimate at least half of that will go to SUFC as a retail mark up (http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Th...dcontent/main/2638718762//date/desc/11/s82708)

So in total, the Macron deal is probably worth at least £400,000 to United.

 

[beightonblade]

hey .................... yer just wunder why with all McCabes connections in the world he's not out sourcing at the factories 'in the know' ?

These factories do plenty of overun £3 a shirt for good quality landed UK shud do it !

 

[Worksop_Blade]

I'm lost (and beginning to wish I never got involved in this). Are you saying that Macron give us goods to the value of £250K a year and that's it - i.e. no cash changes hands?

Most likely and is probably the most logical way, then they will skim a % off the sale cost.

What your saying as Presty has so brilliantly put is that macron give us £250k and free merchandise and as the OP states pay for the renovation of the club shop!

What Im saying is that Utd could pay Just Pro Sport Club or whoever £3 for a shirt (guestimate) and sell shite loads more gear and look less like a sunday league team.

---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:57 PM ----------

hey .................... yer just wunder why with all McCabes connections in the world he's not out sourcing at the factories 'in the know' ?

These factories do plenty of overun £3 a shirt for good quality landed UK shud do it !

Get back to the bar.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Kit manufacturers operate, from what I can gather as follows:

They pay the club to wear their stuff, and then take a bigger cut of profit made on sales, clubs get a smaller return on that

or

Club pays them to wear their stuff, club take the bigger cut of what is sold, manufacturer gets a smaller return on those sales.

Simple really, cash up front or steady income through sales, for both parties.


Personally, I wouldn't want the diseased tick that is Nike anywhere near the club. Despite the new cuddly image and their 'all our shirts are made with recycled bottles' I still think they are dodgy as chuff!

 

[Darren]

Kit manufacturers operate, from what I can gather as follows:

They pay the club to wear their stuff, and then take a bigger cut of profit made on sales, clubs get a smaller return on that

or

Club pays them to wear their stuff, club take the bigger cut of what is sold, manufacturer gets a smaller return on those sales.

Simple really, cash up front or steady income through sales, for both parties.


Personally, I wouldn't want the diseased tick that is Nike anywhere near the club. Despite the new cuddly image and their 'all our shirts are made with recycled bottles' I still think they are dodgy as chuff!

Who pays who, I supose, come down to who is the bigger "brand". SUFC are properly bigger than Macron but nowhere near as big as Nike. So Macron pay us whereas we would pay Nike. Probably.

Anyway, something strange has happened to the world since I was a kid. In those days, it would have been terminally uncool to be seen to be flaunting a well known brand label. Seems to be the other way round now.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Who pays who, I supose, come down to who is the bigger "brand". SUFC are properly bigger than Macron but nowhere near as big as Nike. So Macron pay us whereas we would pay Nike. Probably.

Anyway, something strange has happened to the world since I was a kid. In those days, it would have been terminally uncool to be seen to be flaunting a well known brand label. Seems to be the other way round now.

Depends on how you define big in a branding sense i guess.

 

[Darren]

Depends on how you define big in a branding sense i guess.

Sounds like another semantic argument warming up.....

I do it on the basis of "how many people have heard of company x". On that basis the rank must be:

1.. Nike
2. SUFC
3. Macron

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Sounds like another semantic argument warming up.....

I do it on the basis of "how many people have heard of company x". On that basis the rank must be:

1.. Nike
2. SUFC
3. Macron

I would say that's highly dependent on in which country you ask that question.

 

[Darren]

I would say that's highly dependent on in which country you ask that question.

Fair point. In the UK I think the point holds in that Macron are probably more interested in being associated with SUFC than SUFC are interested in being associated with Macron.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I would agree. Sadly i am not in charge of commercial interests at Sheffield United.

I would also posit that SUFC are far more interested in getting a good deal out of Macron than they are in giving fans quality sports goods.

I think they need to sort their priorities out.

 

[blade too long]

Tell me something as simple as this would not sell more than 5000:

Also when the pigs went from lotto to puma they sold 7500 home shirts in 2 months, more than they had done in years.

ps. sorry about the size of the image

yes but the fact its got a nike symbol doesnt make it any better than any weve had,
why is it automatically better because it has an american tick on it, or 3 german stripes

http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Sheffield_United/Sheffield_United.htm

In fact the trade name never appeared till the eighties and marketing men

---------- Post added at 05:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:13 PM ----------

I would agree. Sadly i am not in charge of commercial interests at Sheffield United.

I would also posit that SUFC are far more interested in getting a good deal out of Macron than they are in giving fans quality sports goods.

I think they need to sort their priorities out.

which one is the biggest piority , its a business and a business is about making money
and quality sports gear
its very argueable what constitutes it , nike and adidas spend mega millions on advertising, the last nike ad was reportedly 250 million quid , so obviously they are ripping people off too if they can afford that

just a plain shirt suffices