Wage bill

[diplomat]

Seth mentioned on Radio Sheffield this morning that our wage bill was higher than he had imagined, around the £12 million mark. Without wanting to go into the massive mismanagement of that substantial budget - does anyone know where that would put us in a league table of budgets? i.e. Top would be the team with the biggest budget.

 

[Big Mart]

Seth's a prick.

 

[lenners]

Why's Seth 'imagining' anything about our wage bill?
Hasn't he been in a pretty good position for several years not to have to use his imagination to produce a figure?

 

[Micalijo]

I would say it is in top 6 of the division.

People will say it is 'utter rubbish, offer proof etc etc, show me P60's, could be £4m for all we know' but it just highlights the disgrace that is relegation.

 

[lenners]

I would say it is in top 6 of the division.

People will say it is 'utter rubbish, offer proof etc etc, show me P60's, could be £4m for all we know' but it just highlights the disgrace that is relegation.

I think the wage bill will have been detailed to a degree in the last accounts.

 

[Deleted member 2102]

Its typical United. Football success is driven by wages paid (according to a recent statistical study) and not other factors such as transfer fees paid or player turnover etc. The only other statistical driver of footballing success that trumps wages paid must be "if it can go wrong for the Blades then it will do".

 

[Balham]

Probably upper part of the middle third. I'd put QPR, Forest, Middlesbrough, Cardiff, Bristol City and Leeds at the top; then us, Reading, Norwich, Swansea, Ipswich and Hull.

We've not helped ourselves by blowing huge amounts of money on Britton (gone), Nosworthy (gone), Evans (probably gone), Cresswell (thanks Kevin!), Montgomery (likely to go), Quinn and Henderson.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Its typical United. Football success is driven by wages paid (according to a recent statistical study) and not other factors such as transfer fees paid or player turnover etc. The only other statistical driver of footballing success that trumps wages paid must be "if it can go wrong for the Blades then it will do".

But does the study say that the more you pay your average players, the better the team will do?

 

[Balham]

I think the wage bill will have been detailed to a degree in the last accounts.

That was for the year ended June 2010; not this season.

 

[Deleted member 2102]

But does the study say that the more you pay your average players, the better the team will do?

It is silent on this and the more important issue of not paying your shit players loads of money.

 

[lenners]

That was for the year ended June 2010; not this season.

Thanks for that, I hadn't realised.
The point was that information about our wage bill is out there - and we can make educated guesses about what it is now.

 

[SteelCity Blade]

I would estimate that its at least £10M a year, but I imagine it is extremely top heavy - with the likes of Evans, Henderson, Monty, Morgs and Simonsen making up about half of it. Remember we have a very small squad as well. I imagine the extra 2 or 3 million on top of that is likely to be from the loan players we've had (including those who have gone back).

What the club should be doing at the start of a season is assembling a squad of its own players within a budget. If the budget is maxed then there is no room for further signings or loanees. If the manager wishes to leave space for a new permanent or loan signing later in the season then he should be advised to bring the bill under budget.

I know its easier said than done when we have big earners on the books but once they've stripped it down this would be the simplest method. By sticking to it there can be no argument and everyone knows what the rules are.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Last season's wage bill was around £14M and the fourth highest in The Championship.
If it's still at £12M, I would guess that still leaves us around 6th or 7th highest overall.

http://www.s24su.com/showthread.php...p-McCabe-Full-Transcript&highlight=Transcript

 

[Jonny G]

Comparing wage bills means nothing if some clubs have heavily subsidised loan signings, for example Bellamy at Cardiff! Pretty sure no accounts show a figure of the extra being covered by the Parent clubs??

 

[beightonblade]

All footballers shud be paid on results.

 

[raul]

Think they prefer Thursdays like the rest of us.

 

[Bladesway]

Comparing wage bills means nothing if some clubs have heavily subsidised loan signings, for example Bellamy at Cardiff! Pretty sure no accounts show a figure of the extra being covered by the Parent clubs??

Eh? If your wage bill is £10m then it should show £10m in the accounts. If £2m is subsidised I am fairly sure it has to be mentioned somewhere in the accounts. I can imagine how many holes money would "disappear" down if you didn't have to.

 

[diplomat]

Seth thought we'd got it down to about nine million but apparently it is sitting around twelve.

I think two mill last year was on loan fees. I'd like to know what we've paid this year after the revealing of the amount of loan fees we spent was followed with "and we won't do that again"

Personally, if you were given a £12m budget and could choose how to use it I'd expect a play off spot at the minimum. I think the problem we have is that a select few earning over their true worth has meant that there is actually little flexibility. For example a six million wage bill target could see us with eight pros and some kids playing for free.

 

[Jonny G]

Eh? If your wage bill is £10m then it should show £10m in the accounts. If £2m is subsidised I am fairly sure it has to be mentioned somewhere in the accounts. I can imagine how many holes money would "disappear" down if you didn't have to.

But the figures quoted aren't a true reflection on the cost of the squads. Cardiff could be placed 7th with an £8m wage bill because that is what they pay (figures I'm plucking from thin air and not quoting as fact) but that's due to loan deals not being paid by them but the other clubs. Bellamy would cost them £3-4m extra on his own and he's not the only loan player that they aren't paying 100% themselves I've imagine. Leicester possibly are the same, although I did hear they were paying all of their loan player salaries too - so who knows!?!

If we've entered into our deals saying we'd pay all the wages then on a table comparing salaries drawn from accounts we would look like our team should be better. But Cardiff would be in possession of players whose salaries total a lot more. Does this explain my point better?

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Perhaps in terms of what we can expect to trim then, we should be looking at what the going rate for wage bills in League 1 is. Huddersfield, Southampton and Wednesday are often reported as having the highest wage bills in the division. Southampton have just posted a £7.7m loss for the year to 30th June 2010. Their wage bill is reportedly £10.9m.

 

[lenners]

Perhaps in terms of what we can expect to trim then, we should be looking at what the going rate for wage bills in League 1 is. Huddersfield, Southampton and Wednesday are often reported as having the highest wage bills in the division. Southampton have just posted a £7.7m loss for the year to 30th June 2010. Their wage bill is reportedly £10.9m.

That'll be about the ballpark figure for us.
Can't see anything other than McCabe dipping in his pockets to keep us going.

 

[Blade58]

Last season's wage bill was around £14M and the fourth highest in The Championship.
If it's still at £12M, I would guess that still leaves us around 6th or 7th highest overall.

http://www.s24su.com/showthread.php...p-McCabe-Full-Transcript&highlight=Transcript

KM did say it was around £14m at the fans forum if memory serves me correct, with £2m of that paid out for loans

 

[DronnieBlade]

Much debate as to what the actual numbers are.

Far far too much is my honest and only response.

 

[Jonny G]

KM did say it was around £14m at the fans forum if memory serves me correct, with £2m of that paid out for loans

I was going to say we must've trimmed off a fair bit once Noz, Bent, Bartley, Calve & Riise have gone. Add onto that list Wright, Parrino and what looks to be Ched plus possibly Yeates and Cresswell given their vanishing act. Noz, Bartley and Calve combined I would imagine more than covers the permanent Collins and Doyle and whatever your feelings are about those 2 I think it's pretty plain to see that their signings were made on economic grounds to add stability.

 

[Balham]

If you start at around £10m for United players last season then that's probably pretty similar to this season, I would have thought that the ins and outs would be fairly even. The start of season expectations were the same, play-offs as a minimum.

We've then added in Nosworthy (c£1m in wages), Calve (c£500k in wages), Bartley (c£500k in wages) plus the shorter term signings of Riise, Bent, Vokes and all the rest, which would have taken us towards £14m again.

In January, we basically swapped Bartley for Collins, probably saving around £10k per week; and Britton for Doyle - same again. Releasing Calve, Jordan and Wright would have freed up around £25k per week.

I would hazard a guess that we're probably down to around £8-9m now, with further cuts to come once Evans, Montgomery and whoever else leaves over the summer. Starting from a base of £7m next season is achievable but whether that is sustainable I don't know.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Based on what we are spending and what our income is shouldn't McC take some credit for keeping the spend that high?

What it is spent on is another debate.

 

[mpjacko]

I think the club should move towards paying the players in the same way as they do on the continent i.e in Spain, where players are only paid for 2 weeks if they get injured and then the player's insurance company takes over. It means the club would save 1000's poss a million in wages for players who miss most the season thru injury i.e Hendo and Morgan. It would also make the player think more about drinking and their fitness if they have to pay an annual fee. But i know this won't happen as player wouldn't sign for us under these terms. However, the concept is a good one, as i was reading an article by J. Pennant about life in Spain and how things were different.

 

[TommyDazzler]

Good point mpjacko, I also think that an automatic reduction in wages by say 25% should be written in to all players contracts if the club is relegated and wages more closely linked to performance based rather than having such a high basic wage. The problem is as you say, that unless all clubs start to write things like this into contracts no players would sign for us. The power needs to start moving back to the clubs rather than the players.

 

[diplomat]

There is probably no other job where you get full pay for as long as you can't work and you are having zero impact on your employer's business. Imagine (and I do like to cos it's them) how much Kieran Dyer cost the Hammers. Personally, I have to insure myself if I can't work.

 

[MunXy]

i know its totally different, but when you have prem players on 250k+ per week, then wages everywhere will always be as high as agents can squeeze out of clubs.
untill some kind of cap is introduced, wages will spiral ever upwards until we end up like american football (tho they have introduced a club wages cap) where as long as the team wage bill is below a certain level alls good.
if all 92 clubs introduced performance related pay, it would make for better entertainment for the fans but the players and agents wouldnt allow it and as said above the power needs to shift back to clubs not players and agents.
as for our wage bill, if we are paying 9 or 14 million per season, in league one (probably) or even in championship with falling attendances its unsustainable without someone subsidising, but any team that can gamble losing a few million to reach the premiership can then, even if they only there for one season afford much larger salaries for at least a few seasons, thus being able to bring in higher quality players on higher wages/bonus's to perhaps return and make big money again.
all contracts should contain wage drops for relegation and this bollox where players can basically rip up contracts with little or no problems also needs addressing, but players showing loyalty to a club eg hendo saying he would like to stay even in league 1 should be rewarded, same score players like paddy that take wages while banned/injured then leave should have to pay back those wages, player power needs to END.

my 2cents
MunXy