Blades U23s v Wigan

[ComedyClub]

Except for me a premier league debut is the ultimate goal of pretty much most young footballers, and I wouldn’t want mine handed to me in their position because those that ARE there on merit have been or are not at the top of their game. Because even though it’s subjective, I’m very confident the current most hated player at the club (Lunny) would be more competitive and consistent than any of the lads in the 23’s

You've got to be joking with that? I'll admit, if he actually made any effort to be a footballer when on the pitch then maybe. But he's been an absolute disgrace this season, a rock would've been more use than the useless twat.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Except for me a premier league debut is the ultimate goal of pretty much most young footballers, and I wouldn’t want mine handed to me in their position because those that ARE there on merit have been or are not at the top of their game. Because even though it’s subjective, I’m very confident the current most hated player at the club (Lunny) would be more competitive and consistent than any of the lads in the 23’s

Based on his last 6-10 performances I very much doubt it. None if the 3 U23s who've played have embarrassed themselves and as a club we should be looking to progress those who are standing out at their age group.

And consistency isn't what we require for a 10 minute cameo. Just maximum effort and an attempt to influence the game. I still maintain it's a missed opportunity to get adult minutes in pseudo competitive games

 

[Grizzly blade]

We're not talking about throwing the full team in though, we're talking one or two players in positions if not for 30 mins at the end. We're relegated, expectation is at an all time low, so surely now's the time to give some minutes to the youth team that's romped their league, if anything as a way to see where abouts they're all at.

I know what your saying. But would you be saying this if we were plucking a young lad from non league with 30 games down there and giving him 30 mins to see how he gets on?
No, the fans would then be up in arms. If the club could get all those lads out on loan to non league for experience then they would. Some have been there and sent back having not or hardly got a game.
It just seems to me we are judging that team on the fact they won something and saying we should be giving them a go...what’s to lose?!

Well I will tell you what’s to lose...
1credibility.
How does it look to the world of football if the clubs chucking kids in who aren’t anywhere good enough? As has been said...these games may be like friendlies to us given we are down, but they aren’t friendlies. They’re competitive matches, with millions of pounds riding on them.
2. Reputation
Reputations of managers are at stake here. They Chuck kids in and are shown to be miles away they look amateurs, it looks bad on them and unprofessional.

 

[Grizzly blade]

You've got to be joking with that? I'll admit, if he actually made any effort to be a footballer when on the pitch then maybe. But he's been an absolute disgrace this season, a rock would've been more use than the useless twat.

In your opinion, but you’re suggesting we are taking a player with that experience out to try an untested kid. It’s ok getting 10 mins here and there when the games gone...not a lot they can do in that time to cost the game. There’s very little pressure on them and they can go in with no fear.
That’s a totally different ball game to starting a game at 0-0 with the expectation of team mates, manager, coaches and fans to do the specific job they’ve set the team up for in that particular game with the aim of winning. Pressure is huge!

At the end of the day, if Wilder/Hecky genuinely believed they were
Good enough then they would be playing. It’s as simple as that

 

[Grizzly blade]

Based on his last 6-10 performances I very much doubt it. None if the 3 U23s who've played have embarrassed themselves and as a club we should be looking to progress those who are standing out at their age group.

And consistency isn't what we require for a 10 minute cameo. Just maximum effort and an attempt to influence the game. I still maintain it's a missed opportunity to get adult minutes in pseudo competitive games

In theory yes, but for me you still have to be good enough. Not just making up the numbers. And at the moment they are considered not quite ready.
pre season would be perfect for them though, see how many get get a fist team
Squad spot

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

A snippet of historical perspective. One of the themes of this thread amounts to - the first team are very poor, the U23s have done well in their league, so why not try some of the U23s in the first team.
In 2015/16, the first team finished 11th in League One. The U23s played in the PDL National Final. (One step better than where the current crop are at the moment). This first team shit, U23s great thing is nothing new. There are wide fluctuations in U23 league positions from one year to the next. Remember, Sheffield Wednesday won the PDL National Title in 2016/17.
I've got a history of absolutely revelling in the on the pitch success of our Academy sides, but that does not necessarily translate into producing First Team players.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

Those annoyed that despite not being ready or good enough to play, Wilder (correctly) didn’t fill his bench with these lads for games just to make the numbers up.

So CW thought that Maguire, Hackford and Gordon were good enough.

None, it’s opinion. Finally, no, I don’t watch all U/23 games.

Yet you're quick to right off a full squad of players and call others "uneducated" and "cretinous".

 

[EddieColquhoun]

I've got a history of absolutely revelling in the on the pitch success of our Academy sides, but that does not necessarily translate into producing First Team players.

You've also got history of saying that you would never again see an Academy player playing in our first team

 

[Silent Blade]

A snippet of historical perspective. One of the themes of this thread amounts to - the first team are very poor, the U23s have done well in their league, so why not try some of the U23s in the first team.
In 2015/16, the first team finished 11th in League One. The U23s played in the PDL National Final. (One step better than where the current crop are at the moment). This first team shit, U23s great thing is nothing new. There are wide fluctuations in U23 league positions from one year to the next. Remember, Sheffield Wednesday won the PDL National Title in 2016/17.
I've got a history of absolutely revelling in the on the pitch success of our Academy sides, but that does not necessarily translate into producing First Team players.

Dave Bassett once wrote in the Star that one season, the Wimbledon Youth team won matches every week but none of the team made it to the 1st team. In another season the Wimbledon Youth team were conceding many goals every week but Brian Gayle was a member of that squad. He had a long football career!

 

[BushBlade]

n another season the Wimbledon Youth team were conceding many goals every week but Brian Gayle was a member of that squad.

I liked Gayle, but that doesn’t surprise me.

 

[robbiez666]

A snippet of historical perspective. One of the themes of this thread amounts to - the first team are very poor, the U23s have done well in their league, so why not try some of the U23s in the first team.
In 2015/16, the first team finished 11th in League One. The U23s played in the PDL National Final. (One step better than where the current crop are at the moment). This first team shit, U23s great thing is nothing new. There are wide fluctuations in U23 league positions from one year to the next. Remember, Sheffield Wednesday won the PDL National Title in 2016/17.
I've got a history of absolutely revelling in the on the pitch success of our Academy sides, but that does not necessarily translate into producing First Team players.

People don't seem to understand the difference between development and men's football. Huge gap. People forget that Brooks was due to go on loan to league 2 before Wilder was persuaded to have another look at him.

Over the years we've had so many hot prospects who have not even had a professional career.

I've not seen anything to suggest that any of our youngsters are good enough to be regular starters next season.

 

[dazzlingblade]

Depends what your thoughts are on managing people’s expectations.
Without getting into a dull chat about the “everyone can win and a medal for competing” way of schooling in life for the past 25 years I'm from the generation where you have to earn success and be deserving of it, rather than just getting it handed to you through default.
And by raising expectations beyond the eventual reality you are simply making that sudden fall when that reality hits even bigger!

As for dedication/loyalty...I’m not sure what you’ve seen to justify that comment. These lads have no option to be loyal at the moment, and if they weren’t dedicated to it they wouldn’t be where they are as that’s the difference between them and the lads they went to school with and those who were pissing about, getting in bother, getting pissed in the parks and chasing skirt during their teenage years!

Much rather these lads were kept grounded, aware of the reality facing them and enjoy their moment and achievements without unrealistic and uneducated “fans” elevating their actual abilities

Remember our starting line up in the 2011 youth Cup final

Shows how few make it

People don't seem to understand the difference between development and men's football. Huge gap. People forget that Brooks was due to go on loan to league 2 before Wilder was persuaded to have another look at him.

Over the years we've had so many hot prospects who have not even had a professional career.

I've not seen anything to suggest that any of our youngsters are good enough to be regular starters next season.

Yes it's an incredible step up, I'd be pleased if one became a first teamer

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Mantra Time. Academy Football is incredibly important. Not all Academy Kids make the First Team. But all First Teamers will have played Academy Football ... somewhere

 

[MiserableBlader]

People forget that Brooks was due to go on loan to league 2 before Wilder was persuaded to have another look at him.

Not ALL people.
Wilder couldn't tell that Brooks was a player. Right under is nose. He played more for Bournemouth in three months than his time here.
He threw a strop with Adams for some reason and vastly undervalued him as well when selling one may well have been necessary although he did waste a load of money from somewhere later on in the season.
Neither could he tell what DCL was or RND despite both being outstanding consistently at whatever level they played.
Twice basically signing players in Bryan and Lowe to play in RND's position.
Or Toni who he also sold and did not consider worth signing for £5 million last year but this year we're supposed to be looking at his replacement. Yet for some reason but spunked some £50 million plus on McBurnie and Brewster who I will state again are clearly the WORST signing and STUPIDEST signing of my sixty years as a Blade. Throughout which incidentally ALL our best players have basically come through our youth ranks or have been picked from obscurity elsewhere. The fact WE do not utilize them (for any period) is basically why we have been shit for most of the last 40 plus years.
He also wrote off ALL of the young lads including Jebbison and Illman etc when he stated quite clearly that only Hackford was of interest.
Can I just say that throughout most of this season they may be in the third division (well outside the closed shop 'superleagues' that everyone is so keen on) HALF the team have usually been U-18's not U-23's and some of them are considered good enough to represent their country England at that level.
Incidentally Viggers is a Wales international and is about our 5th choice as U-18 striker!
So lets not here any more bollocks about these players not being good enough because Wilder did not spot they could be used.
It's clearly a lot easier to fit someone in up front that at the back although Keane Bryan has basically been thrust in whilst playing very few third division games throughout his years at the club so it is possible in some senses.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

Or Toni who he also sold and did not consider worth signing for £5 million last year but this year we're supposed to be looking at his replacement.

Which Toni?

 

[LudlamBlade]

Which Toni?

?

 

[Wards]

Remember our starting line up in the 2011 youth Cup final

Shows how few make it

Yes it's an incredible step up, I'd be pleased if one became a first teamer



View attachment 112795

8 of that started 11 have made appearances professionally, that's some going whatever the level they ultimately ended up at.

 

[Lowen]

Didn’t the 2015/16 U23 team have the likes of Ramsdale, Whiteman and Brooks playing for them? All regulars at PL and championship level, I’m not expecting the whole squad to come through, most will be in non-league in 3 years as that is just the reality of youth football but equally we could see 2 or 3 of them make our first team.

The games we are currently playing are absolutely meaningless, we can derive some meaning by giving a couple young lads an opportunity. Every club that has nothing to play for come the end of the season does this, I feel we should’ve done it more considering our season has been over for a while now.

 

[LudlamBlade]

Personally I'd rather not expose the likes of Jebbo too much before the end of the season, if there's truth in the reports that Bayern etc are looking at him then I'd prefer to see him sheltered and given a shot next year alongside Brewster, Didzy and Tyler.

If he goes in January he goes in January, but he might have bagged us a few vital goals by then, and they all count if we're serious about going back up!

 

[robbiez666]

I suspect Toney, Brooks, DCL and Adams all committed the same crime of not being workhorses.

 

[robbiez666]

Personally I'd rather not expose the likes of Jebbo too much before the end of the season, if there's truth in the reports that Bayern etc are looking at him then I'd prefer to see him sheltered and given a shot next year alongside Brewster, Didzy and Tyler.

If he goes in January he goes in January, but he might have bagged us a few vital goals by then, and they all count if we're serious about going back up!

Well, given we only have two fit strikers and one is 35 and the other is 12 then he might well get a fair few minutes!

 

[Houso]

Not sure we absolutely have to judge the quality of the current crop by the merits (or lack thereof) of previous youth squads.

If you look at it more long term (in the last 20 years), we've produced some incredible players from our youth setup (yes, I'm not writing academy) who have played top level football for an extended period of time.

As of writing and to emerge from our academy there's one of the most expensive keepers in the world, there's one of the most expensive defenders, there's a right back who is many people's vote for the team of the year, one of the hottest young strikers in the Premier League and a handful of others who will be playing in the top two divisions next season.

The balance of probability suggests that not even half of our under 23 first eleven will make a career in the game, but it's not entirely out of the question. Don't build them up to be shot down, but don't shoot them down before they've even had a chance.

There are some absolute athletes in that setup, and that's half the battle already. It's one of the few bright spots to be excited about as a Blade currently and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens.

 

[Yogi]

Not sure we absolutely have to judge the quality of the current crop by the merits (or lack thereof) of previous youth squads.

If you look at it more long term (in the last 20 years), we've produced some incredible players from our youth setup (yes, I'm not writing academy) who have played top level football for an extended period of time.

As of writing and to emerge from our academy there's one of the most expensive keepers in the world, there's one of the most expensive defenders, there's a right back who is many people's vote for the team of the year, one of the hottest young strikers in the Premier League and a handful of others who will be playing in the top two divisions next season.

The balance of probability suggests that not even half of our under 23 first eleven will make a career in the game, but it's not entirely out of the question. Don't build them up to be shot down, but don't shoot them down before they've even had a chance.

There are some absolute athletes in that setup, and that's half the battle already. It's one of the few bright spots to be excited about as a Blade currently and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens.

This time next year I think we’ll have a much better handle on this crop of players. I expect quite a few to be playing men’s football next year given what they’ve achieved this year.

 

[LudlamBlade]

Well, given we only have two fit strikers and one is 35 and the other is 12 then he might well get a fair few minutes!

Thats a very solid point

Just thought, can Tyler start for us now his loan has ended?

 

[robbiez666]

Thats a very solid point

Just thought, can Tyler start for us now his loan has ended?

Nope, I don't believe so. Loans go to a date not end of season (they could have theoretically been in the play-offs)

 

[LudlamBlade]

Nope, I don't believe so. Loans go to a date not end of season (they could have theoretically been in the play-offs)

Good point. I think I was just being hopeful more than anything