Good Business

[SoccerCynic]

Given that if we are relegated, it is reported that we will lose £4 million in TV revenue alone does anyone still think that selling our best young players was still good business?

 

[Mousey]

Yes. Even if we'd have kept them we'd still be going down.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Given that if we are relegated, it is reported that we will lose £4 million in TV revenue alone does anyone still think that selling our best young players was still good business?

In what alternative reality would Sufc had a chance in keeping them?

Yes. Even if we'd have kept them we'd still be going down.

No chance that either walker or naughton would have cost us as many points as nos has this season.

 

[lenners]

Yes. Even if we'd have kept them we'd still be going down.

Most bizarre post of the year.

 

[Micalijo]

Yes. Even if we'd have kept them we'd still be going down.

What in the name of god are you on about?

 

[Mousey]

No chance that either walker or naughton would have cost us as many points as nos has this season.

No but neither of them could have stopped Collins! That man bleeds points like a gunshot victim.

Most bizarre post of the year.

Of course it was sweetie pie.

In order to be condescending you actually do have to be superior. Better luck next time chump

 

[Coily]

Most bizarre post of the year.

I'm not agreeing with the post, but you must wonder how much worse a state we'd be in financially without these sales?

 

[lenners]

Sorry Mousey, but everything that was said about the damage those sales would do to the club both playing wise but perhaps more importantly to the very heart of the club has come to pass.
It gives me fuck all pleasure to have been right about it and it's desperately sad to see a soulless collection of misfits taking us down as the club falls to pieces.

---------- Post added at 09:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 AM ----------

I'm not agreeing with the post, but you must wonder how much worse a state we'd be in financially without these sales?

You realise how much money we've lost since and how much we're about to lose?
Even if you accept the sale of Naughton, which I did, the sale of Walker - who the club already knew was an even better prospect - was fiscal stupidity.

 

[Coily]

---------- Post added at 09:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 AM ----------

[/COLOR]

You realise how much money we've lost since and how much we're about to lose?
Even if you accept the sale of Naughton, which I did, the sale of Walker - who the club already knew was an even better prospect - was fiscal stupidity.[/QUOTE]

I'm well aware of our losses and wonder whether without their sales - which I hated also - we might have been in even worse trouble. 'A' word maybe? If that had happened then we'd have worse problems than we do now.

To call it fiscal stupidity without all the facts of our financial health at that point is unfair. That is not to say that you are wrong, and I totally agree that the Walker sale was a huge kick in the teeth.

 

[lenners]

It was fiscal stupidity on many levels, not least because he was almost certainly going to be worth much more than £3m - as has clearly come to pass.
Even if we sold him the following year, we wouild have raised at least what we got for Naughton and in all likelihood more.
But the greater damage was the damage done to the fabric of the club which was shredded by the way they handled those transfers.
You can't put a price on that beyond roughly totting up how much we're losing as fans desert, tv income disappears, commercial income plummets and so on.
The sales are not the only reason for our demise but the way they were handled and what they said about the leadership at our club puts them right at the top of the list.

 

[shorehamview]

Short term the sales were extremely good business. A multi-million pound deal for two kids with a handful of first team games between them. Unfortunately the bean counters weren't looking at any future potential beyond bank balances and spread sheets, and a guarantee of money in the bank beat the "almost certain" prospect of them becoming better players, as they both have - Naughton is in the Championship Team Of The Season, and you only have to watch MOTD to see how well Walker is doing.

The accountants and bank managers won't have taken future worth over hard cash though, and we needed the cash. As a short term piece of pure business it was a very good move in that there is no certainty where the future is concerned - either player could have been injured or picked for England just as easily - and the money men wanted the money, which came from the relatively cheap development of two Academy grown players.

If it had been down to the football men then we would probably have kept one or even both of them. It wasn't, and we didn't, nor did we replace them with equals or improvements. Not by a long way.

So as far as a footballing decision, then it was a very bad move. Business wise it can be argued that it was wrong too, in that replacing players with ones of lesser quality means lesser perfomances resluting in progressively lower league positions meaning lower crowd meaning less income, but as a short term deal bringing in millions for players that were developed for relatively cheap sums then it's easy to see why the short term option of the cash was such an attractive one.

It was a gamble. Some you win, most you lose. This one meant that the short term win resulted in a long term loss. To sum it up and answer the title of the thread, Good Business? Yes. And no.

 

[oaklandrdblade]

I seem to remember one or two people who were apparently ITK stating that Walker was the one most determined to leave once he knew Spurs were interested. Now I don't have clue if this is true or not as I don't know him or his family and I would agree that we should have aimed for more, but he had only played five games and football is littered with kids who burst onto the scene and showed great promise but then never fulfilled this. I'm not defending the club as I would have loved to see both Kyles continue their development at the Lane.

 

[lenners]

Nice try Shoreham but this was McCabe's decision, not anonymous bank managers or bean counters.
Most of the debt is McCabe's and all the decisions are McCabe's.
If there was a money man wanting any money it was McCabe, not some fantasy bank managers or bean counters.
And £3m in the scheme of things was and is peanuts.

 

[Coily]

It was fiscal stupidity on many levels, not least because he was almost certainly going to be worth much more than £3m - as has clearly come to pass.
Even if we sold him the following year, we wouild have raised at least what we got for Naughton and in all likelihood more.
But the greater damage was the damage done to the fabric of the club which was shredded by the way they handled those transfers.
You can't put a price on that beyond roughly totting up how much we're losing as fans desert, tv income disappears, commercial income plummets and so on.
The sales are not the only reason for our demise but the way they were handled and what they said about the leadership at our club puts them right at the top of the list.

We broadly agree, as I'd imagine does 99% of our support. It was a horrible deal, but I don't recall their being much anger at the time about the price, only that Walker had been flogged as well. That we've been shortchanged in the deal is now patently obvious, but Walker has come on leaps and bounds since he left and is now the better prospect than Naughton. And that I don't think anyone envisaged that. I still believe that if Naughton had gone to Everton and been a first teamer there he would have had a shout for the 2010 World Cup squad.

I'd still refer to what our financial position was at that point, which you nor I really know. Was the deal forced upon us to remain afloat? It's ludicrous to be thinking in those terms I know, and there in my opinion is where the fiscal stupidity is. We didn't invest in the Prem and we overstretched with a plank in charge back in the Champ and it's been a avalanche of shite for us ever since. Now we'll be at a point where we're almost having to start all over again with a budget the fraction of what it used to be, you'd hope somewhere along the line we'll get fresh leadership because it's clear the trust in the current setup is gone forever.

 

[lenners]

Coily, the club knew Walker was the better prospect.
And the deal wasn't forced upon us in the slightest, we were still buying the likes of Ched Evans around then and doling out silly contracts to the likes of Ryan France.
Even this season, we've paid silly money to loanees in tune with the short-termism that's left us ferked.
But I do think we broadly agree - I particularly agree with your last line.
I can't see McCabe mending that relationship and his enduring silence shows he views us with contempt.

 

[shorehamview]

Coily, the club knew Walker was the better prospect.

I'd like to see actual proof of that please. Not just your say so, actual proper stand-up-in-court proof. I know he's turned out to be the better player, but I'd like to see some proof that they actually KNEW he was the better prospect.

Please note - this does not mean that I agree with the sales. They were a big kick in the proverbial bollocks.

I'd just like proof that the club knew he was the better prospect, rather than one person saying so to try and make it true.

Unless of course the club "knew" in the same way that everyone knows it always rains on Good Fridays.

I'm not trying to take the piss, or be obtuse. I'd just like to see the proof that United "knew" that Walker would be the better player in times yet to come.

 

[lenners]

Naughton more or less picked by default, Walker, who was younger (by a couple of years, is it) brought in by choice at a key stage of the season and performed brilliantly in front of 80 odd thousand at Wembley.
There are other people better placed than me who can probably confirm how highly Walker was thought of at the Lane.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

I - & presumably many other fans - thought Walker looked the better player when both were still with the Blades. Naughton looked good but Walker looked an outstanding prospect. To sell one would have shown a lack of ambition, to sell both was truly disgraceful.

 

[shorehamview]

There are other people better placed than me who can probably confirm how highly Walker was thought of at the Lane.

Ah, but you said "knew", not "thought". Two entirely different animals.

Don't get me wrong, I think the sales were bloody terrible but at no point along the line did I "know" what would happen in the future. I'll leave the soothsaying to Mystic Meg and the other charlatans.

They may have thought he was a better prospect, but to say they "knew" he was a better prospect is like telling me you "know" your lottery numbers have a better chance of winning tonight than someone else's. If that's true then of course the drinks will be on you next week. Mine's a crap fizzy pop, as I'll be driving.

 

[oaklandrdblade]

Naughton more or less picked by default, Walker, who was younger (by a couple of years, is it) brought in by choice at a key stage of the season and performed brilliantly in front of 80 odd thousand at Wembley.
There are other people better placed than me who can probably confirm how highly Walker was thought of at the Lane.

I thought he came into the team after Naysmith suffered his injury? I always thought Walker was a better prospect due to his build being more suited to the modern game, BUT I am convinced we wouldn't have seen him play if it wasn't for the injury.

 

[beightonblade]

Selling assets is a must............. the problem at BDTBL is it follows the Gordon Brown's guide to selling gold !

 

[lenners]

I thought he came into the team after Naysmith suffered his injury? I always thought Walker was a better prospect due to his build being more suited to the modern game, BUT I am convinced we wouldn't have seen him play if it wasn't for the injury.

I know it was following injury but putting an 18-year-old in at that stage of the season spoke volumes.

---------- Post added at 12:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 PM ----------

Ah, but you said "knew", not "thought". Two entirely different animals.

Don't get me wrong, I think the sales were bloody terrible but at no point along the line did I "know" what would happen in the future. I'll leave the soothsaying to Mystic Meg and the other charlatans.

They may have thought he was a better prospect, but to say they "knew" he was a better prospect is like telling me you "know" your lottery numbers have a better chance of winning tonight than someone else's. If that's true then of course the drinks will be on you next week. Mine's a crap fizzy pop, as I'll be driving.

Read what I wrote Shoreham.
I didn't say I didn't know, I said there were probably other people better placed to confirm how highly he was thought of.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I cannot believe how many times this particular argument has been done to death.

 

[SoccerCynic]

I cannot believe how many times this particular argument has been done to death.

Ah yes Highbury, but not at the stage where we were odd on certs to take the drop.

It was not just the sale of the two youngsters....it was the policy of selling good players and buying or borrowing inferior replacements.....failing to replace ageing players.....Monty and Morgan...swapping one Quinn for an inferior version(IMO). There has been a catalogue of imcompetance since the departure of Warnock. My main point was....in nett gain or loss terms where will we be come next season in the lower reaches? Will the millions received for those players offset the undoubted loss caused by our relegation. That short termism means that the team will require a complete rebuild with no guarantee of success. Cardiff were almost in receivership apparently but where are they now because they showed some imagination.....3rd in the league.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Pray tell me, how could the club have hung on to them until now?

 

[bricktop]

At the time McCabe came out and stated the club didn't want to sell, and a lot of it was down to agent influence, but i wonder how much of it was bollocks to hide the real facts.

 

[SoccerCynic]

Pray tell me, how could the club have hung on to them until now?

Were they not under contract

 

[Highbury_Blade]

What contract is worth the paper it's written on these days?

 

[SoccerCynic]

What contract is worth the paper it's written on these days?[/QUO

A contact can only be broken if the parties are all willing

 

[BaldeRunner]

Pray tell me, how could the club have hung on to them until now?

By being successful? By being a team that was challenging for promotion and therefore with serious aspirations accessing the higher revenues available in the Premiership? I'm not trying to be simplistic but the 'good business' argument for me just seems to be smoke and mirrors in United's case. We have been sold that line too many times for me to equate it with anything other than the wretched disintegration of this club. Selling quality and buying crap isn't good business. McCabe's "trust me, I'm a successful businessman" line appears to have blown up in everyone's faces. Then, as now, there seems to be no plan, no direction, no communication and very little hope.